I'm looking for a long range elk thumper, and something to shoot Alaskan Brown Bear and Eland over in Africa.

Is there any reason to choose one over the other??

Thanks!!

The rifle. XCR II is about 7 1/3 lbs. The Weatherby 8-9 lbs.

Both are good,
But for me , the .338 Win will do fine. Most .338 caliber bullets are designed for the win mag velocity.
Long range is 300 yards.
...tj3006

I would pick the 338 RUM because I do not like belts on cases.

Use copper bullets, and you can hunt anything on earth with it.

What Saeed said, plus one.

However, I would build a 338 Edge (FL RUM case)if I wanted a 338 caliber rifle.

I think alot about .338" and have used 4 different 338WM's over the past 30 years.

When I get a thought about "what if" and "more" I usually go past the 340Weatherby, past the 338RUM/338Edge, and all the way to the 338 Lapua. That is truly more.

I could easily be talked into a 338/375Ruger (capacity like the 340Weath), too, except that I don't want to put out the extra money for reamers and barrel replacement on a donor platform myself. Let Ruger make one and sell one 'off the shelf'.

But then practicality sets in and I realize that there is nothing that I hunt that needs over 400 yards and the 338WinMag with the 225gnTTSX does EVERYTHING inside 400, even 500, yards, and does it well with its .514BC. So my son and I just keep ploding along with our 338WinMags. It is an elk thumper and an eland thumper. And it can be a little handier in a standard length action and lightweight rifle. We currently have a Tikka 338WM that is very light and handles non-dangerous game very well.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:
I'm looking for a long range elk thumper,

the 340WMs decades old legend status is based on its long distance Elk thumping ability with the 210NP.
With todays array of more aerodynamic premium hunting bullets, it can only get better.
(I got complete pass-throughs on game at 400yd with the slower .338win and 'housebrick aerodynamics' Win.Failsafes.)

.340WM with something like the GSC- HV monos,.. and you'd have one serious weapon for elk in the distance.

I've owned a 340Wby and a 338RUM and there is no comparison in accuracy.

The 338RUM is one of the MOST ACCURATE rifles I've ever owned.......in fact I've had two, my PH wrangled the first one off me.

I settled on the 231grain Lapua Naturalis load and it is a KILLING MACHINE..............

I'll bet this one is a LR monster!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Aucti....aspx?Item=468184379

There is really no difference between the Lapua and the RUM/Edge... They all top out at 2750-2800ish fps with the 300gr bullets. Maybe there's a difference with the 250gr or so, but they're virtually identical in performance. I did build a couple long throated 338 Lapua AI's that will get a 300gr Berger very close to 3000fps without toasting your brass.

The RUM is a very impressive round, I like the 300 for up to elk, but wouldn't hesitate to use the 338 either.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
I think alot about .338" and have used 4 different 338WM's over the past 30 years.

When I get a thought about "what if" and "more" I usually go past the 340Weatherby, past the 338RUM/338Edge, and all the way to the 338 Lapua. That is truly more.

I could easily be talked into a 338/375Ruger (capacity like the 340Weath), too, except that I don't want to put out the extra money for reamers and barrel replacement on a donor platform myself. Let Ruger make one and sell one 'off the shelf'.

But then practicality sets in and I realize that there is nothing that I hunt that needs over 400 yards and the 338WinMag with the 225gnTTSX does EVERYTHING inside 400, even 500, yards, and does it well with its .514BC. So my son and I just keep ploding along with our 338WinMags. It is an elk thumper and an eland thumper. And it can be a little handier in a standard length action and lightweight rifle. We currently have a Tikka 338WM that is very light and handles non-dangerous game very well.

I shot my brown bear in Alaska with a 338-378 Weatherby. I was pushing a 250gr Swift A-Frame about 3100fps if I remember the load correctly.

