I'm sure this question has been asked before, BUT.... I want to buy another toy and want some opinions. Currently, I've got a Remington 308 that I use on pigs, goats and deer in Australia and New Zealand, and a Parker Hale 375H&H that's been to Zimbabwe and will hopefully go again next year. I'm looking for another toy that fills the gap between the two.

Specifically, I want a lightweight stainless/synthetic outfit that can perform over long ranges in alpine conditions. Its intended to be used to hunt wapiti, tahr and chamois in New Zealand, ibex and maral stag in central Asia, and sheep and goat in North America. I rely on friends to reload for the 308 and 375. My knowledge and interest of ballistics is limited to say the least.

Am I best off with a 300mag or a 7mm for such an outfit, and should I go for a Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum or a Winchester Short Magnum. The two rifles I've got in mind are the Remington Titanium and the Kimber Montana.

Thanks in advance.

tuff call..... get both ............ more toys more good
greg

7mm would be by far your best choice in my oppinion.

Here are a couple of links that might prove interesting to you.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/seven_092105/index.html
http://www.netrifle.com/forum1/default.asp

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbo:
7mm would be by far your best choice in my oppinion.

I agree, go with the 7mm REM Mag.

I would go with a 300 win mag. however you can't go wrong with a 7mm rem mag either. Both offer factory loads that will fit every need.

Either will do but I'd pick the 7 MM mag for my gun.

quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:
I'm sure this question has been asked before, BUT.... I want to buy another toy and want some opinions. Currently, I've got a Remington 308 that I use on pigs, goats and deer in Australia and New Zealand, and a Parker Hale 375H&H that's been to Zimbabwe and will hopefully go again next year. I'm looking for another toy that fills the gap between the two.

Specifically, I want a lightweight stainless/synthetic outfit that can perform over long ranges in alpine conditions. Its intended to be used to hunt wapiti, tahr and chamois in New Zealand, ibex and maral stag in central Asia, and sheep and goat in North America. I rely on friends to reload for the 308 and 375. My knowledge and interest of ballistics is limited to say the least.

Am I best off with a 300mag or a 7mm for such an outfit, and should I go for a Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum or a Winchester Short Magnum. The two rifles I've got in mind are the Remington Titanium and the Kimber Montana.

Thanks in advance.

For your purposes, there isn't much to choose between the two. The .300 is a bit better, because it can launch heavier bullets than the 7mm Magnums. But I personally have used two 7mm's with great success, the 7mm Remington Magnum, and the 7X57mm Mauser. The 7X57mm's actual performance on game is a long way above what its ballistic figures would make one expect.

The range of bullet sizes are much more varied for the .300 mag than the 7mm. I own and shoot several 7mm's and I certainly would not swap my .300 Winny for any of them. The heavier end of the bullet selection is where the .300 shines. Good shooting.

When you talk about light weight rifles for the mountains, I want no part of the recoil from a .300winmag. I'ld look into a 7rm. A 160gr bullet @ 3000fps+ is flat shooting & hard hitting & can be done in a 7-7.5# rifle w/o beating you to death. Mountain game don't require big heavy bulets, but you will need bullets of good bc @ decent vel. for possible long shot in windy conditions.

Here's another vote for the 7mm Remington Magnum. For what you'll use it for the power is sufficient. Also, just try to find a bullet with a better balistic coefficient than the 7mm 162 gr. Hornady A-Max at 0.625. Load it with A-Maxs and you have a gun with flat enough trajectory for consistent killing hits on deer sized game at even 400 yards. The recoil isn't bad either which is a consideration in a light gun. If you put a brake on it, you'll have a gun that even a woosey could shoot (not much more than an unbraked 22-250).

As for the other 7mm offerings such as the 7mm STW, 7mm WSM, etc., if you look at the ballistics, they really don't have much advantage over the 7mm Remington Magnum.

I’d go with a Kimber 8400 Montana in .300 Win Mag. It's light I've found all of the Kimbers I've owned and or shot to be very nice and very accurate.

You can shoot 165 gr or 180 Gr bullets at 3000fps + The recoil from a .300 is not any more than the recoil from a 7MM shooting the same weight bullet at the similar velocity. When you remove the physiological factor it is just some of that there basic physics stuff.

Overall both rounds are pretty close in capability with the edge going to the .300 with the ability to shoot heavier bullets.

I have a Dakota M-97 lightweight hunter in .300WM. It is plenty accurate it is plenty light. If you can't handle the recoil from it you should just stay home and bake cookies or make floral arraignments for the little old ladies at the retirement home!

Spartan,

I have had Remmy's and have now bought five new Kimbers. Three of them are the SS/Syn Montana model and one a 270 WSM. The Remmy is an old obsolete design with a compromised trigger-safety system that now does not lock the bolt. Skip over it. Also the 7mm SAUM is dead.

The Kimber is the best American made production rifle. Get one in 300 WSM. A 7mm mag of some sort would be good too but the 7mm WSM is dead also. The Kimber in 300 WM is not a light rifle but a long action cartridge stuck in a magnum action that has a spacer in the mag.

