I got to thinking about how my 22" .270s favorite heavy bullet load is the Nosler 160 Partition. As I stated in another Post, it gets 2950fps with 60gr R26 under .75" for 3 shots. That's 7mm Rem Mag territory. The biggest animal I will ever hunt again is elk. cows at that, which, even a big one, is not as tough as a huge rangy Bull. What advantage does my 338WM give me now, compared to this .270/160PT load? Though its not that heavy, the 338 is definitely heavier, has a 24" bbl. It is definitely harder recoiling, especially with its 250/2800fps load. Would I be a fool to just use the .270W and maybe trade the 338 for a foul weather rifle like a 35 Whelen pump carbine? Your opinions please?

Well, I love my .338 WM.

BUT your load will kill cow elk as well as anything if you place the bullet properly.

IMO, the only down side of the 160 may be that a pass-through blood trail with it would not be as conspicuous as with the 338, but if a 160 grain will pass through, you will have a blood trail.

So, you would not be a fool to use a 160 grain .270 NP bullet at 2950 fps(!).

But why a 250 grain bullet with the .338? Why not something lighter? Like a 210 NP? Or a lighter Barnes?

If the weight of the .338 is an issue and you really want to shoot 250 grain bullets which you find abusive are factors and you can't live with them sell it.

Your not foolish at all. Plenty of elk (cows and bulls) have been killed with a 270. A 160 grain .277 will penetrate like nobody's business.

Your 270 and 160 Nosler will kill all the elk you could ever want if you do your part and put that bullet through the vital area. You can rest easy. Do as you please.

Even with a 200 NAB or 210PT...any real world advantage over the 270W/160PT? I haven't even tried any mono bullets in the .270 yet. I'm pretty sure a 140TSx or 150 TSX for sure would "work", if the rifle liked them, of course.

If you shot 10 elk with each I doubt you could guess which one was shot buy what with what rifle.

I have killed cow elk with a 35 remington, 358 win, 8x57 mauser, 308 win, 30-378 Wby, and a 300 WSM and 1 bull with a 338-06 with no discernible difference in reaction.

pump carbine? Your opinions please? [/QUOTE]

.270 fast twist 18" barrel heavY bullets is what I'd be using if I were still able to HUNT as I did in my YOUTH . rogeer
'

Some of you might laugh at this.

For me, the 338 caliber is useless!

If a 30 won’t do it, I would rather use a 375.

I have used rifles from 25, 27, 28, 338, 375 and 416 in Africa.

And the 338 was the one I had no use for.

Too small for the big ones, legally.

And does not offer anything over the lesser ones for planes game.

I have killed every plains game in Africa with various 270 caliber cartridges.

Including sable, zebra and eland.

No problems whatsoever.

quote:

Too small for the big ones, legally.

Here are the legal limit for biggame 154gr at 2000j, so a .270 with a 160gr are perfect. Also a 35w or 9,3*62 are perfect elk, moose and bear choice 270-286gr bullets 70-80% increased bullet weight over the .270w.

Jim, I think your exterior ballistics sound great and the 270 should certainly be adequate for the task you describe. As a reloader, though, I think you are a braver man than I.

Jim,
Welcome to the dark side. I wouldn't think twice about using the 270 on elk with anything from 130's on up.

My longest shots on an eland bull was around 500 yards.

Using a wildcat 270/404 Short I built myself.

Using 150 grain Jensen bullets - similar to the Trophy Bonded Bear Claws.

Both shots were in his shoulder, within less than 6 inches of each other.

One went through, and the other we recovered under the skin on the other side.

He ran a few yards after the first shot, and took a couple of steps and dropped after the second.

He would have died with the first shot.

I guess all of the elk prior to the 1950's to 60's and the advent of all the commonly available mid-bore magnums must have been dying of old age! Magnumaniacs....Sheesh!

Sambar- I got this data from a friends workup on QuickLoad. the 60gr R26 is still right at 64K or under since this rifle has a long throat. My bullets seat out pretty far, also increasing capacity. R26 is evidently "chock full of nuts" pizzazz, ha. The N560/150 load is the same. I never owned a .270 that shot the heavies this well.

I still haven't worked much with the 200NBT nor the 200 NAB in the 338. I do like the rifle, it being a Classic too. I have a spare Bushnell 3200 2x7 to put on it, which is just a few Oz lighter, but makes the rifle a bit handier between the hands. I don't think I would put either rifle in a synthetic as I just like the wood Classic design/style. Neither rifle is all that heavy. It gets down to "how much I would actually use each one"? No one can really answer this but me, ha, but I really do want others opinions.

