Gentlemen,

I have been feeling a little better lately. More importantly, I am retired, and have some pension $$ coming in. I have paid for a stock which will arrive in the late portion of this coming week.

I have a Krieger barrel at Z1Rs place. He will ship it to me in a couple weeks.

I have the action - a Model 70 from New Haven in 300 RUM.

The stock is a Winchester Magnum laminated number, OEM, designed for hard kickers. It is all ready for me to put a mercury recoil reducer in the butt.

Shooters Pro Shop even has 286-grain Protected Point Partitions on sale for $25.25 for #50.

Dave Manson has the reamer print, and my throating instructions, He should be done in a month.

I have the Jig, reamer, and bushings for my gunsmith to single point cut the threads of my action straight with respect to the universe.

I even have a fresh can of Devcon Steel-Bed, and some acra-whatever dye.

I even have 100 fresh brass cases, and North Fork, and Swift A-Frame bullets.

I will post pictures over the next few months.

Holy Guacamole, it has been a twelve year struggle, but this project is finally coming in to dock at the wharf.

The case seems to be longer than you think

Hallelujah!

Good you are feeling better....

Your project looks like it's beginning to shape up nicely.

Eager to see this come together

Here is the original Rogues Gallery of a portion of the 9.3 Universe:




Links to rechts 9.3x57, 9.3x62, 9.3x63, 9.3x64, 9.3x65R, 9.3x66 (370 Sako Magnum), 9.3x70 Expert, 9.3x74.

David Manson sent me a reamer print in PDF today. Send me your email address via PM, and I will gladly send you a copy.

Here, Have a side order of IED:

9.3x70 has always intrigued me..but I always go back to the 9.3x62 or 64 as more practical. I really like the 9.3 family of cartridges and have used the 62 and 64 a good deal in Africa.

I have a Mauser in 9,3x64, and used to have one in 9.3x62. Both are good cartridges. This one just carries the heavy mail a little faster. 2,800fps for a Partition at 286-grains. Schwack!

I can also use foam plugs, and take the power down to either 9.3x64mm, or 9.3x62mm levels. I should have a nuclear bomb mushroom cloud engraved on the cases.

The laminated stock is on the horizon.

Looks like a good one. I really like my 9.3×64 . But I would probably be happier with Kabluey's 366 Alaskan. Much more common brass. Tho your 70 is faster. No doubt !
How does the brass differ from say 338 RUM brass ?

It has a rimless, not rebated head, the body has a little more taper for feeding, it does have a sharp angled shoulder, so that part is the same. I believe they have the same length. You need slow powders, but not as slow as with a RUM.
Figure 2,800 fps for a 286-grain bullet.
I think a mercury recoil reducer will be in order. What is a .366 Alaskan?

A bit less fps than a 375 Wea.

366 Alaskan is basically just a necked up 338 Winchester. From what I gathered when KB was working up loads in it . It is ballistically IDENTICAL to the 9.3×64 Brenneke. For powder charge, bullet weight , velocity. He had iirc a 23" barrel , my Brenneke's is 21.5" from bolt face to rifling crown . So I pay over $1.00 more for brass than he does. The dies were similarly priced . my shell holder cost $28.00 . And, I can hold 4 in the mag as opposed to 3 . the build cost on mine was a fair bit more . . Sure can't complain about its kill to cartridges ratio tho. Everything has been a 1 shot kill with my rifle. I hope yours will be also. !

So the 9.3×70 has the same case base "not rim " diameter as the RUM case ?

It is a killer. I used one in Namibia that belonged to German PH Dirk Rohrmann. The story goes that it was the fav caliber of Goering of world war II fame.

quote:

So the 9.3×70 has the same case base "not rim " diameter as the RUM case ?

Yes, that is correct.

I am glad that other people are using the 9.3 x 70mm. I have pictures (on paper, I'm afraid) of Uncle Herman with his rifle. He probably got his powder from 20mm shells.

My own 9.3x64 Brenneke is finally coming home from Z1r's tender care. That will be fun as well. I was going to use my 25" barrel on the Brenneke, but decided if I was ever going to finish the 9.3x70mm, now was the time. I just got the stock in today. It is an OEM Winchester Alaskan stock designed for their .375 H&H offering. It is a dark grey laminated design. All it needs is a spacer, and a 1" thick decelerator. I will decide on a mercury recoil reducer after shooting it. Will Start with Norma MRP powder for the 286-grain bullets.

Lawndart:

man ive been following this 9.3 x 70 thing of yours over the last 12 years but something bugs me ! Why the "Expert" business ?

After much research and digging I can come up with no indication that this thing was ever called a "Expert magnum " ..... the "Expert" grates the senses like fingernails on a chalkboard

What we do know is that the Expert case was brand name and possibly connected to Reimer Johannsen. Even the font in which Expert was done is a modern creation.

