I would be interested in getting some guidance on reloading .35 Whelen ammunition for white tailed deer hunting. I know the .35 whelen is a little overkill for most deer hunting but that's what I'm using to hunt in Mississippi. In Mississippi, .35 Whelen is legal during primitive season (so long as it is in a gun with an exposed hammer and single shot breech load). I use a TC Encore during both rifle and primitive season.

The factory loads that I am aware of seem to be much more than I need for most of the shots I am likely to take (50 to 150 yards). So what I am interested in doing is develop a load/bullet combination that is ideally suited for WT Deer. Has anyone developed such a load? If so what parameters did you use such as: bullet selection, desired terminal energy/velocity, etc. Once these ideal performance characteristics are determined, the work starts to develop a load that delivers this? Right? I'm a little new at this so I really appreciate your help.

Jim

The 35 Rem works fine for that job !
I would go to equivalent to 358Win loads - 200 to 220 grain is all you need and drive them at about 2500 fps.
Welcome to the forum

I have killed 3 deer with mine, with 3 different bullets.

The 250 grain Speer through the heart of a big doe, she ran 75 yards. Lots of blood, and the reaction and distance were similar to heart shots with any caliber I have used.

The 200 Grain Hornady spire point hit a big buck just behind the shoulder, the deer almost walking away, just barely quartering. The bullet and shoulder bone fragments made it to the neck where the killing damage occurred. At that weird angle, nothing penetrated the ribcage. I hope not to repeat that shot again.

The other bullet I hunted with was a handgun bullet, Remington's 180 grain hollow point .357. With a near maximum load, I hit a calm deer through both lungs broadside at 100 yards. The bullet exited the ribcage, and the deer dropped dead, like it had been shot with a .270. I don't know if I'll hunt with that load again, but it sure worked once.

I might be hunting with a new whelen in 2011. If it shoots them, I'll likely use the 200 grain Hornady.

For short range woods hunting, I've had good luck with 54 grains of Reloader 15 and a 200 grain Hornady RN bullet. It's about like a 35 Remington and is very accurate in my Ruger 77RS and gentle to shoot. Check the manuals and work up. No Guarntee for the load in your rifle. It does have a rainbow trajectory, after 200 yards.
Bfly

My notes show that I tried Speer 220gr bullets and 33 gr of SR 4759, which did a little over 2000fps, and good accuracy. I think that's about what the 35 Rem would do with that bullet.

Use caution with the SR 4759 powder. It's for reduced loads, and leaves lots of room in the case. That doesn't mean you can just add more powder. Perhaps the load could be worked up a bit to maybe 2200 fps, but do it one grain at a time, and use a cronograph.

Also, the Hodgdon web site shows H4895 with the Speer 220gr bullet, max load of 55grs = 2588fps.

I'll post a link to that site. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

H4895 is a good powder to work with, and the Speer 220gr bullets seem good too. At the ranges you mentioned, they should be great for deer and hogs, and they are some of the least expensive bullets. Great for practice.

Hodgdon says that the H4895 powder can be reduced to as low as 60% of max, for managed recoil loads.

So, you have two ways to go. Work up a load with SR 4759, or work down a load with H4895. Use a cronograph to find the fps you want, and shoot for accuracy too. In my estimation, something between the 35 Rem and the 358 Winchester ought to do the trick. 2000-2300 fps

Hope that helps.

KB

Am I the only one that thinks soft bullets going relatively fast is better for quick kills on small deer? I don't think you need to load the Whelen down, it doesn't kick too bad, and doesn't make a mess of the deer. At least with my small sample (3.)

sierra gamekings, 225 gr... load them aboug 2500... kill anything in NA

Don't listen to Jeff, them deer take lots of killin. I'd recommend at least a 300 grainer!

Of course, I like to shoot the Hornday 200 gr RN in my 9x57. Works plenty good. Must be the round nose?

I think any .35 cal bullet you stick in that case will work.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
Am I the only one that thinks soft bullets going relatively fast is better for quick kills on small deer? I don't think you need to load the Whelen down, it doesn't kick too bad, and doesn't make a mess of the deer. At least with my small sample (3.)

