Anyone here hunted and shot elk with their 7x57 and care to relate how things went.

Currently in the process of designing my final custom (read police won't allow any more)and wondering what a 7x57 with a 160gr partition won't do that a 30-06 with 180gr will....

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Anyone here hunted and shot elk with their 7x57 and care to relate how things went.

Currently in the process of designing my final custom (read police won't allow any more)and wondering what a 7x57 with a 160gr partition won't do that a 30-06 with 180gr will....

Personally, a standard 7mm cartridge is a little light for my tastes on elk. That being said, my son got his elk last year with my 7mm-08 using 140 grain FailSafes at 240 yards, he is a better shot than me. You shouldn't have any problems with 160 grain Partitions if the distance is inside of 250 yards. It really comes down to shot placement.

Well, I've shot one Elk, and I shoot my 7x57 all the time, just never did them at the same time. I think the 160 Partition would be an excellent choice for Elk hunting. I'd probably choose to stay inside about 200-250 yards if it was me. I've used the 173 gr. S&B bullet on Sika deer with great effect and would not question the Nosler 160 gr.'s ability. If I was deer hunting with my 7x57 and ran across an Elk that needed shooting, I wouldn't hesitate to do the job. Heck, there were a lot of Elephants killed with the 7x57 back in the day so it would certainly do in an Elk.

If I was going on a hunt "for" Elk though, I'd almost certainly go with one of my '06's or my 338 Win., but that's just me. I used my 338 on the only Elk I ever shot and the 250 gr. SP seemed to be just the right thing to punch his ticket. I'd feel almost as good with a 180 gr. load in an '06. Just a little more bullet weight, a little bit more range and that makes me just a little more comfortable.

By the way, why won't the police let you have any more rifles? Do you have the appearance of a dangerous man or something.

I've shot two cow elk with my 7x57 and 150 grain NP bullets. Both times I got complete penetration behind the shoulders. This is a real small sample. If I decide to hunt elk again with my 7x57 I'll probably use the 160s, just cause I'm moving towards heavier bullets for big game.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Anyone here hunted and shot elk with their 7x57 and care to relate how things went.

Currently in the process of designing my final custom (read police won't allow any more)and wondering what a 7x57 with a 160gr partition won't do that a 30-06 with 180gr will....

Besides the calibre, tell us a little bit more about what you are desinging. What action are you using. What barrel. Wood or glass stock, etc. etc.

Details man, details.

jack o'connor's wife. eleanor, used a 7x57 to kill quite a few elk, and neither she nor the elk (nor jack, for that matter), ever ahd a complaint. i believe that they were also 160's

aside from that....DETAILS!!!!

I just really like my 7x57 but it is too heavy (shade over 9lb) for serious wilderness or mountain use and has a fixed 6x42 which is slightly limiting. I plan on continuing to use it for what it excels at, UK deer in woodland where it's weight helps a steady aim.

I have a ZG47 which I was planning on using for the do everything. Currently a 30-06 which allthough the real do it all calibre is military and banned in France. I don't want a magnum, 270 is viewed as too light for drive hunting, the 8mms are not ideal mountain calibres and if the 7x57 is too light I really can't see 7x64 being much different. I'd like to re run the 7x57 (stamped as a 275rigby) for general use.

Plan was to take the ZG47, rebarrel, mount 3-9x42 in talley QDs, winchester 2 position safety and either glass bed into free floated original stock or a Macmillan.

It's a calibre I can use on just about anything in Europe, would get some use at home (don't like to spend money on rifles that only get used once a year)and generaly float my boat.

