I finally got my plastic Savage model 11 shooting well after time and a new barrel from Savage. Here is what I have found so far.

My factory ammo for Remington 140 and Hornaday 139 both gave me 2825 to 2850 while my 42 gr Varget gave me 2700-2715 with the 140/139 grain bullets. I use the cheap Caldwell unit to check vel. The H 139 in BT seems to do a better than the 139 flat base.

Hodgdon Data shows for VARGET
139 and 24" barrel max 43.5 gr and 2877 fps 50,000 cup
140 max 42.2 gr and 2819 fps 49,800 cup

Interesting on the max difference a grain makes.

I had pulled some old posts from 10-15 years ago and Varget was a very popular powder then.


What powder are you using and can you match the Factory velocity? What powder are you using and can you match the Factory velocity? Curious what powder both companies are using to gt what they get.

There are some earlier discussions of the POS stock vs a Boyd's or others.

There are articles in Gunsmithing forum if you want to work on your POS plastic stock. I did a stock strengthening of the grip and the fore arm. The little added weight makes the gun feel like a real gun but

I also did a custom rebed. Probably wasted my time on the Devcon bedding job. I know I will not do another plastic bedding the way savages has the back support screw vs one in the tang.

Gun was shooting 3/4 and 7/8 for 3 shot groups with Hornaday 139 BT and Nosler 140 BTs and the 42 gr Varget.

To do it again I would probably get a Boyd's and see if they would cut the holes for the piller and redo it there but the back support is so small the way Savages makes the gun it is a harder bed job with the block out needed.

I have yet to get out and shoot it since but what is the difference with 1/2 vs 3/4 group at 200-250 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by JimTx:
I finally got my plastic Savage model 11 shooting well after time and a new barrel from Savage. Here is what I have found so far.

My factory ammo for Remington 140 and Hornaday 139 both gave me 2825 to 2850 while my 42 gr Varget gave me 2700-2715 with the 140/139 grain bullets. I use the cheap Caldwell unit to check vel. The H 139 in BT seems to do a better than the 139 flat base.

Hodgdon Data shows
139 and 24" barrel max 43.5 gr and 2877 fps 50,000 cup
140 max 42.2 gr and 2819 fps 49,800 cup

Interesting on the max difference a grain makes.

I had pulled some old posts from 10-15 years ago and Varget was a very popular powder then.


What powder are you using and can you match the Factory velocity? What powder are you using and can you match the Factory velocity? Curious what powder both companies are using to gt what they get.

There are some earlier discussions of the POS stock vs a Boyd's or others.

There are articles in Gunsmithing forum if you want to work on your POS plastic stock. I did a stock strengthening of the grip and the fore arm. The little added weight makes the gun feel like a real gun but

I also did a custom rebed. Probably wasted my time on the Devcon bedding job. I know I will not do another plastic bedding the way savages has the back support screw vs one in the tang.

Gun was shooting 3/4 and 7/8 for 3 shot groups with Hornaday 139 BT and Nosler 140 BTs and the 42 gr Varget.

To do it again I would probably get a Boyd's and see if they would cut the holes for the piller and redo it there but the back support is so small the way Savages makes the gun it is a harder bed job with the block out needed.

I have yet to get out and shoot it since but what is the difference with 1/2 vs 3/4 group at 200-250 yards.

Rl-17, 140gr Ballistic tips @ 2915 fps in a 22" barrel. Savage Axis II.

Under perfectly calm conditions 200 yd groups should be about 2 x the size of 100 yd groups, 250 2 1/2 x, etc.

I view anything close to 1" @ 100 yds as acceptable for hunting out to 400 yds as long as range can be accurately estimated.

I routinely shoot whitetails at 75 yds to 250 yds, Just sight in 2 1/2 high at 100 yds and hold vertical center of the lungs above the front leg from 10 yds to 275 yds. You will never be more than 3" + or - zero over those distances with a .284 polymer tipped 140 gr bullet @ 2800-2900 fps.

I have had very good accuracy with AR 2208 (Varget) and AR 2209 (H4350)

Re15 & N150 also work well.

You cannot go too hot with H4350.