I don't like fast bullets, messes up too much meat. Odd that we have opposite views. I kinda like big bullets at moderate velocities. They poke big holes through the animal.

As I mentioned, I use a 200 gn round nose in my 9x57 even though I typically favor heavier bullets. I do so primarily so I don't confuse them with my 9,3x57. The loads I use are moderate in velocity so the bullet doesn't deform too much.

quote:

Originally posted by memphisjim:
I use a TC Encore during both rifle and primitive season.

The factory loads that I am aware of seem to be much more than I need for most of the shots I am likely to take (50 to 150 yards). So what I am interested in doing is develop a load/bullet combination that is ideally suited for WT Deer. Has anyone developed such a load? If so what parameters did you use
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
Am I the only one that thinks soft bullets going relatively fast is better for quick kills on small deer? I don't think you need to load the Whelen down, it doesn't kick too bad, and doesn't make a mess of the deer. At least with my small sample (3.)

Based on his initial post, Jim seemed to be asking for some reduced loads. He's using an Encore.

If he want's full loads, factory stuff is great.

I think it makes more sense to give the guy what he says he wants, rather than arguing with him -- "Naw, what you really need is full power, light bullet loads, to bloodshot the heck out of um."

KB

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:

The other bullet I hunted with was a handgun bullet, Remington's 180 grain hollow point .357. With a near maximum load, I hit a calm deer through both lungs broadside at 100 yards. The bullet exited the ribcage, and the deer dropped dead, like it had been shot with a .270. I don't know if I'll hunt with that load again, but it sure worked once.

This bullets performance ,as described, sounds about just right. What sort of internal damage was there? What did the exit wound look like? The results of a shoulder shot with the same bullet would be of some interest also. Fascinating ! roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:

The other bullet I hunted with was a handgun bullet, Remington's 180 grain hollow point .357. With a near maximum load, I hit a calm deer through both lungs broadside at 100 yards. The bullet exited the ribcage, and the deer dropped dead, like it had been shot with a .270. I don't know if I'll hunt with that load again, but it sure worked once.

This bullets performance ,as described, sounds about just right. What sort of internal damage was there? What did the exit wound look like? The results of a shoulder shot with the same bullet would be of some interest also. Fascinating ! roger

That post interested me too.....I am surprised more foilks aren't using XTP bullets in their Whelen for close range deer hunting.....but I've never done it.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

This bullets performance ,as described, sounds about just right. What sort of internal damage was there? What did the exit wound look like? The results of a shoulder shot with the same bullet would be of some interest also. Fascinating ! roger

The lungs were a mess, like I used to get with 130 grain ballistic tips from the 270. The exit was the size of a quarter. No heavy bones were hit, which is how I usually aim. Its a hard habit to break after so many archery deer.

Yes, my experiences are opposite others with light fast v. heavy slow. Only relating to whitetails, I have faster kills with light fast. Sorry to drag the discussion off topic.

In my Yankee mind, Mississippi is the land of briers and brambles and places a rabbit wouldn't go. I imagine the mosquitoes as big as hummingbirds consume all but the heaviest blood trails before you can get down from your stand. The two best options in my warped view would be a shot that drops the deer instantly, or a barbed harpoon tethered to the tree. Don't confuse me with facts, I like my imaginary South.

But seriously, a Whelen loaded like a 35 rem couldn't be a bad thing. Guys I hunt with rave about eating the hole, and get good blood trails. Most of the powders appropriate for the whelen can be reduced quite a bit. Starting loads of 4895, 4064, or BL-C2 will work.

Roger, that deer with the 180 was the first and last time I hunted with WC846. It was also the first and last time I burned WC846 without hearing protection.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:

Roger, that deer with the 180 was the first and last time I hunted with WC846. It was also the first and last time I burned WC846 without hearing protection.