I shoot the 7x57mm exclusively, including elk, though I have not taken many, it will more than do the job. With 160 grain Nosler Partition over H414 powder it does a fantastic job. The deal is, as with my CZ 550 American, my rifle does not sit in the gun rack all year and two weeks before the season gets taken out for a shooting session. I shoot it all the time and I know the rifle and caliber very well. If you do that and hit an elk in the boiler room with a well-constructed bullet of say 160 grain weight traveling out of the muzzle at 2,765 fps you'll be plenty good out to 300 yards or so. If you gut shoot an elk from the muzzle out to 300 yards or so, you have a gut-shot elk and I don't care if you are using a .375 H&H, you still have a gut-shot elk. Have confidence in your rifle, your caliber of choice and yourself and know where you are shooting. The 7x57mm will not let you down. Several years ago I was hunting with a buddy who also had a 7x57mm and we were both loaded with 160 grain Partitions. At the time both rifles were Ruger Mark IIs. It was his turn to shoot and we spotted a really nice 5x6 on a hill which turned out to be 327 yards lasered. The bull was watching something going on off to our left. My friend shot, the bull started to walk uphill, his legs got wobblie and he fell over on his right side. The partition had taken out his lungs. There is a hunting guide that I know of around here who uses a .244 Remington and swears by it. He shoots cow elk for the meat for his family. His clients come in with .30/378s, .338s. I don't feel that the .244 is an elk caliber, but he does, and his .244 gets the job done. Enough said. Tom Purdom

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:...270 is viewed as too light for drive hunting...

Well, IF a .270 WCF is too light for the task at hand, I have news for you: So is the 7x57mm! The .270 WCF is actually more cartridge than the 7x57mm.

It always makes me chuckle a bit when someone trots out the 7x57mm for wapiti and gets nods of nostalgic approval and a round of golf-claps. But, let some "tyro" mention the .270 WCF for the same game, and he's supposedly grossly handicapping himself. Don't buy it!

I love both cartridges, but they are really just two shades of the same color.

RSY

Maybe so but one is viewed as acceptable (just) and the other isn't. Seeing as I would be a guest it's best to fit in.

You gotta do what you gotta do, I guess.

But, for your own sake, crack open a couple of manuals. The .270 WCF launching same-weight bullets of essentially the same diameter (.277" vs. .284") a couple hundred fps faster than the 7x57mm should correct any "views" your associates may be plagued by.

RSY

the notion that the .270 is "marginal" for elk is balderdash and poppycock. next, somone will be saying that the .243 is barely enough for deer.

i've got news for you: if you are trying to do an ass-to-heart shot from 500 yards, and expect to do it in one shot, then either of these will be marginal; but if you hunt like a hunter and shoot where you are supposed to, both will be more than enough.

Never shot an elk, but have shot 2 moose with the 7 x 57. Used 160 gr Nosler Partitions. One of them blew up and I just recovered part of the jacket after it shed both the front and rear cores.

WOuld probably use the same load again though. If not th epartition, then the A Frame or Trophy Bonded or Woodleigh (have had very poor performance with Barnes X bullets at the lower 7 x 57 velocities!!) It will kill an elk just fine and I would not hessitate to use it, but I also would not consider it an ideal all-around elk round

Actually, if you load a 7x57 to modern pressures, the performance is only very slightly less than the same weight bullet in a 270. (Requires an appropriate firearm, of course.)

With a 139 grain bullet, the difference is close to 50 fps. Haven't checked the heavier bullets, where there may be more difference than that. In any event, there is very little difference between the two rounds, PROVIDED you are running your 7x57 peak pressure at '06 levels.

The 7x57 has more case capacity than the 7-08, and, at equal pressure, will always exceed it's muzzle speed.

quote:

Originally posted by denton:
Actually, if you load a 7x57 to modern pressures, the performance is only very slightly less than the same weight bullet in a 270. (Requires an appropriate firearm, of course.)

With a 139 grain bullet, the difference is close to 50 fps. Haven't checked the heavier bullets, where there may be more difference than that. In any event, there is very little difference between the two rounds, PROVIDED you are running your 7x57 peak pressure at '06 levels.

The 7x57 has more case capacity than the 7-08, and, at equal pressure, will always exceed it's muzzle speed.

