After loading up different bullets for family (all 30-06) I found that 130gr TSX’s pushed to near max produced the most bloodshot and 200gr Nosler Accubonds produced the least. In the middle were 165gr Nosler partitions and 150gr E-Tips. However, everyone but the Accubonds produced an overabundance of trauma. I think that the trend is to go with the maximum velocity and maximum trauma to put down an animal. Personally, I find that using a good sturdy bullet at moderate velocity (2400-2600) is plenty good enough to kill deer size game and limit the amount of trauma to usable meat. I know that a perfectly placed bullet shouldn’t ruin any meat, regardless of design, but these shot are not always possible. Does anyone take into consideration on the bullet, caliber and speed of a bullet they use for animals destined for the freezer?

180gr Accubond reloads in my 300WM and 270WSM with 140's works great for me. Dont hit shoulders...any bullet will do this

For me.....double lung and most of the time complete pass thru penetration...small entrance, huge exits.

1 shot kills 95% of the time, usually animal drops or couple studder steps and falls over.

No meat damage.

quote:

Does anyone take into consideration on the bullet, caliber and speed of a bullet they use for animals destined for the freezer?

Yep I lean to heavier and slower if the main reason to take the animal is the table.

I don't have pics on here but they are in my mind,,the most horrible bloodshot messes I've seen were made by Sierra bullets out of magnums. We've lost almost the whole front end of a sheep on a couple occasions before, these shots were fairly short and probably would behave a bit at longer ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
After loading up different bullets for family (all 30-06) I found that 130gr TSX’s pushed to near max produced the most bloodshot and 200gr Nosler Accubonds produced the least. In the middle were 165gr Nosler partitions and 150gr E-Tips. However, everyone but the Accubonds produced an overabundance of trauma. I think that the trend is to go with the maximum velocity and maximum trauma to put down an animal. Personally, I find that using a good sturdy bullet at moderate velocity (2400-2600) is plenty good enough to kill deer size game and limit the amount of trauma to usable meat. I know that a perfectly placed bullet shouldn’t ruin any meat, regardless of design, but these shot are not always possible. Does anyone take into consideration on the bullet, caliber and speed of a bullet they use for animals destined for the freezer?

Always.

I mention quite often that I consider myself to be a short range meat hunter. By short range I mean 200 yds. and under. I’m also recovering from magnumitis. These days I load most stuff around 2,850 fps MV or less. There are exceptions. I also like Nosler Accubonds. They tend to give holes going in and out, thus a blood trail if needed to track and are not as frangible as the SGK’s Hornady SST’s or Nosler BT.

I remember a Sika stag I shot in 2000 at 125 yds. using a 338 Remington Ultra Mag loaded with 180 grain Ballistic tips at say, +/- 3,500 fps. This stag probably weighed around 130 lbs. Destroyed both shoulders. Jelly for about 12” diameter circle.

IIRC, around 2003 I shot a medium size hog with my 257 Weatherby using 100 gr. Nosler Partitions at +/-3,650 fps, I was shooting downhill and he was facing straight toward me. Hit him just at the withers. It exploded the intestines and permeated the meat with excrement. Threw the pig away as it was ruined.

IIRC around 2008 I shot a nice whitetail buck chasing a doe at +/- 120 yds, with same 257 Weatherby and load. He was coming straight on and the bullet caught him straight in front of the withers. Once again destroyed the backstraps and tops of both front shoulders.

Here are a few pix.

My first choice, especially on hogs. Sever the spine. They drop and paddle. DRT, no tracking and very little waste of meat.



On this hog I didn’t even have to cut/saw through the vertebrae as the bullet completely severed that.

First is a 100 lb. +/- whitetail doe, taken at approx. 80 yds with a 257 roberts loaded w/110 gr nosler accubonds. Complete penetration and plenty of blood to track. Deer ran about fifty yds. before piling up. Very little bloodshot meat.










Next is a medium sized hog using 100 gr. ballistic tips at 120 yds.


entrance


exit


complete severing of spine.


Here is a medium size hog taken with 180 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips, 124 yds., +/- 2,850 fps.


porker


entrance


exit

For meat hunting 1,800 to 2,800 fps. MV works just fine.

Best

GWB

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
Does anyone take into consideration on the bullet, caliber and speed of a bullet they use for animals destined for the freezer?

I do now. I too was once afflicted with magnumitis. I have put my magnums in the back of the safe in favor of standard calibers with a moderate weight bullet for caliber, at a moderate velocity. I find that the animals are just as dead and the meat lost to bloodshot is much less.

quote:

Personally, I find that using a good sturdy bullet at moderate velocity (2400-2600) is plenty good enough to kill deer size game and limit the amount of trauma to usable meat

Yes out to 300 yards or so they work very well.

big bullets at low vels make big holes to let the air in .. and doesn't usually result in bloodshot meat ..