I want to add that I have given several nice rifles to my SIL, and I still have them available to me, i.e. just want to use one or take on a hunt as a spare. In game rifles, there's a semi-custom .270, 2 BB 94s (.375W & 444) a couple 30-06s, another 35 Whelen AI on a Mauser 98 action, a custom 300 RUM with a Huskemaw dial-em-in and his tikka T3 Lite 7mm Rem Mag. So, I'm not hurting, just trying to decide if I want to use one full time over the other? I have a hip surgery staring me in the face, still putting it off, and along with the other hardware I'm packing, don't foresee any real hard hunting ahead, sure not like I used too, ha.

IME/IMO your over doing it with the 160.
cow elk are not that big.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Knight:
I got to thinking about how my 22" .270s favorite heavy bullet load is the Nosler 160 Partition. As I stated in another Post, it gets 2950fps with 60gr R26 under .75" for 3 shots. That's 7mm Rem Mag territory. The biggest animal I will ever hunt again is elk. cows at that, which, even a big one, is not as tough as a huge rangy Bull. What advantage does my 338WM give me now, compared to this .270/160PT load? Though its not that heavy, the 338 is definitely heavier, has a 24" bbl. It is definitely harder recoiling, especially with its 250/2800fps load. Would I be a fool to just use the .270W and maybe trade the 338 for a foul weather rifle like a 35 Whelen pump carbine? Your opinions please?

Having been up and down the ladder with just about every 338 power range there is, your 338 WM is just another rifle with pros and cons. You seem to have laid out the cons leaning towards not using or replacing it. Your 270 will kill any elk just fine with 130s on up. In fact the way I see it, most of your advantages would come from using the 270.

The 338s always bring out good arguments I’ve trimmed mine up, still use them (338 WM & 340), but have strong arguments as to whether there is any advantage I am living with them.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Some of you might laugh at this.

For me, the 338 caliber is useless!

If a 30 won’t do it, I would rather use a 375.

I have used rifles from 25, 27, 28, 338, 375 and 416 in Africa.

And the 338 was the one I had no use for.

Too small for the big ones, legally.

And does not offer anything over the lesser ones for planes game.

I have killed every plains game in Africa with various 270 caliber cartridges.

Including sable, zebra and eland.

No problems whatsoever.

Actually Saeed, I feel the same way about a .30-06...if a .308 Win isn't going to cut it, move on up to a .300 RUM.

I feel the same way about a 300 magnum. If I am going to live with the recoil of a 300 magnum, then I will shoot a 338 WM or 375HH;Ruger.

I agree the 338 and standard 375 magnum have a lot of overlap with the edge going to the 375. I own 3, 375s my father in law 5 338s. I have a soft spot for the 338, but went with 375.

On topic, I would use a 140 grain bonded bullet on any elk boardside or slightly quarting. If I just had to spine one or take a raking shot I would use a 338 or 375 with a bonded or mono expander.

I would have taken my 270 Win for Red Stag live weight 600 plus this year, but the Outfitter strongly suggested a little more. I do not want to be impolite, so I am taking a 7STW. But left to my own, I would take the 270.

My one elk was 400 pound cow with a 375 Ruger which I used to spine her through the neck.

Point being they all work with in a range envelope, use a good bullet. If you are concerned by less ideal angles on large amped up bulls then maybe then I would suggest a 338WM as a hedge.

My observation and summary of others experiences.

I would use a .338 if I was trophy hunting a bull elk as there are no bad angles: quartering away no problem, going away no problem, elk in timber, etc. I would would prefer more of a broadside presentation with a .270. Both cartridges have killed a lot of elk. I think the .338 gives one more in all aspects if you can shoot it well.

I used the magnums ( 300WM, 338WM, .340W, .375 H&H and a 35 Whelen Ackley Improved) in South Africa and Namibia for Plains Game. Four hunts total. They make a lot of sense for heavy animals at hard angles because A.that's a long way to go to have to pass up a less than perfect shot angle and b. you wound it you pay for it! I've only shot 3 cow elk in total, but for all three had almost perfect broadside shots. 30-06, .375 H&H & 338WM ( I used the magnums to get more field time with them before/between my Africa hunts. I've shot some deer/antelope with 300WMs too, but for same reason. So no, I am fully aware that I don't "need" any magnum for cow elk/big hogs, etc. It was just a nice rifle and I think I was being a bit nostalgic. Reality is I shoot far more coyotes/deer/antelope/hogs anymore. Not even sure if I will ever get back to Texas for any hunts anymore. And I think a 160PT in a .270 has more of a use on elk/big hogs than any deer, ha.