Since I own a 280 Ack Imp, I do not bother to try for high velocity with my Kimber 7mm08. I am very happy with its accuracy and that it gives me consistent 6 inch groups at 400 meters with 3 shots. 140 grs & 2700 fps is not really that bad for deer.

Interestingly I got 2600 fps with 160 gr Nosler Accubonds and AR 2209 (H4350) Never tried it on game with this rifle.

I have been loading the 7-08 for about 25 years..my go to powder's are RL-15 and IMR 4064 42.0 grains of either 140 sierra btsp most of the time I'm getting around .625 - .825 groups at getting around 2825 to 2850 fps with rem. 700 24 in. S.S. barrel. loaded some yesterday with 42.0 of IMR4064 with rem brass, S&B primers 140 NOSLER BALLISTIC TIP.. 46.0 grains of H-380 is also a good grouping powder... I never could get VARGET to work for me..

Varget was a popular powder back in 2004 era.

I bought some and never got around to loading. The velocity and groups are off 42 gr of Varget. I have loaded 42.5/43/ and 43.5 in the same and plan to work up to see what I get and how hot.

It is just hard to stomach that two brands of factory powder do ~2830-2850fps in the model 11 with a 22" barrel but I need to see what these larger powder loads do too but not sure that I will see 2850. I can live with 2800 if the group stays under one inch.

I shot some factory rifle ammo once. I believe it was 1969. I'd roll my own even if it cost 5x as much because of the therapeutic nature of the act of reloading.
Oh, my reloads are pretty good too.

Please just pretend you care about what I have to say,
Zeke

The 7mm08 became a factory round around 1980, IIRC.

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I shot some factory rifle ammo once. I believe it was 1969. I'd roll my own even if it cost 5x as much because of the therapeutic nature of the act of reloading.
Oh, my reloads are pretty good too.

Please just pretend you care about what I have to say,
Zeke

You need to ask yourself, what's 100-150 fps difference equate to in performance on game? I wouldn't worry about that speed difference, you're still going to kill deer and other game no problem. Just my take on it.

I appreciate the comments. Have yet to get up and shoot.

Spent the weekend watching the two grand boys at 1.5 and 3.5. Sure seems a lot more work now than it did 25-35 years ago chasing 4 kids.

Weekend before that I was trying to split my bee hive and make two hives. I had bees growing up 50 + years ago and like with kids it was a lot simpler back then.

Bees are a lot of work now with the pests that have come into the country the last 30 years: Two types of mites and the African Small Black Hive beetle. They make beekeeping work because these pests can ruin / kill your beehives before you know it.
Have a great summer. Thanks for the help. Jim
Boys and our toys.

Can't remember when but my first 7-08 was when it was still a wildcat. Stamped: 7mm-.308. H4895 has been my go to powder almost from the first. Once Rem brought out the 7-08, Varget was touted as a good powder. I never could get it to work as good as some others. H414 being one.
I own 4 7-08s at present and I have never shot a single round of store bought ammo through any of themm.

H414 is an outstanding powder but its terribly underloaded by the reloading books, why that is I have no idea, guess a hanger on from the often underloaded 7x57, and fear of frivouslous law suits plays a part..

your stated loads on varget + 139 are about the same as my go to loads, when i used varget .. have since switched to h335 .. which gives better results in 708, for me

I'm glad to hear that the factory ammo for your 7mm-08 lives up to spec. I was ill for a couple of years and didn't handload, so my sons and I shot Federal 150g Nosler Partition factory ammo through our 270s. When I got better I clocked it with my Chrony. It was a terrible 2650 fps compared to 2910 fps for my relatively mild handloads out of the same rifles. Accuracy was of course better with the handloads as well. No more factory 270 ammo for us! We do shoot Remington Safari grade 300g A-Frames out of our 375 and it clocked at just about 2500 fps which is fine by myself and my sons.

100 fps difference no big deal, 250 fps big deal!

Never had factory ammo beat handloads for accuracy!

Regardless of caliber.

HA you've never shot my handloads then....

You shot mine though!

I have seen other people’s handloads where no 2 rounds were the same!

Different lengths, different powder charges.

WALTER was loading some ammo, and I gave him an RCBS funnel that I had opened up.

The powder was falling around the case neck!