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
After loading up different bullets for family (all 30-06) I found that 130gr TSX’s pushed to near max produced the most bloodshot and 200gr Nosler Accubonds produced the least. In the middle were 165gr Nosler partitions and 150gr E-Tips. However, everyone but the Accubonds produced an overabundance of trauma. I think that the trend is to go with the maximum velocity and maximum trauma to put down an animal. Personally, I find that using a good sturdy bullet at moderate velocity (2400-2600) is plenty good enough to kill deer size game and limit the amount of trauma to usable meat. I know that a perfectly placed bullet shouldn’t ruin any meat, regardless of design, but these shot are not always possible. Does anyone take into consideration on the bullet, caliber and speed of a bullet they use for animals destined for the freezer?

I try to keep a balance between DRT and waste of edible meat. There are a number of combinations that tend to produce quick DRT kills, but not as many of those maximize the yield of edible meat. I for one like to save the heart for tablefare. I tend to lean towards combinations that allow me to shoot through both lungs over the heart while keeping the heart intact. Over the years I've developed strong preferences for certain combinations that will quickly dump deer while not turning the heart and chest cavity into jelly. Frangible bullets on the high speed end of the scale tend to produce more jellified waste within the distances I shoot. Less frangible bullets at moderate speeds tend to produce greater yield. I'm kinda old school leaning toward heavy for caliber bullets, but there are modern designs that allow you to drop down some in weight with near equal performance of the heavier traditional bullets.

Best

I don't find anything pleasant in shooting a gun you can't enjoy. I've not hunted whitetails everywhere but it's hard for me to believe there is a whitetail walking that needs a magnum to bring it down. Not to mention trying to work up loads for them. ugh!

I've settled on the 150gr TSX at 2750fps for my 30-06. Of course nothing rivals a 30-30 with 150gr factory loads for killing power with limited meat destruction but it's a fairly short range cartridge.
Velocity = meat destruction. Doesn't matter if it's a 223 at 4000fps or a 375 at 3000fps it's going to cause some damage.
As GW said, keep it below 2800 and you can eat right up to the hole

A few years ago, my son (in his 30s at the time) bought a Rem 700 in .300 Ultra Mag as an elk rifle. He decided it might be good for long range antelope hunting with 150gr bullets. Took it out, and you guessed it, found an antelope at less than 100 yds. Hit it in the left shoulder and totally blew the right shoulder off with totally bloodshot meat.
He now has "borrowed" his mother's (my ex) Rem 660 in .243 with 100gr bullets and seems to have more meat available.

My experiences mirror what has already been said. Including the comments about magnums. I guided hunters here in Colorado for almost 30 years, but had developed a dislike for magnums after just the first couple. Too much meat wasted.
A load I used and was very happy with was the 168 gr. TSX loaded to 2890 in a 300 WSM. I had loaded it down to lessen recoil, and the goal was to approximate '06 speeds. It worked great, killed fine and didn't ruin much meat.

I killed a mature cow elk at (estimated) 250 yards a month ago using a .280 Remington and 160 grain Nosler partitions.

The shot entered the rib cage almost exactly in the center (vertically) and about six inches behind the front leg. When I got to the elk, she had emitted lung tissue from the nostrils and that was the only sign of being hit.....aside from being dead!

Upon removing the hide back at the ranch the entrance and exit holes were finally evident.....and yes there was an exit but not a drop of blood outside the carcass. The exit hole wasn't much larger than a dime and the meat loss was a couple ounces at the most.

The cow ran about 100 yards after the shot and fell.....and never gave any indication of having been hit.....and only one shot was fired.....

I'm still trying to figure out if I want to use this bullet again in future hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I killed a mature cow elk at (estimated) 250 yards a month ago using a .280 Remington and 160 grain Nosler partitions.

The shot entered the rib cage almost exactly in the center (vertically) and about six inches behind the front leg. When I got to the elk, she had emitted lung tissue from the nostrils and that was the only sign of being hit.....aside from being dead!

Upon removing the hide back at the ranch the entrance and exit holes were finally evident.....and yes there was an exit but not a drop of blood outside the carcass. The exit hole wasn't much larger than a dime and the meat loss was a couple ounces at the most.

The cow ran about 100 yards after the shot and fell.....and never gave any indication of having been hit.....and only one shot was fired.....

I'm still trying to figure out if I want to use this bullet again in future hunts.

A few years back, I killed an elk using my 7x57 with a 150 grain Partition and got total penetration. There wasn't any bloodshot meat and the blood trail was scant but, not needed as it only went about 50 yards.
Although I really like my 7mm and use it regularly, it has been my experience that under .30 cal., bloodtrails are fairly light.