On ballistics just keep asking questions and reading up on it. The reading/paper part is fun but you have to confirm the actual shooting at longer ranges and a laser is a modern way to do it along with the data at hand.

Good luck and welcome to the forum by the way.

quote:

The Kimber is the best American made production rifle. Get one in 300 WSM

Hard to disagree with that


I wish Kimber would offer their stainless model in something like a Mcmillan stock. I'm not much of a fan of their plastic stocks The wood stocked rifles are a nice looking piece IMO.

Will the 7wsm surely die? Wonder how many Wins. in that caliber are out there...

Either is a fine choice...Kimber rifle! If I were choosing, I would go with the 7 mag and 160 or 175 grain bullets. You need a little more weight for the 300's than the 7's. Shooting a 7mm Rem mag reminds me of shooting a 30-06. IMO the short magnums work but are not the equal of the full length ones. Doesn't really matter unless you routinely shoot at over 300 yards. Are the Remington titanium rifles well made?

Here's another vote for the 7m/m Remington magnum as I think in your case it's the best fit between .308 Win and .375 H&H.
I'm a died in the wool 30 calibre fan, however, in this case I'd avoid the 300 Winny. With one .30" already in the house there is good reason to avoid stocking multiple boxes of bullets designed for different velocities.

Handloading issues aside, you already posess two of the best hunting cartridges available with a plethera of factory fodder; Remington's big seven would be another.

Just had my burned up 7mm RM rebarreled to .300 WM- wish I would have stuck to 7mm RM.

A Kimber Montana in 7MM WSM would be my choice without doubt.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/8400wsm/montana.php

Considering mentioning the 308 and the 375 as you current other two rifles...

Handloading both the 7 Mag and the 300 Mag.. you should be able to shoot either if you tote a 375...

As was mentioned above by Phurley : " The range of bullet sizes are much more varied for the .300 mag than the 7mm. I own and shoot several 7mm's and I certainly would not swap my .300 Winny for any of them. The heavier end of the bullet selection is where the .300 shines...

I agree whole heartedly...the 300 is going to have more wallop at both ends but you can handle it is you are shooting a 375...

A 220 grain Nosler Partition with a MV in the 2900 plus range is a pretty flat shooting, very hard hitting and deep penetrating combo...

However, if you were looking at the 300s to just load 180 grain bullets and down, then I'd just stick with a 7 Mag with a 160 or 175 grain projectile..

The 300s take off from the equal to the 7 Mag, when the bullet weights climb over 180 grains..

I am a sectional density believer when it comes to ability to penetrate and also just plain fly flat out the muzzle..

and for your handloader friends....

80 to 85 grains of H 1000, with a 200 to 220 grain 30 cal bullet will get you into the 2900 fps range with either bullet weight.....just remember to work up for safety's sake..

and I just thought of this.. you gents in Oz have access to some great bullets by Woodleigh that are even potentially heavier to pick from... yeah that considered... definitely the 300 Mag...
cheers
seafire

My feeling is that any game that you would really like to use 200-220-grain bullets from a .300 Mag, I'd probably just carry my .375 with 270's at 2750 fps or so. With your combination of rifles you already have, the 7Mag makes more sense to me. This will give you a light recoiling long range rifle that will do some things a .308 won't and a lot less weight than a .375.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Is it just me, or does it take a long time to make a decision on a new toy?

I'll post some details at a later date once I've made a decision.

I've owned 7RMs and 300s, My choice in your situation would have to be the 7 for several reasons. The main being the 7 has less recoil in a light weight rifle. The other being your LR concerns, both rifles are well suited for the longer shots but, my experiences w/ both rounds has been that the 7 offers a bit better point blank range if that interests you.

Good Luck

Reloader

I think I would pick witch rifle you like best in either caliber, both will doo fine, but in a light weight I would opt for the 7 mag over the 300 win...tj3006

If I were limited to only three rifles and given the choices you have I would take the Kimber in 300 win mag without as moments hesitation. If I were stuck with the 7mm Rem Mag I wouldn't think twice about it and would just go huntinhg and forget about it.

The 300 is more versitile and has more bullet choices. In the USA ammo for a 300 is generaly more available than 7mm. Balisticaly speaking there is no bad choice the 2 calibers are very close in performance IMO

[QUOTE] I'm looking for another toy that fills the gap between the two.

Call Tony Pizzata at Yaffa Publications in Sydney. If you are familiar with Sporting Shooter and Bacon Busters, you will recognize the name. My choice would be the 300 Win Mag. But, Tony is a diehard for the 7mm and when I went over and hunted with him I used his. I also believe he took a few of your big buffs with one. A Blaser, and if I was starting over again that is the rifle I would buy. You plan to travel. The Blaser comes apart for a smaller case. I have never handled a rifle that returns to POA so consistently after taking down and re assembling than the Blaser.

I have had both. There are no flies on the 7MM Mag, Still I like the 300 Mag best.

Bill, I am also a big fan of the Blaser.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
The Remmy is an old obsolete design...

Obsolete?



Yep, just like the old pre-64 M70's, and the even older Mauser 98's.