It does have a recognizable KaaBOOOM. In fact in my .358x404 IMP it is hard to ignite as well.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

This bullets performance ,as described, sounds about just right. What sort of internal damage was there? What did the exit wound look like? The results of a shoulder shot with the same bullet would be of some interest also. Fascinating ! roger

The lungs were a mess, like I used to get with 130 grain ballistic tips from the 270. The exit was the size of a quarter. No heavy bones were hit, which is how I usually aim. Its a hard habit to break after so many archery deer.

Yes, my experiences are opposite others with light fast v. heavy slow. Only relating to whitetails, I have faster kills with light fast. Sorry to drag the discussion off topic.

In my Yankee mind, Mississippi is the land of briers and brambles and places a rabbit wouldn't go. I imagine the mosquitoes as big as hummingbirds consume all but the heaviest blood trails before you can get down from your stand. The two best options in my warped view would be a shot that drops the deer instantly, or a barbed harpoon tethered to the tree. Don't confuse me with facts, I like my imaginary South.

But seriously, a Whelen loaded like a 35 rem couldn't be a bad thing. Guys I hunt with rave about eating the hole, and get good blood trails. Most of the powders appropriate for the whelen can be reduced quite a bit. Starting loads of 4895, 4064, or BL-C2 will work.

That's a very creative post. Your imaginary South isn't too much different than an August deer hunt in SE Alaska. It's pretty important, for recovery, that the deer drop pretty quick. Following blood trails in the devils club doesn't work for me. It apparantly works much better for the brown bears. I offer little competition there.

Bartache, you know darn good and well what happens with a shoulder shot with a fast bullet. It's a mess, but usually drops the deer DRT. The bigger cal, such as a .358 is just more mess, but on deer no more DRT than a 270.

KB

I've found the 250 Hornady RN with Rel 15 to
be like a sledge hammer.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

That post interested me too.....I am surprised more foilks aren't using XTP bullets in their Whelen for close range deer hunting.....but I've never done it.

in 358 win, 158gr XTPs blow up WORSE than BTs .. of course, that at 3000 FPS ... turns jack rabbits into pink mist

quote:

Originally posted by memphisjim:
I would be interested in getting some guidance on reloading .35 Whelen ammunition for white tailed deer hunting. I know the .35 whelen is a little overkill for most deer hunting but that's what I'm using to hunt in Mississippi. In Mississippi, .35 Whelen is legal during primitive season (so long as it is in a gun with an exposed hammer and single shot breech load). I use a TC Encore during both rifle and primitive season.

The factory loads that I am aware of seem to be much more than I need for most of the shots I am likely to take (50 to 150 yards). So what I am interested in doing is develop a load/bullet combination that is ideally suited for WT Deer. Has anyone developed such a load? If so what parameters did you use such as: bullet selection, desired terminal energy/velocity, etc. Once these ideal performance characteristics are determined, the work starts to develop a load that delivers this? Right? I'm a little new at this so I really appreciate your help.

Jim

I'm just down the road and in the same boat. My hunting partner just buy's the Hornady SUPERFORMANCE 200gr ammo and calls it good to go in his CVA Scout. They shoot good but are very punishing in that little rifle.

I reload for mine. Last year I worked up a load using the Hornady LEVERevolution 200gr grain bullets over a stout load of IMR4064. They are extremely accurate in my H&R Handi rifle. I wasn't real happy with the performance of these on game though. I think the bullet is too lightly constructed but dead is dead.

Most people are choosing the .35 whelen for primative weapons season because of it's increased trajectory over the old "approved" cartridges. I agree with you that most .358 bullets are overkill for whitetail, but you still need rifle bullets to keep your trajectory numbers reasonable, so for me pistol bullets are out of the question. One of my 3 kills with mine last year was a 280yd shot.


The bullet that looks most appealing to me right now if I were to switch is the Hornady InterLock 180gr. I don'think you'll find any factory loaded ammo using it though.

Terry

I subscribe to the "eat to the hole" theory as a Hobby Cook I use all the Bits & Pices BUT here we have a sorta "Rule of Thumb" .....

The closer a Deer is standing to an impenetrable thicket; the further the Point-of-Aim varies from the magic X-Ring behind the elbow to the point-of-the-shoulder.