I have always done case preparation by hand cleaning primer pockets neck trimming, neck chamfering etc, weigh every charge, and mic every fifth cartridge or so for overall length. We typically get nickel sized 3 shot groups with each of my son's BDLs in 270 (1 LH, 1 RH) when it was just me shooting my load clocked just over 3000 fps with a 150g Partition, used that load for 30 years.

My daughter's rifle is a Savage 10FM with 20" barrel. Factory 150s don't go faster than 2,550. We handload it with Barnes 150 and Reloader 19. It only gets 2,600 fps with that. We're a little above listed charges; it's just a slow rifle. But that load is accurate and had no problem taking a moose at 165 yards, so we don't worry about the missing 150 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
I'm glad to hear that the factory ammo for your 7mm-08 lives up to spec. I was ill for a couple of years and didn't handload, so my sons and I shot Federal 150g Nosler Partition factory ammo through our 270s. When I got better I clocked it with my Chrony. It was a terrible 2650 fps compared to 2910 fps for my relatively mild handloads out of the same rifles. Accuracy was of course better with the handloads as well. No more factory 270 ammo for us! We do shoot Remington Safari grade 300g A-Frames out of our 375 and it clocked at just about 2500 fps which is fine by myself and my sons.

100 fps difference no big deal, 250 fps big deal!

The 150gr Federal factory ammo in 7mm-08 is also a bit slow at just over 2500fps although some find it quite accurate.

Some of he first batches of Remington factory ammo loaded for the 7mm-08 when the cartridge was introduced by Remington used Hornady 139gr Spire Point projectiles as Remington did not have enough stock of their 140gr Corelok projectiles to load for the new cartridge.

I began to reload for my fathers new Ruger MKI 7mm-08 back in the 80's using 44.0grs IMR4064 with 139gr Hornady Spire Points which exactly duplicated the factory published velocity of 2864fps out of a 24" barrel.
When I chronographed one of the 139gr factory ammo rounds to my surprise I got a MV of 2964fps a full 100fps up on published velocity. Of course I re-checked this with a couple more rounds and got the same reading.
Well known firearms writer, Bob Bell, wrote an article in an earlier Handloader Digest about the 7mm-08, apparently he was the first to take game with the new factory cartridge having been an avid fan of the wildcat 7mm-308 for many years. He was using the 18.5" barreled Remington 788 which was the first rifle chambered for the new Factory 7mm-08.
His article was on his trials where he had an action set up with a 30" barrel and then shot various loads through it shortening the barrel approximately inch by inch and recording the results. At 24" he fired one of the original Remington factory cartridges with the 139gr Hornady projectile and got a velocity of 2964fps. Like me he was very surprised and retested using a different chronograph getting the same results.
I recall pulling a projectile and weighing the powder from one of these factory rounds which from memory was about 47.0gr but of course I could not identify it. This fast ammo showed no pressure signs in my fathers Ruger and he shot a few packets of the factory ammo until we had enough cases for reloading.

In later years I have used 47.0gr AR2209 (H4350) with a 140gr Sierra projectile for excellent accuracy and velocities hitting 2900fps from my own Remington 700 SPS with a 24" barrel. I had one of the old Remington rounds left and one day at the range shot this in the Remington 700 and it did chronograph at 2964fps.
Hornady Superformance factory ammo with 139gr Hornady SST (Factory spec 2950fps) chronographs at 2900fps out of the same rifle my son now 'owns' and I have got this same velocity using Win748 and the SST projectile in handloads. Accuracy is okay for hunting with both the Superformance and handloaded 139gr SST ammo but not as good as I can achieve with Sierra bullets and AR2208 (Varget) powder.

What Bob Bell proved back then and what I have also found is that muzzle velocity does not change much for the 7mm-08 in the 20"-24" barrel length range. Both my sons use 7mm-08s with suppressors and the barrels have been shortened back to 22" the same as my unsuppressed Marlin 7mm08. My handloads for all three rifles give good velocities with 139gr/140gr projectiles, up to factory spec of 2800+ fps.

I tried 4064, 4350, Varget, and Benchmark but the most accuracy and velocity I’ve gotten is from CFE 223.

I’m shooting 115 gr Barnes TTSXs, btw.