The original 9.3x70 was a DWM creation # 569 created in 1928 one year after Brennecke's 64

( one of a whole series of cartridges based on the 404 case ) also not to be confused with the RWS experimental which was never released.

Anyway this should be way cool if you can pull her off !

Wow, Thats pretty cool. The problem at that time would have been getting bullets tough enough to handle that velocity.

Lawndart,
Have you tried Kick-eze pads. I have found them to absorb more recoil than decelerator - usually enough to allow a thinner pad (to leave more pretty wood).
crf

quote:

man ive been following this 9.3 x 70 thing of yours over the last 12 years but something bugs me ! Why the "Expert" business ?

On the head of my cases, it says 9.3x70 EXPERT Magnum in big, laser cut letters. My guess is that whoever commissioned the brass (from Horneber, I believe) had that appellation made into the name. IIRC, When I ordered the 100 or so cases, they were listed as 9.3x70mm Expert Magnum on the shipping invoice from Reimer Johannsen. I'll take a picture when I work on my walking today.

quote:

Wow, Thats pretty cool. The problem at that time would have been getting bullets tough enough to handle that velocity.

I agree. I can only imagine the cup was made extra thick on the softs, and there was some extra steel in the solids.

quote:

Lawndart,
Have you tried Kick-eze pads. I have found them to absorb more recoil than decelerator - usually enough to allow a thinner pad (to leave more pretty wood).
crf

Yes, I have used them a lot on shotguns. I need a little extra length because of my long arms, and long neck.
I am installing a Gun Nut II assembly into the stock. Then it will be easier to try different pads.
The mercury recoil reducer will help (If the gun's balance point allows for one.
My stock is just a laminated Winchester Alaska stock for a 375 H&H. My gunsmith may wish to put in a second recoil lug.

LD
Ive seen those cases with the Expert HS
the one leg of the X is actually a small cartridge with bullet. Problem is it's a modern case

The original DWM cases were Berdan primed and wore DWM HS's and the DWM case number


I tried hunting down references to a possible Expert brand name and the only reference I can come up with is that Brennecke called their hunting ammo "Expert" hunting ammo at some point but no HS belonging to them, also their logo is a small acorn leaf. There is off course a notion that somehow Brennecke may have had something to do with the development of this case but with dates in the mid 1930's ?

Hi Alf,

Is the DWM number associated with the cartridge DWM 569?

quote:

the one leg of the X is actually a small cartridge with bullet. Problem is it's a modern case

The original DWM cases were Berdan primed and wore DWM HS's and the DWM case number

I will stop referring to it as the "Expert Magnum." My head is fuzzy on the topic. The more I think about it, the more I think it is indeed a modern marketing ploy, especially since you have seen the "Expert" LOGO on other cases.

I think that Schiwy(SP), the gunsmith got an order from fat Hermann, and hied on down to the DWM offices with an explanation of what the boss wanted, The cartridge design to accomplish the objectives was pretty obvious. I'm not sure if the original rifle was a Magnum action or a standart opened up. I'll dig through my research in the library.
Dave Manson told me when he checked on my reamer print that he found the cartridge was enjoying a resurgence among prominent German safari hunters. That has to be due to the presence of this new brass. I will think in terms of the Expert just being a brand name, or a case "type" within the larger Brenneke line.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:

quote:

Lawndart,
Have you tried Kick-eze pads. I have found them to absorb more recoil than decelerator - usually enough to allow a thinner pad (to leave more pretty wood).
crf

Yes, I have used them a lot on shotguns. I need a little extra length because of my long arms, and long neck.
I am installing a Gun Nut II assembly into the stock. Then it will be easier to try different pads.
The mercury recoil reducer will help (If the gun's balance point allows for one.
My stock is just a laminated Winchester Alaska stock for a 375 H&H. My gunsmith may wish to put in a second recoil lug.

The Boyd's laminate stock on my 9.3×64 started to split up at the top of the wrist from being hammered by the rear tang. I had asked the smith to put an under barrel recoil lug on when he built it . But he didn't. Sure enough it needed one. And the rear tang and bottom metal rear tang needs to be relieved. At least on my rifles. There is one on it now. And 3 cross bolts. I think it will hold up to the recoil now.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience. I will relieve it behind the action, and reinforce the wrist. I have two cross bolts now, but will change those for the heavy duty Recknagel units. I will also have a second recoil lug inset into the barrel, and put a crossbolt just behind that.

I went with a Winchester OEM laminated Alaska stock. It is a very solid place to start. I think I will bury epoxy coated threaded drill rod pieces through the wrist.

