Everyone knows good follow-through is critical in golf, batting a baseball, wing-shooting, even in making love.

But it is surprising how many shooters don't act as if they understand it is essential for good riflery too. At least if one wants the best accuracy he and his rifle can produce it is.

Most folk easily acknowledge ,when reminded of it or after thinking it over, that it is needed for running game. Yet, not too many seem to realize it is just as important in shooting small groups from the bench as it is anywhere else.

At the bench, luckily, it is much easier to learn to do it right and make it a habit than it is in just about any other kind of shooting.

Real simple...when you are on aim with your rifle over the rest and in the act of firing, just force yourself to remember to keep looking through the sights (or scope) at the point you intended to hit both as and after the shot goes off.

Sure, with a lot of hunting guns, particularly those with heavier recoil, it is perhaps impossible to actually keep looking through the sights at the target as the rifle rares back. But it isn't impossible to TRY to keep on aim (and in the position you held up until the shot) both as the gun fires and after.

(Works well with Bullseye-style pistol shooting, too.)

If you're not doing it already, try it. The results may tickle your fancy (AND eliminate some of those pesky fliers).

Try some serious off-hand shooting with an air rifle or flintlock and you will understand

When I used to shoot IHMSA matches I would typically practice by myself. I got into the habit of lifting my head to see where the shots were going and of course, my scores plummeted until I corrected the problem. Follow through is very important.

Yes, forgot about handgun and rifle silhouette shooting. Very important in both of those.

If anyone ever hears guys complaining that their group was great until the very last shot, you can almost bet the complainers looked up too quick to see where the last one went...and didn't follow through first.

I use to hear about this when I first started off shooting offhand.Tried to understand what it meant then I figured I did and it is what you say.Whatever it is just some bullshit that means nothing.The only thing that counts when you are shooting offhand is seeing the bullseye clearly and your bead and not moving the rest is all bullshit.It sounds easy but it is incredibly hard to do.If you shoot offhand with a scope you will be able to call your shot because you can see clearly where your sight was when you broke the trigger.This is something you can never do with iron sights.So this is proof that follow through is nonsense.The saying that has meaning is this-dont flinch.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I use to hear about this when I first started off shooting offhand.Tried to understand what it meant then I figured I did and it is what you say.Whatever it is just some bullshit that means nothing.The only thing that counts when you are shooting offhand is seeing the bullseye clearly and your bead and not moving the rest is all bullshit.It sounds easy but it is incredibly hard to do.If you shoot offhand with a scope you will be able to call your shot because you can see clearly where your sight was when you broke the trigger.This is something you can never do with iron sights.So this is proof that follow through is nonsense.The saying that has meaning is this-dont flinch.

Why would I listen to guys like AC, BT and Phil Shoemaker(one of the most recognised and respected guides in the world) when our resident expert, shootaway, points out that they are full of BS?

The cow buffalo video is proof that you can cleanly kill game with ZERO follow-through.

Follow through bullshit like believing we can guide the bullet using some magic senses-what a load of crap-believe what you want-but you will see that only people who cant shoot buy this crap-which means almost everybody.

Shootacow,
We see the results of your shooting in your other thread. It is apparent that you are a terrible shooter, always have been and always will be. If you had ever excelled in any form of shooting you would not be running your mouth about follow through. Follow through when shooting at moving targets is very important. However you cannot hit fixed targets so shooting at moving targets is beyond your comprehension.

Here is your other thread -
keep showing your ignorance and we will keep laughing
Predictable Accuracy

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Follow through bullshit like believing we can guide the bullet using some magic senses-what a load of crap-believe what you want-but you will see that only people who cant shoot buy this crap-which means almost everybody.

This is a very good thread......well, most of it.....

The best platforms with which to illustrate the results of poor follow-through are accurate .22 rf rifles at 100 yds. If you think AC is full of crap, just get on silhouette .22 rifle and shoot 100 yd targets without a care about follow through. Then let someone who understands the concept humiliate you (in a good way).