For +ten years a 340 Wea was the largest rifle I owned. A tefloned Weatherby Japanese made action, 26" Kreiger cut stainless barrel bedded in McMillan stock.
Seldom shot anything but 250 gr. Nosler partitions in it.
My loads approach 2900 FPS and will shoot into an inch at 100 yes.
It just kills everything I hit with it; FAST!DRT!
I am sure the other options are as good however I will keep my old standby. I have a lot of confidence in that old gun. Not too pretty though..
My go to bad weather, rough terrain, beater!
All the big 338's are versatile big game options.

quote:

Originally posted by matt salm:
There is really no difference between the Lapua and the RUM/Edge... They all top out at 2750-2800ish fps with the 300gr bullets. Maybe there's a difference with the 250gr or so, but they're virtually identical in performance. I did build a couple long throated 338 Lapua AI's that will get a 300gr Berger very close to 3000fps without toasting your brass.

The RUM is a very impressive round, I like the 300 for up to elk, but wouldn't hesitate to use the 338 either.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
I think alot about .338" and have used 4 different 338WM's over the past 30 years.

When I get a thought about "what if" and "more" I usually go past the 340Weatherby, past the 338RUM/338Edge, and all the way to the 338 Lapua. That is truly more.

I could easily be talked into a 338/375Ruger (capacity like the 340Weath), too, except that I don't want to put out the extra money for reamers and barrel replacement on a donor platform myself. Let Ruger make one and sell one 'off the shelf'.

But then practicality sets in and I realize that there is nothing that I hunt that needs over 400 yards and the 338WinMag with the 225gnTTSX does EVERYTHING inside 400, even 500, yards, and does it well with its .514BC. So my son and I just keep ploding along with our 338WinMags. It is an elk thumper and an eland thumper. And it can be a little handier in a standard length action and lightweight rifle. We currently have a Tikka 338WM that is very light and handles non-dangerous game very well.

Matt:

I own both and agree. I also agree with Blair 338RUM that the RUM cases (.300, Edge, .338) are pretty damn accurate. But then again, so is the Lapua.

But I also agree with 416Tanzan that the .338 Win Mag is plenty of .338. I love big .338s, but I use them for target shooting at long range. Not to say I would not use them for long range hunting, but the last thing I shot with a .338 Win Mag was a big elk last fall at 20 or 30 yards. I think that is within the effective range of the .338 Win Mag.

One item above could use a little more precision:

quote:

There is really no difference between the Lapua and the RUM/Edge

The big 338's have the following spread in capacity:
===
fits standard length case 2.50"
===
338 Win Mag
338/375Ruger (plus 10 grains capacity)
338 Norma Magnum (plus 20 grains capacity=338RUM)
---
case 2.72" and longer
---
340 Weatherby (about 10-11 grains more than 338WM)
338RUM (plus 21-22 grains over WM)
338Edge (plus 25 over WM)
338 Lapua (plus 28 1/2 grains over WM)
338/378 (plus 39 grains over WM)

The 338 Lapua has a 7 grain capacity advantage over the RUM. Is that significant? It's probably worth about 50 fps to a handloader. Both the RUM and Lapua are standardized and can be found 'over the counter', though the Lapua tends to be in TAC designs and both are in more expensive rifle lines.

The sleeper in the list above is the 338 Norma Magnum. It is equal to the RUM, but in a standard length case. I specifiy "case" rather than action. The Norma Magnum is designed to be used with a 3.6" magazine so that long range bullets can be seated out far. So the 338NormaMagnum is not really a candidate for a lightweight mountain rifle. It needs a pretty long barrel and will end up a medium to medium heavy rifle like the other 100-grain+ capacity rounds.

Theoretically, someone like Tikka or Ruger could bring out a 338Norma Magnum in a standard magazine for a lighter-weight hunting rifle with more punch than the WinMag, requiring only the "Rigby" bolt face. It would give up a little potential to the RUM because of needing to seat bullets deeper. This would not significantly affect something like the 225gnTTSX but would lose 3-4 grains capacity with the long range 280-300grain bullets.

So for a light, under-$1000 hunting rifle, the 338WinMag is still the long-range elk thumper to fit all budgets. As mentioned, it will do it all to 400-500 yards with the 225gnTTSX. In many ways, the 338WM compares to the larger 338's in the way that the 308 compares to the 30-06. The 308 is a more efficient cartridge by almost equaling the 06 with lighter bullets and fitting in a lighter-weight carrying package.