Dragging big Deer out of thickets isn't my idea of a good time - actually it's easier to drag 'em out since it's a recovery operation rather than the initial wade through the thickets w/rifle (you NEVER know?) to find the beast. But you still have to do it TWICE.

At my age it's alot easier to cut out some shoulder meat. The decision gets made real easy after you've stood in front of a thicket, those with head high stinging nettles!

Even though I don't live in MS, and don't plan on hunting there, I have a similar issue with load development for a 35 Whelen. I do hunt in Texas and Georgia.

Now, I have two 35 Whelens, and the new one is for full power 250gr loads, or 225gr TSX. The old rifle, which is a short carbine, has never shot particularly well. I'm still working on it. I would sell it, but I have a lot of money into it which I'll never recover. The Mauser action it's based on is a very good one, and feeds darn near anything with a std 30-06 case head.

There was all the talk recently about the 35 Rem, and 358, so I decided to try and find some accurate load with a lighter bullet, slowed down a little. The order hasn't arrived yet, but I ordered two boxes each of the 220gr Speer and 225gr Sierra. There's no way I would use pistol bullets out of a 35W for deer, at any speed.

In my earlier post, I tried to answer the question that was asked. However, with the two bullets mentioned above, and H4895, you can settle on whichever shoots most accurately. So, basically I'm recommending what I'm planning on doing for myself.

I agree with TC1, that trajectory is the issue, so most likely the loads settled on will be somewhere between 2300fps, and full blast. But my goal also specifically is to find a load that my finikie rifle shoots well, so I can keep the rifle in service, as a down south rifle.

KB

I shoot the 200 grain bullets with a load of IMR 3031 or RL-15 for deer.
Them pistol bullets are a hoot for coyotes about 180 grains if I remember right.

Guys,

I'm amazed at the great feed back from all of you. One thing I failed to mention, but most of you figured out, I am definitely interested in the reduced white tail load for reducing recoil too.

I've got 200g Hornady SP bullets and H4895 powder. So, I think I'll load up some rounds to deliver about 2300FPS which in the Hornady Reloading Manual, is the starting loads. I can work down from there to about 2000FPS (since H4895 can be used for reduced loads) to have an even more comfortable round to shoot and which is comparable to the performance of the round in max power .35 rem and adequate for WTD.

I guess I now have an excuse to get a chronograph. That will be my next question.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by memphisjim:
Guys,


I guess I now have an excuse to get a chronograph. That will be my next question.Jim

The answer is Oehler! roger

I have used the 200 gr Hornady spire pt in a 35 whelan Imp on whitetail and that bullet certainly opens up.I don't think I would want to use any pistol bullets. If they open up any quicker they would be like a varmit bullet. The Nosler 225 BT was just about perfect in my opinion for full throttle loads.They opened up but did not cause excessive meat damage. Unfortunatly Nosler chose to stop making them when they brought out the accubond at almost twice the price. Since my supply of ballistic tips is almost gone I will have to either try the Sierra 225 gr or pay the price for the new Accubond

I dont have my load notes but I use a 200 gn Hdy spire point and Rlr 15. It yeilds about 2750 fs.

I dont think that is enough velocity to be concerned with excessive meat damage from splattering the bullet. Maybe from a polymer tip, but not a Hdy SP.

Wstrn I took a nice whitetail a couple years ago with my Whelan Imp.I was sitting in a blind watching a trail when this buck can along. He was quartering towards me and was passing through a clear spot. I put the crosshairs on his front shoulder and squeezed one off. That front shoulder was full of bone and bullet fragments and quite bloodshot when I skinned him out.The cats got the whole shoulder. I was surprized at the extent of the damage. I have used the 200 Hornady Spire for years in the 358 Win and have had nothing but good things happen. I am happy to hear you have had good sucess with your 35 Whelan and that bullet. I now prefer the 225 gr bullet in my 35 Whelan Imp.

Look at the new Federal Fusion load in 35 Whelen. 180-gr. Fusion bullet at 2700 FPS/muzzle. Should work well for your application.