We used to load our deer rifles fast and ruined lots of shoulders. this year i shot mine with a moderately loaded 375 and became a believer.

quote:

Originally posted by gunsrgood:
I don't find anything pleasant in shooting a gun you can't enjoy. I've not hunted whitetails everywhere but it's hard for me to believe there is a whitetail walking that needs a magnum to bring it down. Not to mention trying to work up loads for them. ugh!

every whitetail can be killed with a bow or a rock hammer ...

sorry, i have an amazingly different perspective on what constitutes recoil -- 17-24# .. even 40... seriously, gentlemen, singleshot 12ga's kick more than a 300 whibang (perhaps the 30-378 is an exception, and I don't enjoy the 300 rum) .. but I ROUTINELY shoot scoped rifles from a seated position with recoil over 75#.. i usually take the scope off at 100# of recoil...

no, I am not posturing -- I am merely pointing out that recoil and recoil sensitivity can be matters of the mind...

click on any of the carts in my signature for examples...

a 416 with a 400gr bullet at 2150 is going to have a MINIMUM exit wound of .416 .. more likely about 1.0, with minimal bloodshot meat -- and critters don't go far with such a hit...

and the rifle is PLEASANT to shoot with such a popgun load, scoped, and way sub moa ..

all that being said, my fav mediums are 7x64 .. heavier bullets going slower than standard load for a 280/7rem express, 308, and 358 winchester.. all moderate speed loads with heavier for caliber bullets... bang, flop...

oddly, bullet placement means far more than anything else, and if one is convinced that they can't shoot ABC caliber, then they are usually right...

I am very carefull about not getting a lot of bloodshot meat..My ranch raised family all love deer and elk meat so I use heavy bullets in whatever gun I use..I like the 220 gr. Nosler in the 30-06..The 175 gr. Hornady in the 7x57..

The best of all is my 375 with 300 gr. Swift, Northfork or Woodleigh 350 gr. bullets, it just cuts a big broom size hole thru a deer, elk or antelope with a lung shot and you can eat the hole.

But if I am meat hunting and not after a trophy buck which is much of the time, I use the old family 25-35 with 117 gr. factory loads, sometime the 30-30 with 170s..They both kill well out to 200 yards and again you can eat right up to the hold.

The other option is the head shot, I will take that if within 100 yards, standing and I have a rest.

OMG Ray!...
A 30-30! A 25-35!!!
You must have gained experience with these before internet hunting expertise came along and declared such "stunts" impossible.
Why, from what I read on the internet today, we should have just given it up several hundred years ago because those old matchlock guns could not possible have killed ANYTHING!
I worked with old men on the ranches of my youth, that only used rounds like these, and another old favorite, the .300 Savage. They kill game, yes Dorothy, even elk, just as good today as they did then... and they still do it without ruining half the animal.
But you already knew that.

I try to consider bullet placement and meat loss different than bullet construction and velocity. If a rifle like to accurately shoot a ballistic tip or a Game King fast so be it.

I always consider a quick clean kill priority one. If I lose most of a front shoulder the thought has been 3/4s beats none.

I think this is the point; a quick kill does not necessarily mean one has to have lots of blooshot meat. and I don't see losing 1/4 of a deer in the trade for a quick kill as a good deal when the same can be done without losing said shoulder.

Amen.

If you think losing a front shoulder is losing 1/4 of a deer you don't know about fractions. By the time you are done whittling on that shoulder there is hand full of grind. shoot through both fronts and now we are talking a good shot. Maybe not dead right there but surely down right there and and the butchering job is not 1/2 easier but 200% easier and you only lost 10% of the meat.

If you want to get more deer meat shoot more deer. More front shoulders gain you little.

In my real world whitetail hunting I do not always get a standing broadside shot at an animal in a food plot. I hunt in the woods. I take what I can get.

Please give me a break on the fractions. A deer has four quarters. If I take make one front quarter mush, I still have the remaining three quarters. Hence 3/4s, not .750 or 75%

I have in the past shot deer high in the hind quarters, break his pelvis. Very little meat loss. Follow up shot is required. Not a good clean kill. A whitetail buck in the woods on alert, getting ready to bolt, after you have tacked him half a day. You get one try before he bolts. And he is ready to bolt. The only thing you see is the hindquarters and the tip of his nose with some antler showing.

In those years it was all about putting meat in the freezer. And his meat went in.

I think my point was taken, Slim. This is not a math exercise.

I know it can't always be avoided especially by those who still hunt or drive but this is why I like to hunt open fields and from a distance. To me any shot that is not a perfect broad side standing shot is not a good shot. Any thing other than that adds to the risks of poor shot placement especially where meat is a priority. Even my .300 Win Mag with 165 grain BT's never ruined meat when the bullet went thru the ribs and blew apart lungs. I don't eat the heart or liver but they could have been eaten in almost every deer I have killed. I have yet to see a reason to "break down" a white tail by shooting them thru the front shoulders like some guys think they must do. Put an expanding bullet thru both lungs with an adequate caliber and you usually get a bang flop dead right there.

In my hunting I have found all of the comments to be true and accurate as far as velocity and bloodshot wasted meat
I have grown fond of cast bullets in large cal rifles at modest velocity
never fail you
I use a 45/70 with a 440 gr bullet

I think the biggest violators of too much bloodshot meat are the polymer tipped bullets. Especialy short, fast ones. But I do like heavy for caliber Accubonds. Velocity and sectional density play a big role for sure.

Nowadays there are bullets, like the partition, that will give excellent performance at virtually any velocity.

One of my favorite all time combinations is heavy for caliber Speer mag tip @ about 2800-2900 fs. It performs much like a low budget North fork.