The only problem for me with this stock is that as it, it is almost 3/4" to 1" too short for me. There is no solution other than put a thick spacer and a thick recoil pad on it. Not too purty, but function comes first. After I croak, the next owner can remove my butt spacer and pad, and put the originals back on.

Eventually, I will get a magnum fill McMillan stock, and have at it.

Change of topic: Is your 9.3x64 built on a Mauser action? What model Boyds stock are you using? My 9.3 x 64 Brenneke is actually designed to be a mountain rifle. It may sting a little when I torch it off. If I connect, the animal will be DRT .

That RWS 9.3x70 Exp is not the same dimension as the 9.3x70 DWM and not to be confused with the DWM ! the RWS is a different animal alltogether !

Yep, it is completely different.
What DWM number do you have for the real 9,3x70 Alf? My sources say 569, but one small article disputed that.

LD; I have the opposite problem. Short and thick :-) . So I have a 13.25" lop on my 64. And if I'm all parka'edup or wearing a pack I wish it was 13" or less. My Boyds on this rifle is the Classic or JRS Classic model. Very nice open wrist and grip . The comb and heel are low enough that I pick up the express sights very easily. Don't have to grind my cheek into the comb to line up the sights. The action is a Interarms Mark X that started life as an 06 so the rails and bolt face and extractor had to be opened up. It has NECG bits on it . 1 standing,1 folding rear banded sling stud on the barrel and a banded front sight. Integral muzzle brake with 3 ports per side and 3 holes on top . Solid bottom. Steel Weaver bases with 8×40 screws. At this point I have a 1-4×24 ,30 mm tube Vortex Crossfire ll with the V Brite reticle in High Warns rings.
I would like to have a 3 position Model 70 safety and a military trigger installed. Instead of the Bold trigger and safety that is in it. Oh, and it has Blackburn bottom metal. PacNor 1-12" twist stainless barrel.
Historically I've shot the 250 gr X and TSX bullets for hunting . Pushed by RL 15 . But need to get a bunch more and see if Varget will get me the velocity. Rl15 doesn't do so good in the cold. But as is . I'm getting 2750 fps with easy pressures.

Varget may do a little better in the cold. That is a worthwhile experiment. My 9,3x64 is very similar to yours. I have the Ed Lapour three wing safety on it. That is the way to go in my opinion. Good stock choice for the open sights. I am putting a peep sight on my rifle. I'm used to that from the military.


Go Air Force

From Brad Dixon's book:
The Brenneke assumption however is disputed by many in the cartridge collectors world.

From Fed Datig's DWM list

I'm going to try the TTSXBT 250 gr. Should reduce my drop a bit and retain a bit of snort over the flat base.

One of its many 1 shot kills. I originally had the rifle built when I moved to the Interior as a general purpose/moose rifle. But, I haven't got a moose with it yet.

Didn't mean to clutter up your threads with my pics.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
That RWS 9.3x70 Exp is not the same dimension as the 9.3x70 DWM and not to be confused with the DWM ! the RWS is a different animal alltogether !

Do you perchance have the cartridge dimensions for the RWS 9.3x70 Exp?

Just get you conversion app set to convert milimeters to inches. Millimeters divided by 25.4 will give you dimensions in inches.

Cold Fingers, I really enjoy your pictures; where do you live in Alaska? I was in Palmer.

Alf thank you tremendously. I think these cases were made by DWM initially, and their has been a bit of a revival lately. This cartridge shoots the 286, 300, and 320-grain cartridges, and shoots them flat. Ouch. I will use the 250 Accubond for deer and antelope; the 286 has got to be a perfect Elk pill. the heavier bullets are perfect for Africa, I would imagine.

Springtime neighbors in an area without house cats on the prowl.

Thanks Alf, very interesting cartridge...

This family of long thin cartridges (excluding the 9.3x70 DWM 569) started out as rimmed and were for a particular genre of German rifle. For the most in spite of their apparent size they were 30-06 equivalents and their hunting application the same as a 30-06. The Rimless versions an attempt to adapt them to the Mauser System. There is a whole world of them out there !

Awesome,
Im keeping track with this...

I don't however have any use for a Mercury reducer, but if one must, use one in the forend also to balance the gun, One in the butt makes the gun butt heavy and out of balance IMO..

Actually I broke down in my old age and purchased a Ruger African in .338 and I love it. Incidently it came with a muzzle brake, and thread cap..Ive been using it at the range for testing and sighting in, wearing ear protection of course and one does that anyway. I can shoot all day long, as recoil is all but non existent.

I forgot to take it off on day one, shot my elk with it on, surprisingly it didn't bother me at all. but probably not a good practice and I don't intend to make a habit of it, although many do, and they make those ear plugs that have a string to go around the neck which btw is a good practice with or without a muzzle brake, bottom line is guns are loud.