I do like the 338 calibre, it is a significant step up from the 30 calibre and has a great selection of sleek bullets with added diameter and weight. I would recommend that a hunter decide on how much rifle s/he wants to carry around when considering something over the WinMag.

Tanzan 416,
I believe the 338 Edge and the 338 Lapua are only 1 grain difference.
I wasn't aware there was a 4 grains differences.
I used to shoot a 338 Lapua and now shoot a 338 Edge using Berthram Brass and there is no velocity advantages between the 2.
I am on my second 338 Edge and it is extremely accurate and I am very pleased.

Norseman-very understandable.

When things get down to 1-4 grains difference over 100 grains, the choice of brass may play a major role.

I used the AmmoGuide figures for consistency, but did not cite actual figures because the AmmoGuide algorithm is different for most published measurements. Three and one half grains at the RUM/Edge/Lapua level are not going to make as much difference as the inherent characteristics of any one barrel. AmmoGuide lists the Edge at halfway between the capacities of the RUM and Lapua.

The Lapua, of course, was designed as more of a "shortstack", if 2.72" can be called "short." This has often been cited as related to accuracy in the publication blurbs for the "short magnums" from a decade ago, or the 308 from several decades ago. That is not to say that an extra .2" or even .5" cannot also produce benchrest accuracy.

[quote]The 338 Lapua has a 7 grain capacity advantage over the RUM. quote]

This is interesting...Quick Load lists the case capacity of the 338 Lapua at 108 grs of water and the 338 RUM at 110 grs of water...hmmm?

Ammoguide lists
104.6 grains for the RUM,
108.0 for the Edge,
and 111.8 grains for the Lapua.
The WinMag is listed at 82.7

The nice thing about the 338RUM/338Edge is that they fit in a standard magnum action.

I would not want to use a 338 Lapua rim sized round in a standard action.

Shot placement is everything good accuracy is next the right bullet for the critter your hunting and it will all fall into place I shot my 1st grizz with a 330 Dakota 225gr swift if the bullet passes all the way thru how dead is dead.I now use 250 gr swift Kevin Erickson

Elk hunting can be a physically challenging undertaking.
I have not hunted Elk with a rifle in decades. I carry a bow these days for that quarry. The terrain can be tough.
If I was to use a 338 these days for Elk. Think I might take a Mod 70, 338WM with the barrel bobbed to 24". Add a 2.5X8 Leu. VX3.
You begin getting into these big boomers and weight becomes an issue. Try and make them light and the recoil can be fierce.
A 225 Gr TTSX or Accubond in a 338WM should easily be good to +400 yds.

EZ

quote:

Ammoguide lists 104.6 grains for the RUM...and Quick Load lists it at 110 grains

Published information varies.

I own a 338 RUM, and I went out and measured the case capacity in a fired Remington case as 112 grains of water. This is the value I'll use for my gun and case lott.

I don't have 338 Lapua brass - fired or otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
Elk hunting can be a physically challenging undertaking.
I have not hunted Elk with a rifle in decades. I carry a bow these days for that quarry. The terrain can be tough.
If I was to use a 338 these days for Elk. Think I might take a Mod 70, 338WM with the barrel bobbed to 24". Add a 2.5X8 Leu. VX3.
You begin getting into these big boomers and weight becomes an issue. Try and make them light and the recoil can be fierce.
A 225 Gr TTSX or Accubond in a 338WM should easily be good to +400 yds.

EZ

Right on the money EZ. Not only that, but on my long range .338s I have 5.5x22 Nightforce scopes - not the most agile package in terms of pointing.

My .338 Win Mag is a SS BDL with tuperware stock that I bedded myself with AcraSteel some years ago. Scope varies between 3.5-10 and a 4-14X, both this the B&C reticle. I shoot 225 TSX bullets. Killed a lot of stuff with that rifle.