The 270 Win will certainly kill. Use what you enjoying using.
I personally still enjoy my 338 Win with 225 grain mono bullets. I really like my rifle and the cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Knight:
I got to thinking about how my 22" .270s favorite heavy bullet load is the Nosler 160 Partition. As I stated in another Post, it gets 2950fps with 60gr R26 under .75" for 3 shots. That's 7mm Rem Mag territory. The biggest animal I will ever hunt again is elk. cows at that, which, even a big one, is not as tough as a huge rangy Bull. What advantage does my 338WM give me now, compared to this .270/160PT load? Though its not that heavy, the 338 is definitely heavier, has a 24" bbl. It is definitely harder recoiling, especially with its 250/2800fps load. Would I be a fool to just use the .270W and maybe trade the 338 for a foul weather rifle like a 35 Whelen pump carbine? Your opinions please?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ldmay375:
The 270 Win will certainly kill. Use what you enjoying using.
I personally still enjoy my 338 Win with 225 grain mono bullets. I really like my rifle and the cartridge.

+1 I've recently killed caribou with both a 30-06 and a 7mm-08 but the 338 WM is my first love. It just plain works.

quote:

I have killed every plains game in Africa with various 270 caliber cartridges.

Including sable, zebra and eland.

Damn Saeed I've been thinking of another plains game hunt, but if you've killed them all I guess there's no point. Maybe try New Zealand instead.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Knight:
Sambar- I got this data from a friends workup on QuickLoad. the 60gr R26 is still right at 64K or under since this rifle has a long throat. My bullets seat out pretty far, also increasing capacity. R26 is evidently "chock full of nuts" pizzazz, ha. The N560/150 load is the same. I never owned a .270 that shot the heavies this well.

I still haven't worked much with the 200NBT nor the 200 NAB in the 338. I do like the rifle, it being a Classic too. I have a spare Bushnell 3200 2x7 to put on it, which is just a few Oz lighter, but makes the rifle a bit handier between the hands. I don't think I would put either rifle in a synthetic as I just like the wood Classic design/style. Neither rifle is all that heavy. It gets down to "how much I would actually use each one"? No one can really answer this but me, ha, but I really do want others opinions.

Seating your bullet well out would certainly give a bit more powder capacity, Jim, but what model rifles are your 270 and 338?

I glean that the 270 has a reasonably long action and throat, a combination I find elusive in my rifles - some have long-cartridge actions but short throats while at least one has a long throat but an action too short to take advantage of it.

We have a 7600 in 35 Whelen here, too, and I think it is great for big deer in thick forest. One with the plastic stock should be a little more resistant to bad weather, though I don't recall that the steel was stainless. My only regret is that Remington have a history of giving their rifles too-slow rifling to use with handloads using longer than standard bullets. Though you may not see much need for bullets heavier than 250 grains, your use of 160s in the 270 shows you're not immune from pushing the envelope.

