I view muzzle brakes as a good thing . My favourite 338 and 416 and 458 all have muzzle brakes . Some of these modern style don't seem to be much louder than not having a brake on . Many brakes are a bit much on the side blast and for some , that is the deciding factor against having one on their rifle.
I'm looking forward to getting a 375 Ruger With a brake on it as all mine were the Alaskan version without the brake. Should make eroding the throat a lot funner ;-) !
I guess it could be said that my favourite 9.3 has a brake on it also. It being the easiest shooting rifle I've owned producing over 4k ft lbs at the muzzle.

I have a gazillion acres of BLM multi-use land out my backdoor. I suppose I could put on a Vais brake for practice and use a thread protector for hunting. I'll probably just do the mercury unit(s) as needed. The main problem is that I am so weak these days. Whatever I do, it will be reversible for whoever buys it after I am bone charcoal for heat treating the surface of six shooters.

My new chauffeur:

I'm going to try the Harrell's Tactical Brake on my 458 . but their Radial brake is the most cost effective on the market. Probably put the Tactical on my wife's GunSight Scout rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor also.

With a brake you can pack a much lighter gun, and that will off set your weakness some IMO, I know it does for old curmudgeons like myself..With a brake I can comfortably shoot my .375 Brno Zkk 602 without it banging my simi crippled hand..MIght be a better option than packing around several pounds of lead or Mercury.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
This family of long thin cartridges (excluding the 9.3x70 DWM 569) started out as rimmed and were for a particular genre of German rifle. For the most in spite of their apparent size they were 30-06 equivalents and their hunting application the same as a 30-06. The Rimless versions an attempt to adapt them to the Mauser System. There is a whole world of them out there !

Good info...Certainly brings up some interesting noodling possibilities... Thanks!

Alf, if you don't mind, I will use some of your verbiage (with full attribution). You keep me centered in these discussions.
Dave Manson finished the reamer today. It will fit the Krieger barrel very nicely. If someone else is interested in this caliber, I will convert the the reamer to a multi piloted unit, and rent it for use by some gunsmiths that I trust. I cannot figure out what powder they used in 1935-1940. I will be starting with H-1000, Retumbo, Norma's MRP, and so on. I hope to find some loads that fill the case, and am happy that I have a 25" barrel length. If need be, I will use the .375" diameter foam plugs from Kynoch. Next step is to have the receiver blue printed. Just because it is a hunting rifle is no excuse for it not to shoot very straight. Babble mode off.

I always wanted to try Retumbo in my 338 RUM. But sold it to a guy that wanted it more than I did.

I got my reamer in from David Manson, and my barrel from Z1r. I forgot, it is a Brux in the fastest twist they make, and is a number 4, heavy sporter contour - perfect. It will finish up at 25"; a decent compromise between handling and velocity. I wonder if Herr Goering's cartridges were filled with the same powder as was used in the 20mm Oerlikon light anti-aircraft shells. Next, the action goes to be blueprinted, straight, concentric, and normal (perpendicular). My experience with these 1990s New Haven rifles is that they didn't all come from the factory perfectly straight. One of mine showed up with the front of the receiver six degrees out of normal with the rest of the receiver. I can only imagine how off some of the threads will be measured at.

One donor rifle is a 300 RUM. It still has the barrel. The other donor is a 7mm STW. I have extra 300 Rum magazine boxes, and followers. I haven't compared the feed rails yet, but I am confident in my final gunsmith's abilities in ensuring both the 9.3x70mm DWM, and the 404 Jeffery feed eagerly, and correctly.

These two rifle projects, a 6mm PPC, a G33/40, and a pair of heavy barreled "tactical" rifles (one in .308 Win, and the other in 6.5 Creedmore), in addition to my wife, and friends, help me to not overly focus on health issues. Life is, of course, too fleeting, but we all have the opportunity to do some interesting things, and play with interesting things along the way. Here is a toast to all of you who have enriched my life more than you can ever know. Thanks for that.

Lyudmilla Pavlichenko, Major in Soviet Red Army - 309 confirmed kills between 1941 and 1942. All time high scorer for a female sniper. She spent the rest of the war doing War Bond work, even in the USA. Better than getting her own large ass shot off out on the steppes.

