The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 35 Wheelen vs. 358 WinGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Looking for a little discussion..... | ||
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With the .358 W. you would need to get about 50 yards closer for the same impact. That would rarely matter. ??? | |||
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180-225 gr cup and core bullets, I don't think there is a whole lot of difference. But 225gr premiums or heavier bullets, the 258 just doesn't have the room for powder to make it more then a 100-150 yard gun IMO. A 250 or 310 in a 358 win is a lob, not a shot. Probably extremely effective in short range situations though! If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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The Whelan on paper, in the field its probabl a push..I solved that problem long ago with the 9.3x62, it does it all and is the best caliber for a std. action on the 06 size case. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray: Some of us are just American Traditionalists, and therefore go for the Whelen. 9.3X62?? Ok if you like, but for me it's the Whelen. Oh and BTW if I need a heavier bullet than a 250 grain, I'll go to one of the magnums. Jerry NRA Benefactor Life Member | |||
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I chuckle at posts like this. Nosler gives the 225-grain Partition over 2500 fps at the muzzle. Sighted in 2.6" high at 100 yards puts it dead on at 200 yards, with 2114fps/2230fpe at that range. Speer's 250SP gets over 2300 fps at the muzzle, and sighted 3" high at 100 yards is dead on at 200, with 1918 fps/2040fps. This is a "100-150 yard" cartridge?  I regularly load my .338 Win Mag to ~2350 fps with either 200 or 225-grain bullets and have no trouble taking deer or hogs out to 200 yards. I guess some folks believe the hype in the slicks that you can't kill anything with a bullet starting off slower than 3000 fps.... . | |||
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The Whelan is a great gun and I had a Remington Classic in that caliber for many years. It just loved those 250 grain Speers and they sizzle through elk at any reasonable distance. However, I got bored with it and traded it off on a new .338 Ruger Compact Magnum. I like the RCM because is short, light, and handy. My days of climbing mountains in Colorado are over but I sure wish I had this little Ruger back then. I also think Ray is right. The 9.3X62 is a better cartridge than the Whelen. I have two. In one I shoot 250 grain TSXs and the other, 286 grain Woodleighs and Hornadys. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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I chuckle at people who cherry pick one part of a post to highlight something extremely specific that was part of a general over all statement. I was referring to the longer premium bullets. Maybe I should have said SUPER premium bullets...Barnes, Accubonds, Sciroccos...bullets that are much longer then Partitions. And I was also referring to heavier bullets as well. Pulled from reloadersnest - 310 Woodleigh 358 Win 2100 fps. Most of the 250's are in the 2200fps range. Now go back and read again what I said - in lighter bullets, there isn't much difference between the 358 and the 35 Whelen. I said the 358 doesn't have enough room to really play with the heavies. You can't argue that, its just a matter of length of heavy or super premium bullets vs case capacity VERSUS the Whelen. And a 310gr at 2100 FPS? No, that isn't something I'd use more then 150 yards. The trajectory on that thing is going to be a rainbow. Now, read what I said again, what was the last part? "Probably extremely effective". I didn't put the 358 down, I didn't challenge your choice of owning one, and the thread is about the difference between the 358 and the 35. The Whelen holds more powder, and will work better then the 358 with the very long style premiums and heavy for caliber bullets. If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter! | |||
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Or a rook vs. a pawn..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I would confidently use the .358win-200gnTipped TSX-BT out to 250yd....pending the size of game and angle of shot. .358win-225-250gn I would take to 200yd...once again, pending SOG-AOS. These days, I would not have a short action.358win[22"],..nor a long action 35whelen[24"].... But instead the .358CRG on the M70-wsm receiver with 23" tube. | |||
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Hal Waugh had Big Nan but also used his 358 Fwt on brown bears. I would use a 358 w/225 NP and be fully confident at all times. It seems that when a person gets himself a 9.3 everyother cartridge in that size range turns into dogshit! I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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I have both, but the Whelen is built on a Mauser 98 and the 358 is a BLR. My Whelen benefits from a 4" longer bbl and it shows it both on the chrony and in the field. The 358 has its perks though. It really shines for rough hiking on steep hilsides and hunting in areas where you typically have shots @ about 200-250 yds. It is light, quick and hits hard within reasonable distance. The Whelen is just a fabulous round and is definatley more versatile. It is easily a 300 yd elk round pushing a 225 gn slug @ 2650 fs. I am swaging my own .358 slugs, but the 225 Sierra or partition are great in either one. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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I've had a 358, 35 Whelen, and their less popular step sister the 350Mag. To be honest, with whitetail deer, I didn't see any difference. As far as range goes, the hold over differences really didn't seem to be that much either out to three hundred yards. Where I noticed a difference was in handloading the long heavies, 250 grain unbanded style Barnes and 275 grain cup and core. Here the Whelen gave some opportunities, but to be honest, that was just an exercise. I don't hunt things where they are needed. I currently have a Whelen, just in case I get to go on an elk hunt. For some reason, I always felt the 358 was a great deer cartridge, and I was overgunned with a Whelen or a 350. That's just old gun rag stuff floating through my head. Truth is, deer all fall down when hit right with them. Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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The answer is a 350 Rem Mag  | |||
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+1  | |||
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I, too, solved the same problem with the 9,3x62! ________ Ray | |||