My reduced deer load is generally a 200 gr. Round nosed corelokt pushed to 2400 fps using IMR 3031. My rifle is throated a bit long for this bullet and it's best groups are around 2 inches but a deer killer it is. Easy on the shoulder too. When the RNCL's run out I am swithcing to 200 gr. Hornady spire points.

The 225 grn nos part. has worked well for me on large ND whitetail deer, not sure how they would work on smaller deer like southern whitetails or CA Blacktails. I did use 200 hornadys in a 350 rem mag on a 4x4 Ca Blacktail and it work wery well.

Have you considered useing a 190-200 gr cast lead bullet? Loaded to around 2200 fps should prove very effective as a deer load.

quote:

Originally posted by 44magLeo:
Have you considered useing a 190-200 gr cast lead bullet? Loaded to around 2200 fps should prove very effective as a deer load.

I agree. The jacketed version is the Speer 220 gr, which according to Speer, was designed for 35 Rem velocity. At 1900 - 2200 fps it should be good on deer.

I went to the range today, and tested such loads, which were plesant to shoot. The rifle used is rather light, and frankly it's not plesant to shoot with full loads. Simply said, I would rather not. The reason is because IMO, the 35 Whelen is overkill for deer and hogs anyway, and the way to make it acceptable is to add weight to the rifle, or reduce the load. Otherwise, the 308 is a better choice.

The 35 Whelen full power is for more serious work than deer and hogs, IMO, starting with Elk. I see no need to put up with that kind of recoil for deer, unless considering other circumstances such as Sitka deer hunting in the brown bear's domain.

I agree with snowman, that the 35W, with light bullets, full velocity, can be very destructive on the shoulder of a deer. My advice is that if you like eating deer shoulder, don't shoot one there with a 35W, full power load.

With reduced loads, it's about like a bolt action 35 Rem ballistically, which has always been considered an excellent woods deer hunting cartridge.

KB

mimphisjim, I have not had any experience with the .35 Whelen on white tail deer but I have killed many deer with the 9.3x62 Mauser, which is quite similar to the 35 Whelen. My 9.3x62, with open sights is a favorite deer rifle for woods hunting when the weather is really bad and for driving deer where the shots are fast and on the run. I use a 286 grain bullet with 57 grains of RL15 which yeilds about 2400 fps. This is a devasting load for white tail and has the penetration needed if you have to take a now or never raking shot on a really nice white tail. The Hornady Manuel gives several loads for the .35 Whelen which generate around 2500 fps with a 250 grain bullet which should be on par with the 9.3x62 in killing power and penetration. This combination is hard to beat because you never know what angle shot you might get on that once in a life time buck. I have also killed several white tails with the 9.3x74R, which is in the same ballistic category as the 35 Whelen and the 9.3x62, altho just a little slower, and had great results with a 286 grain at 2330 fps. If you are shooting in the area of 150 yards this combination is hard to beat, especially considering the light recoil of these calibers.

quote:

9.3x62 Mauser, which is quite similar to the 35 Whelen.

Steven don't let the 9.3x62 crowd hear this you will get disowned around here.

J_Zola, You are right, maybe I had better get a 35 Whelen and kill a few deer with it before I post something like this. I know what the 9.3 will do and relied on what I thought the 35 Whelen "Should Do" based on the bullet diameter, weight and velocity. If my post causes a big controversy I guess I'll have to acknowlede that I might not know what I'm talking about and get a 35 Whelen and prove it to myself before making a post like this. In any event I doubt there will be much difference in the 9.3 as opposed to the 35 Whelen, when it comes to white tailed deer. Thanks for the warning and I can't tell you how much I enjoy this site and getting the feedback from members who know are true lovers of guns and hunting.