I have corresponded with Redding Reloading. After the rifle is finished, and I send in three once fired 9.3x70 cases, they will make a set of reloading dies for me. Those will then be available for other adventuresome souls for much less.

If someone else wishes to have one of these rifles made for himself, I will lend the reamer (Of course it will cost you up front so I get my reamer back, and in good shape. Then the money will be returned.

Otherwise, Dave Manson now has the reamer pattern programmed. His reamers are very good, period.

I have never seen a 9,3x70 here in Germany on Egun or VDB. I am guessing there are no more than 100 in the whole country.

Not something I am working on right now, I have too much going on financially, and I'd rather have a safari or a red stag hunt than buy rifles, safes, and everything else needed to own guns in Germany.

The last 8 or 10 months here will be hectic, catching up on wants and needs.

I originally read the Harold Wolf article years ago. I would probably be willing to say that I have lusted after a rifle like that for a long time. Harold was going to sell me his original 9,3x70 rifle about 5 years ago, I think the price was about 4000 Euros. I already had 5 rifles on my Spanish license and was stuck.

With Prechtl just being right up the road, I think it is worth considering building something like this.

Being a 9.3 fan, having used the 9.3x62 a lot, the 9.3x64 a bit less, Ive always had an eye on the 9.3x70 as my thinking is a 300 swift or 320 Woodleigh would be a marriage made in heaven..However age and give a shitter have gone into neutral, and such has never came about. Keep us posted, very interesting. I still love the 9.3x62 and felt the 9.3x64 simply didn't improve it by more than 100 FPS, now matter how I loaded it..The 9.3x70 would therefore be a cracker jack of a caliber for a dyed in the wool wildcatter.

The 62 is a good round . But the 64 beats it by more like 250 fps . With both having CIP spec chamber and similar length barrels. .

Perhaps I walk where no man has gone before but Ive always been able to get within 100 FPS of any 9.3x64, ALL THINGS EQUAL, especially with RL-17...but Ive never checked out the CIP and only a few reloading manuals on the 9.3s as they underload most metrics all to hell..But Pierre van der Walt,in his book African Dangerous Game Cartridges had the same results. Both van der Walt and Doctari compare the 9.3x62 too the 375 H&H and there preference is the 9.3x62.but there can be a lot of varibles to deal with when comparing calibers. the one thing Im sure of is you cannot tell the difference in killing effect between the 9.3x62, 9.3x64 or the .375 H&H as its so visually similar. I grant you there is lots of room for opinion on this subject, so I am just injecting mine and glad to have each shooter arrive at his own opinion..

quote:

I have never seen a 9,3x70 here in Germany on Egun or VDB. I am guessing there are no more than 100 in the whole country.

Not something I am working on right now, I have too much going on financially, and I'd rather have a safari or a red stag hunt than buy rifles, safes, and everything else needed to own guns in Germany.

The last 8 or 10 months here will be hectic, catching up on wants and needs.

I originally read the Harold Wolf article years ago. I would probably be willing to say that I have lusted after a rifle like that for a long time. Harold was going to sell me his original 9,3x70 rifle about 5 years ago, I think the price was about 4000 Euros. I already had 5 rifles on my Spanish license and was stuck.

With Prechtl just being right up the road, I think it is worth considering building something like this.

1, Does anyone have a copy of that original article? I would be happy to pay for an original, or a crisp photocopy.

2. This cartridge will likely add 120 m/s to 9.3x64 velocities.

3. I will likely use a silencer/suppressor/moderator to keep the recoil down. That and lead, or mercury, in the stock and fore arm.

4. My initial load development work will be with Norma powders. That should ease other people's Rottweil powder work ups. Also Vihtavuori and ADI (Hodgdon) powders.

5. Instead of a European style chamber neck and throat, I went with 0.300" of freebore, and a throat angle of 1.5 degrees. That is for safety, AND accuracy.

6. Dave Manson made my reamer. He may be able to ship one to you in Germany. This is obviously a hunting cartridge, not a military number. The Soviets now use the 9.3 x 64 as their primary sniping round.