I have a 338 RUM custom built on a GMA Express Magnum action with a 26" light contour Krieger barrel. It is stocked in English walnut with Kickeez pad. No muzzel brake needed. 9 lbs. I love this caliber. Most accurate of all my fine rifles. Easy to load for. Leupld 1.75X6 VX3. This outfit will do it all. RL22 and 210 or 225gr.

quote:

Originally posted by crf:
I have a 338 RUM custom built on a GMA Express Magnum action with a 26" light contour Krieger barrel. It is stocked in English walnut with Kickeez pad. No muzzel brake needed. 9 lbs. I love this caliber. Most accurate of all my fine rifles. Easy to load for. Leupld 1.75X6 VX3. This outfit will do it all. RL22 and 210 or 225gr.

My 338 RUM is very similar to yours - incredible power and accuracy.

I also have a 416 RUM ("Ultracat") barrel I can put on it and take it to Arica - 6500 ft.# of energy and also very accurate.

Check your eye-relief on the 1.75-6 Leupold. Keep your head up. Unfortunately, you can't put a 3-9 Nikon Inline (with its 5" eye-relief throughout) on a magnum action without getting an extended front ring mount.

I shot a 340 all over Namibia with 225ttsx over rl22 and it absolutely hammered everything I shot with it. I shot clear through a zebra at over 450 and an oryx at 415 with it drt. The oryx was quartering hard and it broke the offside shoulder on the way out. i don't see the belt as any more aggravating than a rebated rim all things considered and I really liked the mark v action. I wouldn't Have any problem recommending the caliber or rifle for long range elk or anything else for that matter. Every time I pulled the trigger the guide went "good grief" it hit everything really hard.

quote:

Originally posted by crf:
I have a 338 RUM custom built on a GMA Express Magnum action with a 26" light contour Krieger barrel. It is stocked in English walnut with Kickeez pad. No muzzel brake needed. 9 lbs. I love this caliber. Most accurate of all my fine rifles. Easy to load for. Leupld 1.75X6 VX3. This outfit will do it all. RL22 and 210 or 225gr.

Sounds like a beautiful rifle.

My own rifle will shoot the 210 Scirocco very well with 93gns of RL-22

And a friend of mine took a 340Wby to Namibia and Damaraland loaded with 225 TSX's.

The TSX's were too hard, one oryx needed three shots to put it down, even though all three shots could be covered by the palm of your hand.

There is one good thing about the Weatherby and that is if you don't load your own rounds then Weatherbys factory ammo is very good. It is also generally very close to the specifications that they list for their ammo.

While I am sure there are good rounds for the others available too you pretty much know what you are getting with Weatherby.

The Weatherbys factory brake is effective from the bench and you of course can remove it and put on a protector while hunting with others.

A regular old 338 Win Mag is a good choice too. Just don't get a Sako 338 lol. Mine was the most aggravating rifle I have owned. I had it worked on and bedded and worked on loads and more work and it was always fussy. I finally sold it and even that took a while in the middle of the biggest gun buying craze maybe ever.

I agree 100% with Blair 338RUM, that the 338 RUM is incredibly accurate! I shoot 210 grain Barnes TTSX bullets through my Rifles Inc. gun and it will literally shoot the same hole every time. The bullets have all been one shot DRT on everything I've shot at including lots of African game. I have a couple left hand Remington LSS rifles (NIB) as action donors and hope that the 375 RUM is as accurate as the 338 RUM. Wonderful caliber and wonderful rifle!

I'm having a Bansner Ultimate Rifles in 340 Wby restocked at the moment, if that might be of interest. Blueprinted Rem 700, Sako extractor, Model 70-type 3 position safety, straight bolt handle, the usual works from Bansner.

a 338rem ultra is comparable to the 338-378Weatherby far more than it is the 340Wby.

AD

338 Norma Mag ???

That said I use an old 700 BDL in 338 Win Mag and love the accuracy and power, but never used it much past 400 yards and that was a mule deer. Elk have all been under 70 yards with it.

They are both pretty much the same thing with different attributes, so choose which features you like better and go for it.