Nothing old is any good....

And what about those old Savages? They must REALLY be obsolete.

7mm Rem mag, or if you like the short action Kimber get a .270WSM

7mm Remington Magnum.

I have a 7MM REMMAG love it its a great caliber for New Zealand.

I would go for the 300 for the 180-220 grain bullets when hunting North America and Africa.

Went through the same thing myself a few months ago and I bought a 7mm rem.

I have a 7mm Rem Mag but I also have two 300 mags. If I had to choose, I take one of the 300s
because you have a wider selection of heaver bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:
Am I best off with a 300mag or a 7mm for such an outfit, and should I go for a Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum or a Winchester Short Magnum. The two rifles I've got in mind are the Remington Titanium and the Kimber Montana.

Thanks in advance.

For starters forget the short magnums. I use both 7MM Remington and 300 Magnum. For deer size down the 7MM gets the green light for anything larger go with the 300. It has a lot more bullet choices.

This thread cracks me up!

I have several rifles with overlapping performance and I guess I am as strange about picking one out of the bunch as any of you.

I have a .308W with a short barrel and it goes as a ride-along a lot. But I still have an '06. (or .30 Gov't ) I have a 7mm RM that I love and use often, but I skipped the 300's as I already had a .338 WM.

With a .308 and a .375 there really isn't a need for heavier bullets than the 7mm can deliver that the .375 woudn't handle beautifully. The 7mm is close to the .300 in performance until you go above 180's. So unless your wanting a backup for the .375, I'd probably pick the 7mm.


Having proven to the world I am helpless against my gun accumulation sickness, I will now also admit that I still would own a .300 and may even look for one. But it has to have some appeal other than just it's caliber. If I ever ran into a .300 H&H in an old Win M70 while in posession of funds I'd have a hard time passing it up.

Is there a twelve step program for this?

Whenever I wonder how sick I am, I read about Varmintguy's accumulation antics and I feel better! Nate

Hello the Campfire:
If this thread can stand one more opinion, I will spout off (even if it can't).

I have both a 7mm Remington Mag. and a .300 Mag, a Weatherby Mag. I like both and would use either for long range shooting. I personally feel that the .300's are easier to load for. That said, my most used go to rifle is a .280 Remington. AKA the 7mm Express. It has almost the same long range ballistics as the 7mm Mag, less kick, and is MUCH more accurate. I would look at this if I were you. Youcan use any of the 7mm bullets and it can be loaded up or down quite a bit. I usually use a 139 grain Accubond, but my biggist game around here is a smallish White tail. I would take it just about anywhere though, and use the 7mm or .300 as a back up. Mine is a 03 slickeed up with great wood and a good barrel.
Just my old fart humble opinion.
Save me a place at the dinner table in case I ever get down there. It is one of my before I die trips.
Judge Sharpe

quote:

For starters forget the short magnums.

Why would you say that ?

A friend of mine has been a long time user(25+ years) of the 7mm Rem mag on our larger deer(sambar) and thought it the ultimate cartridge, the only other rifle he uses is a 338 win mag.

A few years back he bought one of the first 270WSM's to hit our shores, for use on small deer(fallow). This cartridge impressed him so much that it soon had replaced his 7mm rem mag as his prefered cartridge for big deer.

Last year he bought a 7mm WSM simply because it was going at a price he couldn't ignore.

He told me that the 270WSM is the equal of the 7mm rem mag in every way except bullet selection and is easier to reload for, he said the 7mm WSM is slightly better than the 7mm rem mag in all area's and is easier to load for.

I know where there is a good 7mm rem mag for sale if anyone is interested ?

I would be very keen to know of your experience with the short mags that allows you to make such an informed decision.

gents--there are a lot of good comments on this forum about the 300 and 7mm, BUT when someone interjects opinions saying that the 270 is equal. the 270 is NOT even in the same class as the 300 or 7mm nor will it ever be. most people are brain washed by mr. o'conner's many articles during his employ in the magazine business. the first strike against the 270 is accuracy, which it dosen;t have.

quote:

Originally posted by BigNate:
This thread cracks me up!

Is there a twelve step program for this?

Whenever I wonder how sick I am, I read about Varmintguy's accumulation antics and I feel better! Nate

There only one problem with owning a few more guns than the next guy. It's called a wife in most cases and some guys are just hen pecked enough to feel guilty. I'm going to go look at guns to buy now!

quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:

.....Specifically, I want a lightweight stainless/synthetic outfit that can perform over long ranges in alpine conditions. Its intended to be used to hunt wapiti, tahr and chamois in New Zealand, ibex and maral stag in central Asia, and sheep and goat in North America.....

Thanks in advance.

30/06 will do everything you mention. no fuss.
just need to have confidence in yourself and know your rifle well.

quote:

the first strike against the 270 is accuracy, which it dosen;t have.

That is a silly thing to say, the 270 is just as accurate as any other caliber out there, the only disadvantage the 270 has it the number of bullets made for it.

Also there are many out there who will say that the 270 weatherby is superior in a number of ways to the 7mm rem mag and I certainly think the 270 WSM is up there with it.