Sambar- I purposely sought out two '80s model 700 Classic. My first Classic was a 1982 .257 Roberts. Through the years, I have owned many, many Model 700s, but especially the "Classic" models. Every LA (standard or magnum) has had a long throat, to the best of my memory. I remember pretty good too, for 66, ha. I never had a Model 70 that was comparable. My "best" Model 70s were the ones I had "rebarreled", ha. I knew the Classics had longer throats, as a rule anyhow. I was recovering from a financial hit last two years so had only two rifles. I had found them affordable so went with (a) another 80's Mod 70 FWT Classic in 7x57 and (b) an older Ruger 77 "tanger" in 338WM. I had high hopes for both...they were both junk! Poor accuracy. I sold both one afternoon! I then purposely decided to go back to the Mod 700 Classic. I found the 1980 .270 ( this year has iron sights) first. I would have taken any long action standard round, from 25-06 to 30-06 to 35 Whelen. The .270 showed up. I then began to look for another Classic in 35 Whelen ( owned a couple through the years, really like them) but found this "new" 1987 338WM. It too has a long throat, which I knew I can get them to shoot! And they do too! So, I really like the 338WM and will hand onto it, but I will drop back in weight (those 200 NBT/NABs, and some lighter Barnes) and I am going to search for a slower 250gr load. I love having the "choice" of that 250AB/2800fps load, but I used the 250/35 Whelen Ackley going 2550 for 20 yrs...its a real killer and so would the 338WM be at same speed. And it will be a lot for "fun" to shoot! The 2800fps load, again, is not brutal, this model stock fits me very well, comes straight back and the Limbsaver pad works swell. IOW, I don't "grit my teeth" and put it in a death grip to fire off sandbags, ha. Its just like a 300WM to me, or a heavy loaded 30-06.
I like the lighter weight monos for any caliber ( got some 110TTSX ready for the .270) the 185X and 210xbt in 338/340 and 235x in .375H&H. But for cup n core, I do like the heavier bullets. I guess I got spoiled to penetration from that first 35 Whelen 700 Classic I had reamed to the Ackley. I used that 250x and later just the 200x. The 180xbt was perfection in the 300WM too. But I have also used a lot of Partitions and NBTs, love them too. So, long answer but "my experience" has shown that about 99.9% of the time I can get a Model 700 to shoot well. Rugers & Mod 70s ( I love them both) are just a roll of the dice...for me. I have used pump shotguns all my adult life ( I could only afford single shots growing up, except for one mindlessly brutal kicking 1148 12ga) but pump rifles just don't scratch my itch. I have always chosen a levergun over them. I realized I am not likely to tromp all day in the snow like I used to...so I'll just find a big spruce to sit under and see what walks by! Nah, I'll keep the 338 as I have it set up identical to the .270. Maybe a lighter scope on it some day.

JOC killed dozens of elk with a 270 often using 130 gr bullets. Out to 350 yards the rifle is perfectly lethal.

I’ve only killed two elk with a .270 , both using 150 gr bullets.

Use a bullet with the right construction and put it in the right place = dead elk.

The .338 Win is a great cartridge for use on grizzlies, polar bears, brown bears and walruses, but really not needed for anything else in NA.

BH63

I think we have a unanimity of opinion, but I could be wrong.

I believe nobody who has commented thinks that a 160 Nosler partition @~2950(!) is inadequate for an elk cow.

If I am wrong, I'm open to being corrected. So if there are any naysayers, please speak up.

Yes sir, when I saw the QL data for R26 and the 160NP I was intrigued. I had previously tried R26 in a .280 and I got some really fast speeds, but not the accuracy. I tried it in a .270 BAR/150gr and same thing, great speed but no real accuracy. I was so pleased when this .270 showed great accuracy with both the 150PT and the 160NP. I really want to kill stuff with them, if not the elk, then some big hogs later.
I do appreciate everyone's opinion though, sometimes I can get a bit myopic in my OCD over hunting rifles, ha.

Buffhunter- I tend to agree, overall, with a 338WMs real forte. I do love to mess with handloads though and the lighter bullets have always given me more "use" in magnum rifles. Heck, on those East Texas deer, the 30-06 was considered a "magnum", with the 30-30 being about "perfect", ha. The 6mm Remington in a Mod 742 was considered perfection for a bigger rifle, even though 30-06s/308s were everywhere.

I think the 270 win is capable of anything I would ever want to do with a rifle. I wouldn't hunt a cape buff or an elephant with one but I wouldn't hesitate to go after any of the great bears or cats with one either.

I personally feel there is no real difference in killing power between the mild 6.5s (6.5x55, 260 etc) all the way to the .30s. I DO feel the .338WM offers a step up. To be honest there is nothing i would do with a .375 HH that I wouldn't do with a .338 WM including cape buff etc. The .338 has been used many times for them and by folks like John Barsness and Jim Carmichael and has proven effective with the correct bullet. I think Ray Atkinson has also used the .338 on buff...though id prefer he chime in here.

Long story short...there is nothing in North America I would feel under gunned against with a 270 if I had decent bullets.

I don't own a 270 either...

I'm a sucker for FN Mausers myself pard!

I just returned from a hunt in Nambia. Since we were touring afterward I didn't take a rifle but used the guide's gun. It was an ancient South African Musgrave .270 Win shooting cheap Hornady "American Whitetail" 140 grain ammunition. We took kudu, wildebeests (both black and blue), and oryx with a single shot. And three Hartman's Mountain Zebras with four total shots. Not even one of 21 total head of game of 11 different species came close to being lost shooting with this combination.