7. Perhaps inquiries in der Deutschland will produce some hard won loading data.

8. I will be paying for the development of the reloading dies. It will definitely be worth getting dies from Redding if you use the Manson reamer, or any other reamer, for that matter. I am attempting to get a micrometer seating die incorporated into the two die set. Maybe so, maybe not so.

9. In the end, the rifle will be bedded into a McMillan Sako Hunter style stock (short tang AV, circa. 1990).

I do not have a copy, I had about 30 Safari Times I bought from grumpy old Ray about 18 months ago before our move to Germany. I sold them to someone on here, so they didn't get killed in crossing the Atlantic.

I wish Harald was still in the gun business, he had all of them available on a CD. Not sure what happened to it.

I just noticed that I have copy of Harald Wolf´s article in PDF -format. So lawndarf send me yours mail address with PM and I´ll send it to you.

Oh dude, thank you so much.

quote:

I do not have a copy, I had about 30 Safari Times I bought from grumpy old Ray about 18 months ago before our move to Germany. I sold them to someone on here, so they didn't get killed in crossing the Atlantic.

I wish Harald was still in the gun business, he had all of them available on a CD. Not sure what happened to it.

Yes, he could make some money off a CD of all those issues. Like me, he got sick, and got financially wiped out so fast it made his head swim. I hope he is back on his feet, or nearly so.

We have exchanged emails a number of times. I think he went back to working in Aerospace. Not sure if here in Germany or in Belgium.

Not sure if he still lives near Liege or not.

He was generous with information.

Life is cruel, and unpredictable. Harald did a lot of good work with the Hatari times. Please give him my best if you Email Harald.

Okay sports fans. I pulled off the barrel on my 7mm STW, and sent the action over to Greg Tannel for single point blue printing, new firing pin and extractor piece, bolt rework, etc.

I already installed a Williams spring steel extractor, lapped the bolt lugs, and drilled (think 3.5mm carbide bit off of Fleabay - thank you Spearchucker) and tapped the scope base holes for 8-40. Will probably go with Talley bases and QD rings with Torx screws.

I will take pictures before it goes out, and have Greg take some more of the process.

Sounds great. ! Look forward to the updates.

I was just reading the article from Hatari Times again, the 2nd one.

I never owned Hatari Times 2, so I never read that part of it. I do own John Speeds mauser book, I'll have to dig through it and see if there is anything written about it in there.

I need to figure out a way to bring a Prechtl magnum mauser home with me.

Sources:

Brass: http://appelbaum-sport.de/wied...9-3x70-magnum-expert

Dies: http://triebel-shop.com/produc...1e26049a1fa5d4ced0c2

There are about 30 articles on the German hunting rags. But! They are all fairly speculative.

The Deautche Jagdlexikon has this to say:

The 9.3x70 was launched by DWM in 1928, one year after the 9.3x64 .
In the 1920s, DWM developed a series of cartridges based on the .404 Jeffery , with calibers such as 7.65x70 , 7.65x77 , 8x73 and 9.3x70 . Only the latter was ready to go.
Until 1945 the caliber could not establish itself on the market, only a few gunmen made weapons in this caliber and after the second world war cartridge production was not taken up.
At the end of the 1990s, however, the 9.3x70 unexpectedly experienced a "small renaissance", Harald Wolff (Belgium), Günter Fréres and Raimer Johannsen offered new factory loads and weapons in individual production.
In 1967, Walter Gehmann, who also used Jeffery as his mother's sleeve, developed the 9.3x75 from the farm maximum , but the cartridge did not go beyond the practical tests and the project was not followed up in favor of the 9,5x66 SE from the farm . However, it was comparable to the 9.3x70 .
At the beginning of the 2000s, David G. Walker launched the .366 DGW on the market, which uses the .416 Rigby as the mother sleeve nevertheless in the same performance range.
The 9.3x70 is not to be confused with the experimental cartridge 9.3x70 RWS .