I'm as big of fan of the 7x57 as anyone. While in theory your pressure assumptions seem reasonable in real life it doesn't work quite like that. For reference Ken Waters did two good articles with his typical fact finding on just this subject. The articles are in his Pet Loads book volume one. He tested multiple rifles in both calibers and couldn't get the lighter bullets in the 7x57 to even match the 7mm-08 velocities. Once 160 grain bullets or greater were used the bigger case capacity of the 7x57 gives better velocities.

Next time I get a chance I am going to cut both a 7mm-08 and a 7x57 apart lengthwise. I suspect that the web of the 7mm-08 is thicker as it is a more modern case designed to more modern military pressure levels. One thing for sure is the 7x57 started showing pressure issue signs before it matched the 7mm-08 velocities.

I have listed Waters test figures of velocities from page 209, this was four 7x57 rifles tested against two 7mm-08's:

Bullet: 7x57: 7mm-08:
115 gr 3159 3265
120 gr 3029 3170
130 gr 2926 3038
140 gr 2885 2947
145 gr 2820 2896
(2844 in 23" barrel )
150 gr 2775 2874
154 gr 2710 2750
(2735 in 23" barrel )
160 gr 2681 2726
175 gr 2586 2623

The above were average velocities of the various rifles, and Water's did not test the heavier bullets in the longer barreled mausers which he explains in the text, which was 23" on the the longest 7x57, and 24" on both 7mm-08's. If you factor in the extra two inches into the heavy 7x57 loads above ( about 75 fps ) it corrects the FPS to favor the 7x57 in these loads.

I have a lot of other references and while the numbers change a little the trend stays the same, the 7x57 can't handle the same pressure as the 7mm-08. One exception to all the other data points is the Hornady #4 maunual which shows the 7x57 as the hotter round. Not because the 7x57 differ much with the above table, but because the values and charges are way low on the 7mm-08 loads across the board. Speer, Nosler, and Sierra manuals do not agree with the Hornady numbers, but are consistant with the older Ken Waters writings. Maybe Hornady's Chrono were off the day they tested the 7mm-08?????????

One thing is for sure these are both very good rounds. I still favor the 7x57 and probably always will, but factory 7x57's are almost impossible to find nowdays, hmmm now that a think about it I haven't seen a flurry of nice 7mm-08's either, still a couple with a high end Winchester, and a odd Remington.

My deer/elk load in my 7x57 is 150 gr Noslers at around 2750 fps, and one of these days I will get my loads on a chrono.

shromf....

If you have two identical barrels (one 7mm-08, and one 7x57), on two identical receivers, and are using cases with the same head geometry, the one with the larger case capacity will always be able to produce higher muzzle speeds with the optimum powder.

Physics forbids that it should be otherwise.

I cannot account for Ken Water's results, but I have corresponded with more than one person safely getting 2900-2950 fps from a 7x57 with 139 grain bullets. Anything that happens must be possible.

Also, if you look at Alliant's 139 grain data, RL19 gets you 2835 fps at 49 KPSI. I have done enough actual pressure measurements to know that in this size case, and at these pressure levels, an additional grain of powder is ROUGHLY 3 KPSI and 65 fps. So an additional 2 grains is going to put you at 55 KPSI (very conservative) and 2965 fps. You don't even have to go up to the 65 KPSI allowed by SAAMI for the 270.

I'm just waiting for the stock to come in for my new 7x57. When I get it, I'll do pressure vs. speed tests for it, and report them here. I will be astonished if 2900 fps is not safely attainable for the 139 grainers, and 2750-2800 for the 160. At that point, we'll have something better than an extrapolation of sub 50 KPSI data.

Denton,

Water's was both methociacal and consevative, of this I am certain. He also was consistant between the two cartidges. He used water measurements between the two cases and found the 7x57 measured and average of 52 gr and the 7mm-08 measured 49.5 gr. So the advantage appears with the 7x57. He also measured that the 7mm-08 case were .0006 thinner adjacent to the head than the mauser cases. The shoulder angle is within 1 degree of each other between the two cases.

One thing he did note was expanded primer pockets on the 7x57 when trying to match 7mm-08 velocities. That is a for sure pressure sign.