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I ended up the same place by a slightly different route.  I started with a pre-'64 M70 FW in .358 Winchester which I bought new. Later wanted something to push about the same diameter bullets over a slightly flatter trajectory and which would handily use the then available 275 grain Speer .35 bullets. At that time the only .35 Whelen rifles were all wildcats. Priced those. Shuddered several times. When the willies finally wore off and I could stand still again, I bought a commercial Husqvarna sporter at an auction in England for just over $20 INCLUDING freight (by sea, not air) and duty laid down in Canada. Caliber was 9.3x62. It uses 286 gr. bullets instead of the 275 grain Speers (which are now discontinued anyway). Still have it. Somehow have never needed a .35 Whelen. (P.S. Still have a .358 Winchester too!) | |||
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No no you can't use a 9.3x62 because you won't be able to get ammo for it if they lose yours. I mean this is the argument against the 300 WSM so it must also relate to the 9,3x62. And anybody who thinks the 358 win is a 150-200 yard cartridge needs to look at the ballistics of .358 diameter, 225 grn projectile at 2400 fps from the muzzle. Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Classic . We all need to carry a 30-06 or a 270. | |||
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I would go fro a short action 358 Win every time. I had a Mod 70 with 20 inch barrels that was so well balanced. I still regret selling it. 225 gr bullets at 2350 fps was adequate out to at least 200 meters. It dropped large red deer very quickly. But then I bought a 9.3X62 Simson with octagon to round barrel with full length rib! "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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There was a guy here in Alaska (Anchorage IIRC) that was swaging down the 9.3 (0.366") 286 gr partition to 0.358". Could do the same with the Speer 270 gr HotCor too I suppose. | |||
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You can do it yourself with a Lee push thru die, bottom of the page in the link.... http://35cal.com/bullets.html | |||
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How beefy of a press do you need for this? | |||
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I was a bit courious opening this thread to see how long it would take befor the first 9,3x62 fan chimed in  On post # four Atkinson let the cat out of the sack...it happens every time the .358 calibre in one sort or another are the issue  By the way, I´m a happy owner and user of a M77 MKII in 35 Whelen, and in my neck of woods it is truely a strange bird. Arild Iversen. | |||
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Besides its effectiveness, that is probably one of the big reasons for the 9,3x62's popularity here. Short action = .358 Win Long/Std action = .35 Whelen or 9,3x62, lol.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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It's pretty much just like the difference between the parent cases. With lighter bullets, there's barely a difference between the two, but once you get up into the heavy for caliber bullets, the Whelen offers some advantage over the .358 Win. | |||
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I haven't done the 9.3 to .358", but have done .416" to .410" in my Lee Classic Cast Turret press, it's actually not that hard to do. | |||
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Made a nice .358 Win out of a M24/47 Yugo Mauser. Always wanted it in a Win Model 88, but the collectors have driven the prices out of range. It's a perfect short barreled woods gun. I always wanted the Whelen until I discovered the 9.3x62 and the large number of bullets available for it. For that reason it won out over the Whelen. If I ever come across a 1903 Springfield that has been attacked by a "gun butcher" given a crappy sporter job, for the right price, I'll make my Whelen. Dave | |||
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Looking around my gun room, I find two .358's, a Mauser and a Model 70 Featherweight, two .35 Whelens, a Niedner Springfield and a Griffin & Howe Model 70, one .35 Brown Improved Whelen, a M1917 Enfield, a .350 Rigby Magnum, a single square bridge slant magazine Mauser, and a .350 G&H Magnum, a Model 70. A Rigby 400/350 is also in the works. Then there are three Mausers in 9X57, one an Erfurt, the other commercial Oberndorfs, one a Type S Sporter and the other marked Westley Richards. Each has its virtues, but the one I grab going out the door for whitetail deer is my tried and true .358 on a 1937 Oberndorf action. Oh, and yes, I have a 9.3X62 Mannlicher Schoenauer carbine and a Husqvarna in the same caliber. A 9.3X74R Krieghoff O/U double rifle is also in the offing. | |||
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Just remember, that's one thing the 2nd Amendment guarantees - Choices! And you have a lot! "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I wouldn't hesitate to use either, I love the 35 caliber, and would like to eventually end up with a 358 win, 350 rem mag, and 358 Norma, as I already have a 35 Whelen AI. Extreme Custom Gunsmithing LLC, ecg@wheatstate.com | |||
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I must have been hiding behind the door. My only 35 is a 35 Rem, then we go to a 9.3x57 in a sweet little Husqvarna 46. JJK | |||
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Interesting,,,,,,A solution in search of a problem. BISCUIT never said he had a "problem" -- he asked for a "discussion."  And I did not see 9.3 referenced in his request for a "discussion"  Barstooler | |||
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Pretty obvious, wasn't it +1 Barstooler | |||
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Obvious = NO Oblivious = YES ________ Ray | |||
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Oblivious: Lacking remembrance, memory, or mindful attention Is that a curse or a blessing with the 9.3 crowd? Barstooler | |||
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.350 Remington Magnum 200 gr TTSX TAC 2943 | |||
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And nobody mentioned the 358 Norma Magnum. | |||
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Mixed bag o, blessings, Barstooler.. Speaking for myself, as a member of the 9.3 crowd, makes re-runs and old jokes a lot more entertaining. Unfortunately, in politics, you see the punch line coming and its hard not to cringe.. I,ve often thought a 35 Whelen would be a lot of fun..And for some strange reason, the thought of a Marlin in 35 Remington won,t quite go away. | |||
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I love my Whelen. I have killed more big game with it than all my other rifles put together. I am not ever going to be able to afford to hunt Africa, but if I do I have my 375 Ruger. I like the 375 Ruger so much and the Whelen so much,that my next wildcat build is going to be a 35-375 Ruger. Should be similar to a 358 Norma +. Barstooler | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 35 Wheelen vs. 358 Win
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