This is from another German gun rag:

The 9.3 x 70 - largely unknown and yet best suited for long shots on heavy game

By Roland Zeitler
While the cartridges 9.3 × 62, 9.3 × 64 and 9.3 × 74 R are well-known, the fewest hunters can begin with the caliber designation 9.3 × 70. The DWM cartridge factory in Karlsruhe dealt with cartridge development on the basis of the .404 Jeffery sleeve (alias 10.75 × 73) in the 1920s. Calibers such as 7.65 × 70, 7.65 × 77, 8 × 73 and also the 9.3 × 70 were developed from the base sleeve.
Of the mentioned cartridges probably only the 9.3 × 70 in serial production went. The cartridge with groove, 70-millimeter sleeve and 30-degree shoulder has been manufactured by DWM since the end of the 1920s and equipped with bullets of 15.0 to 18.59 grams. Although the cartridge can still be accommodated in standard 98 systems, it is a typical caliber for the Mauser magnum system. The old caliber of Harald Wolff (Belgium) and Günter Frères was revived. Johannsen offers five laboratories (one of which is a full mantle), with bullets of 250, 285, 300 and 320 grains. Twelve cartridges cost between 122 and 134 marks. The laboratory with the 300 Grains Swift-A-Frame projectile yielded a V5 of 825 meters / second from the test weapon, which gives an energy of 6616 joules. Depending on the loaded projectile, the energy values ​​range from around 6500 to almost 7000 joules at the mouth. For comparison, the 9.3 × 64 creates approximately 5800 joules. The 9.3 × 70 is suitable for long shots on heavy game. It is ideal for bears, wapiti, moose, lion and plains game. But it is also a good choice for red and black deer.

Thank you Wyoming,
I will be getting 9.3 x 70 dies made by Redding as soon as I can fire five rounds through the rifle. Those would definitely be the cat's ass.

I really appreciate the references. My guess is that the cartridge was available in the early 1930s. I decided to go with the long action Winchester over the Mauser 98 action for ease of building, and the modern metal.

I am with you, shoe horning one in a 98 would be a pain in the ass. Buying a new Prechtl would kill the funding for the rest of the thing.

Well, I still don't have photobucket picture service for 3rd part display. Gun projects are eating into that money.

Anyway, I got my soon to be Winchester 9.3x70mm action from Greg Tannel. He single point recut the receiver's internal threads, uniformed the receiver bore at .705", installed a Tubb lightweight firing pin and cocking pieces, made the firing pin tip smaller, and bushed the receiver face, then opened it to .545" for the new cartridge. The bolt is double shimmed, and the safety is completely timed (and quiet).

I also received a set of one piece bottom metal from PT&G.

The heavy sporter barrel in 9.3 is on hand as well.

Everything in the pile goes off to my assembly, and feeding gunsmith. I used two gunsmiths, one who is a wizard at precision re shaping and "Blue printing of the action, and another who has talent at making the whole mess feed reliably.

I did replace the factory pot metal extractor with a Williams spring steel unit. My action specialist went through, and re did the trigger. The former owner had a hard Arkansas stone, but no ability in theory, or use. Greg re cut the angles to give me a 3.5# trigger as requested for dangerous game use.

I cannot praise Greg Tannel too highly. I expect to be singing the praises of the feeding meister gunsmith.

I will be doing the stock work. I have a laminated wood Winchester Alaskan stock that will get pillars, and a restrained epoxy bedding job and mercury recoil reduction units as needed. Next year it will be put into a Magnum fill McMillan Sako Hunter style stock.

So far, things are on schedule; hopefully they will remain that way. Even though the action is precise, there is enough room for the rigours of dangerous game hunting.

Sounds great. Can you copy and paste a link to your photo album, or does that take buckalooies also ?

It is a choice for me between chemotherapy, and paying the upgrade price at Photobucket.

If anyone has another idea, I am all ears.

The PT&G bottom metal has a ton of slop in it. I sent it back for them to make right. Time will tell. I may switch to Sunny Hill bottom metal, after talking to them. Any feedback would be appreciated. I do have the RUM magazine box and follower, so that is a relief.

As soon as I get my 9.3x64 rifle back from my classic gun gunsmith, I will send the Winchester action to be barreled. Then he can start work on feeding, barrel sights, and sweating on a barrel mounted sling swivel base.

I do hope PT&G can get the bottom metal to work right. If not, there ARE other options.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
It is a choice for me between chemotherapy, and paying the upgrade price at Photobucket.

If anyone has another idea, I am all ears.