Concerning your goal of 2900 fps with that bullet assuming no negatives such as excessive freebore or a short barrel I would say you have pretty good odds of getting your 2900 fps or real close. Your definately on one of the better powders for your effort, but I would keep the IMR or AA 4350 as possibilities. Whether your sucessful in bettering that by much I am sceptical on and please do post your results, as I am always ears on better loads for the 7x57. I will say I have worked with the RL-19 in my rifle quite a bit, usually with the 154 gr bullets and I start running out of case capicity at around 2800 fps. I checked the Alliant sight and they are publishing 51.8 grs of powder with 2835 fps, so case capacity is probably going to be an issue with you also in develping a hotter load.

Let me say I am a huge 7x57 fan so I am all for tweaking this balnace back in favor of the 7x57. In my old age I am wondering if the problem lies in all us 7x57 nuts are working with the same powders over and over ( IMR 4350, RL-19, AA 4350, and IMR 4831 ) and we are just slightly missing the boat so to speak.

Another thing I am certain of the difference between the two with the lighter loads doesn't amount to a hill of beans, I have never felt that 50 fps advantage has any difference in the game fields.

Keep us posted on your efforts

Denton,

On last tip that might help in your delevopment. Norma cases will have around 53 grs water capacity and WW cases will be around 54 grs. That might help some and keep your loads from being compressed. I would skip using Remington or RP cases as these have the smallest case capacities.

Anyway good luck.

schromf...

Thank you for the kind advice. I'm really looking forward to using my 7x57.

I was a target shooter, but started hunting later in life, with an invitation from my son in law to go on a hunt. Not having studied the various options very much, I bought an '06, because I knew it was the most popular caliber. Now I realize that it is no fun to shoot 50-100 rounds of '06 at the range, and it is more gun than you need for 90% of the hunting available. I'm thinking the 7x57 will be absolutely ideal.

Even if I do find that I can run it at 2900-2950, I'll probably back it off a grain. I don't think it is really necessary to wring every last fps out of most guns.... but I want to know what it will do. However it comes out, I'll report my results here.

As a former elk guide all I can say is I'd rather guide someone who can actually shoot a 7X57 than someone who is scared shitless of their 338 Win. That said, it's shot placement 90% of the time anyway.

Execeptions? You bet. If you crawl around black timber like I do to kill your elk you might consider a larger slug with more momentum to take advantage of head-on shots or quartering away situations.(My one and only 7X57 elk I shot in Oregon with a 175 gr Partition face on at about 50 yards and the bullet penetrated into the guts after taking out the heart and lungs.) Currently, I use a 35 Whelen and it works like a charm. In very open areas with long shots possible, 270 works great, I know because I've done it and seen it done many times. The reason the 338 is popular is because it actually does both very well. The problem is that most average shooters don't shoot it as well as a caliber with less recoil. All you guys sit that shoot sub-MOA groups sit with your 338's sit down and take a deep breath, I said most and average, NOT everyone including serious hard core types likely to actually practice.

I have shot about everything with a 7x57, encluding a Cape Buffalo just because he showed up at the wrong time...

I suppose the 7x57 is the lightest recoiling caliber that I would shoot any animal on earth with providing I had the proper bullets..

I am extremely fond of the the 7x57, albiet there are probably better calibers for the job in many instantances...

For elk its a fine caliber but only if you take broadside shots or very slightly angling shots, and keep ranges to 200 yards or less..use the 175 gr. Nosler or some premium bullet of not less than 160 grs....

For take'um as they come shots, I would opt for a .338 Win on elk...In Idahos black timber, the 9.3x62, 375 or .338 is always my pick, as the only shots I get are going North to the Montana line. I can put an elk to the ground with any of those three 100% of the time, not so with lighter calibers..

Haven't shot an elk with it, but shot a kudu, oryx, etc. with the 7x57 all with one shot. I used 160 partitions at 2780 fps. These loads will go 63000 psi in Win. cases with the pressure trace. I've used this load for quite a bit now, and used to load hotter than this with no problems, the pressure trace forced me to back off a bit.