I've got nothing against larger guns for this size game and would have taken my .300 H&H if I had used my own rifle, but it wouldn't have caused me to take one more head of game or use one less round of ammunition. By all means take your meat cow elk with your .270 if that is the rifle you prefer.

comparing calibers is a waste of time, too many opinnions and like ass holes everyone has one.

The .338 Win. is the best Mt. elk rifle out there IMO, and I think the perfect union is the .338 along with a .270 or 30-06..

For a longer shot the .338 leaves me all fuzzy and a feeling of success, and regardless of what anyone says it does thump elk a little harder at any range..that only makes since, it shoots a heavier bullet at like velocity, is that so hard to figure..I will hunt with both and have many times..both worked every time, but the 338 kills quicker most of the time, and definatly leaves a better blood trail if needed..and much better on followup shots.

Maybe I should have also asked how many use a 7mm Mag of some sort for elk and what weight bullet? I don't think anyone would really argue how effective any good medium is on elk, even the 35 Whelen, etc. But to get a good idea of the effectiveness of the 160/2950fps velocity window? As I mentioned, "usually" when a person wants/thinks they need "more for elk" (range/power/speed)than a 270/30-06, they go to a 7mm Magnum of some sort. Many believe the 7mm caliber "balances" with a 160gr too, so its common in ammo. I would like to hear from the 7mm users? How did you think it killed, for you? Tell us the range too. My "average" distance on 3 cow elk is 190yds. My Average for Plains Game is about 170yds ( includes a handful of 375yd shots) I am not a LR hunter though. I'd like to hear from you guys and again, not saying its "better" than any 33-37 cal on elk. Just how did it kill for you? Thanks.

A 7 mag isn't one bit better than a 30-06 or a 270 in the field just barely on papper.. it just had a better add campaign..study the ballistic..To better a 06 or 270 one has to go with a bigger hole in the barrel, .338 win., 358 Norma, and then not my much..

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I just returned from a hunt in Nambia. Since we were touring afterward I didn't take a rifle but used the guide's gun. It was an ancient South African Musgrave .270 Win shooting cheap Hornady "American Whitetail" 140 grain ammunition. We took kudu, wildebeests (both black and blue), and oryx with a single shot. And three Hartman's Mountain Zebras with four total shots. Not even one of 21 total head of game of 11 different species came close to being lost shooting with this combination.

I've got nothing against larger guns for this size game and would have taken my .300 H&H if I had used my own rifle, but it wouldn't have caused me to take one more head of game or use one less round of ammunition. By all means take your meat cow elk with your .270 if that is the rifle you prefer.

A 270 Win shooting 150g Partitions has been my favorite rifle/caliber for half a century.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. Only time I knew I had a "small rifle" and "had to hunker down" was the hunt I had on exotics. I had that long barreled 6mm/222 Mag (6x47) and 85xbt going exactly 2900fps. I was in a neck brace, recovering from a neck fusion. I had already killed a big axis doe and a big axis buck ( in velvet) We were having lunch up in the ranch house, which was up on a hill, overlooking a big water hole ( in Texas its called a "tank".) A big Scimitar Horned Oryx and four cows were drinking. I did some fast talking and offered a trade for another rifle I had there ( it was a 220 Swift on a Model 7) and the old rancher wanted it anyhow. I came up with some money and the 220 Swift and off we went. The guide knew me, knew I could shoot, but I could tell he was nervous, ha. I told him I'd either head or neck shoot it. We followed them awhile, a breeze came up and we could get no closer than a ranged 184 yds. I got on my knees, sat on my heels (high weeds) and used a small tree as support. He turned broadside and I popped him at the base of neck, centered. Passed through with a quarter sized exit hole. Pole axed him ,no kick or wobble! I walked up to within 75yds and shot him up the brisket which went through the heart, and broke the spine, stopped right there. It still weighed 83 grains. He was 41 1/2 inches long. Guesstimated weight a bit over 400 for sure, I called it 500 pounds, hey, why not? ha. They are like a big spike bull elk. Good eating too! Now, that was a lucky opportunity, a lucky shot and a lucky ending. My partner had a 300WM backing me up, so I wasn't being foolish...at least I don't think I was! I "feel" much better with bigger calibers on elk!

your 270W pushes a 160 grain .277 bullet t 2950?! Wow. I load 61 grains of H870 into my 7mm RM loads to get to 3100 with 160 grain Nosler Partitions.

Another guy who thinks the .270 is plenty enough for elk, especially if you are modestly choosy of your shots.