memphisim, After I posted my earlier comparision of the 9.3x62 and .35 Whelen I remebered a project I undertook about 20 years ago which is more in line with the .35 Whelen. It had been so long ago that I had forgotten about it. I had picked up a Griffin & Howe rifle in .350 Rigby Magnum and back then could not find reloading data, dies or even brass for the rifle. Eventually I located some data from a very old edition of Cartridges of the World as a starting point. After a great deal of searching located one box of Bertram brass. I then had the dilemma of obtaining reloading dies. After studying the cartridge dimension I came up with the idea to try and reload this cartridge using what was readily available. I ended up using a set of 350 Remington Magnum dies set real high to neck size only, which worked. With the dies set high they also worked fine for seating the bullets. I was able to work out a load using a Hornady 250 grain bullet with 53 grains of IMR 3031 which gave a velocity of 2400 fps from this rifle. I killed two white tails with the rifle and it did an excellent job. These are almost identical ballistics to what your .35 Whelen should produce. They worked well for me as a white tail load.

The Remington factory 35 Whelen 200 gr PSPCL is plenty for WT deer. The first 4 bucks I took with my M700 Classic were taken with this load.
1988 my first kill with my new rifle was a big MI swamp buck, taken in the neck at 40 yds killing him in his tracks. The 200 gr PSPCL bullet clipped a popple and kept on course (15 feet) and smashed the vertabre, never exiting the deer.
The next morning I shot a spike horn at 75 yds in the "whips". The buck was facing me when the bullet entered his neck. The 200 gr PSPCL bullet didn't exit and I recovered it in the shoulder under the hide.
The next season I shot 2 more bucks, both through the ribs and the deer went down fast with quarter sized exit wounds. I remember following the blood trail of the heavy beamed 8 pt and the 40 yd red carpet trail was amazing against the snow.
In 1990, I switched to the "new" Nosler 225 gr PT and it has taken quite a few deer and a 250 lb black bear.
There is something to be said about the 35 calibers, they are great game killers.

JD338

The9mm( .358 )X 41mm has the capability to safely push a 300 grain gas checked bullet to 2200 fps. That puts it into the energy range of the 30-06. This has been done with a 16" barrel. What can be done with the 9x41 can be done with the 35 Wehlen. Low velocity, large diameter soft bullet and a whole lot of energy.
Powders in the burning rate range of SR 4759 to N-133 should be able to accomplish this. roger

If you looking for Low Recoil and killing deer at 100 yards or so; cast loads work great. I have started using my old Whelen for filling doe tags with peep sights and cast. I have shot one with 245 grain and one with 290 grain. Both are low recoil and accurate. BHH of about 12 on the gas checked bullets and both Killed well. The 245 grain uses 43 grains of AA2015 at around 2100fps and the 290 uses 31 grains of SR4759 for around 1970fps. Your mileage may vary...
My favorite is now the 290 grain for reasons having nothing to do with being practical. Most would prefer the 245 and it's higher velocity and upset on the animal I would guess.
best regards,
dmw

I've been shooting the Whelen for a while now, but have only taken one cow elk with the round. It's not so much I haven't tried to shoot a deer with my Whelen, it's drawing a damned tag from the state to do so. I think that if I had to go with one load only, it would be the 225 gr. Barnes TSX over a stiff load of RL15. The only animal I've taken so far is a cow elk and the results were beyond impressive. Prior to that I was thinking of using the 250 gr. Speer Hot-Core or Hornady Spire Point interlock. Usually, I work up what I call a "working load" and that's what I stick with. My crrent load would probably be overkill on a Whitetail but you'd be sure of a blood trail Those bullets penetrate like nobody's business. Sometimes it's too much penetration. The last time I got a tag for the Kaibab National Forest, we wee asked to use all copper bullets. As lately elk were known to migrate into the area and an occasional bison as well, if you spotted one, you could go to the check out station at Jacob Lake and tell the game Warden who then could let you buy the appropriate tag for the animal as they did not want them in that area. So, I worked up the load mentioned for the Whelen "just in case". Well, I only saw one shootable deer and he was with a bunch of does. If I took the shot, I'd have taken out possibly a couple of does as well and Mr. Buck didn't hang around long enough for me to catch him in a more favorable position. Even if I'd had my .257 Robt., with the TSX bullet it would have taken out at least one unwanted by me doe.
FRankly, I haven't found the recoil from a full power .35 Whelen load to be all that objectionable.
Paul B.