The PT&G bottom metal has a ton of slop in it. I sent it back for them to make right. Time will tell. I may switch to Sunny Hill bottom metal, after talking to them. Any feedback would be appreciated. I do have the RUM magazine box and follower, so that is a relief.

As soon as I get my 9.3x64 rifle back from my classic gun gunsmith, I will send the Winchester action to be barreled. Then he can start work on feeding, barrel sights, and sweating on a barrel mounted sling swivel base.

I do hope PT&G can get the bottom metal to work right. If not, there ARE other options.

Lawndart,

I still have a paid account at Photobucket that has been around $45.00 per year, so I can still do 3rd-party photo posting. Photobucket sent me an email where I was told that my account is good to December 2018, at which time I will have to upgrade to the most expensive account.

However, there are places such as "smugmug.com" where you can have your own webpage with your photos, plus 3rd-party photo posting just like "photobucket," and at a fraction of the cost (somewhere around $48.00 per year if you do a one-time payment.

What i plan to do is to get a "smugmug.com" account and let my "photobucket" account expire, since the upgrade will be too expensive.

Shop around and you can find similar photo-hosting websites that cost around $40.00-60.00 per year.

Since chemo killed a friend of mine that didn't have cancer last year. I would update pbucket.
I'm no kind of a fan of the main stream cancer treatments. Put people in the poor house most of the time.
Sorry to hear the bottom metal was such a poor fit.
I've got my 9.3×64 with me and tomorrow I'll be looking for a moose or caribou in the subsistence areas on my way back home.

I guess if I had to pick a personal hero in the gun world it would be Harold.

My lifes use of the 9.3x62 led me to believe it was the equal of the 9.3x64 form a practicle point of view, and that hasn't changed much, but this thread has brought to mind my choice of the 338 Win over the 338 /06 in that I can load the .338 down to 338-06 ballistics but not the other way around.

My point being, it suddenly dawned on me I could do the same with a 9.3x64, I could load it down to 9.3x62 ballistics should the need arise! It only took me 60 years to figure the obvious as I did with the .338 Win.!! actually a couple of posts on this thread did the trick!

When the snow flys in Idaho, that's the next project.

Barrel length was my reason , and reasonable pressure was the reason I went with the 64 over the 62. Barrels around 20" . my 64 is kinda heavy . But it shoots well and fairly easily with a 250 gr bullet@2750 and a 286 gr @ 2650 fps.
But I wouldn't build another 64. I would build a 9.3×300 Win mag.
Get the same velocities as the 64 but with very common , easy to find brass.
Kabluey gets the same velocity I do with his 9.3×338 Win mag. With the same powder charges and bullet weights. But again , he has very common and easy to get brass.

CTF, there ya go confusing me again, I like the idea of a 9.3/.338. The .338 case is an awesome case and whatever one does with it works like a charm, but what about a Ruger 375 case necked down to a .338..Here we go again down the wildcat trail!! I thought it had ended!!

Tho the 375 Ruger is a better case. There are so many dummys up here that shoot the three hunnert that I always find brass laying around . On the ground , on a bench at the range , in trash cans and dumpsters. Even where I caribou hunt . Its laying all over the place.
If I ever find any 9.3×64 Brenneke brass laying on the ground. No doubt its because I was there and lost a case in the weeds or snow.
I know that PTG and I'm pretty sure Clymer already has prints for both the 9.3x338 and 9.3x300 Winchester. . both would make a great 20" barreled carbine. ;-) . Sorry for the derail !

I have used Fotki as a photo hosting service for about 17 years. Never had a problem.

Let me know if you want me to post pics for you on this thread. I know I would like to see them.

I started using imgbb . so far I really like it. Very fast uploading. I need to figure out the resizing . But it's free and it gets the point across.
I tried the one RIP and Stradling are using and couldn't figure it out. Imgbb is pretty easy pie !

PT&G made good on the bottom metal. It is tight as a Good Catholic Girl.

I have all the components, and reamer ready to go. Just waiting on my gunsmith to finish my 9.3x64 up before I can ship the components.

Thanks for the info about picture hosting.

My chemotherapy is oral, and not horribly expensive. it keeps me alive, and I can walk some days. Still beats a dirt nap.