You can also see the results of poor follow-through shooting bullseye pistol with 650-700 fps loads.

Low velocity magnifies the inaccuracy caused by poor follow-through, but it happens with .300 Roys, too.

Sam

I really appreciate threads like these. Lately, I have been doing a lot more shooting and concentrating on the basics to become a more fundamentally sound shooter. Instead of working around the shortcomings in my shooting, I have decided attack them head on.

Here look it is just as simple as this man says.If you dont take my word for it listen to his-the first few sentences or so that come out of his mouth.
just as simple as this

``ONCE THE GUN GOES OFF THE BULLET SHOULD IMPACT WHERE YOUR SIGHTS HAVE BEEN LIGNED UP``

Comments like ``Ì really appreciate threads like this`` and ``This is a very good thread``

Of course this is a good thread for you because I am teaching you how to shoot for free!

Short story on follow-through.

I shoot NRA & CMP HIgh Power rifle with an AR service rifle.

Was having lots of off call shots at 600 during a mid range match.

Scorer leaned forward and said " hold the trigger back and don't exhale until the target is pulled".

Now, HP is fired prone with a sling, nothing else.

After the first string of 20, and Gary's adice applied, I fired the best remaining 60 shots at 600 I ever fired before.

Follow through is nothing more than a dedicated intentional continuation of the shot plan after the trigger breaks.

Nothing less will keep your rounds where you want them.

I did the math, and yes, bore time is on the order of less than 20 millionths of a second, but a deliberate "follow through" truly does effect your outcome, everytime.

Now, at close range and on snap shots, it may have less influence, but still a shpot plan an muscle memory requirement to it right all the time.

What a follow through really does is prevent the shooter from beginning the exhale, trigger reset etc "before" the actual shot is delivered. It is more of a subtle thing than most account it for.

Gary is a 70+ year old guy who routinely beats everyone else at Mid range prone matches, and when guys like that give unsolicited advice, it is best to listen and incorporate that into your shot plan.

I find AC's reminders of the basics helpful. We often get used to shooting on "autopilot" especially when we have been doing it for 45+ years or more. After an accident that took me out of shooting with a back injury and two operations I found myself struggling when I started up shooting small bore silhouette. I am using the silhouette as a way to get back to being able to hold a rifle off hand and improve my shooting. Although I thought I was doing poorly I find myself shooting high scores at the matches. There are a couple of reasons for this. I am actively competing against only myself and have shown improvement at every shoot. I dry fire practice at home concentrating on the basics. AC's reminders have been a big help. Working on getting the strength and fine motor skills back also help.

So, Thanks AC! you are helping me get back into accurate shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Follow through bullshit like believing we can guide the bullet using some magic senses-what a load of crap-believe what you want-but you will see that only people who cant shoot buy this crap-which means almost everybody.

Shootaway, You are correct in the fact that once the bullet has left the barrel there is nothing else you can do but next time you shoot a round of sporting clays, skeet or trap try lowering the gun as soon as you pull the trigger and see how well you score.

Here is a simple test to see how well you are following through on your shots. Pick up a scope sighted rifle(the scope is critical). After you make sure the rifle is not loaded, aim at a light bulb sized target at 75 to 100 yards. Try to get the sear to break while the cross hairs are on the bulb. Watch how far the cross hairs jump when the sear breaks. If you follow through perfectly there will be no jump. Where the cross hairs are after the jump is where the bullet would land if you had fired a live round. Be prepared to be humbled. Try it shootaway, you may learn something.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Follow through bullshit like believing we can guide the bullet using some magic senses-what a load of crap-believe what you want-but you will see that only people who cant shoot buy this crap-which means almost everybody.

Shootaway, You are correct in the fact that once the bullet has left the barrel there is nothing else you can do but next time you shoot a round of sporting clays, skeet or trap try lowering the gun as soon as you pull the trigger and see how well you score.

That is true for shooting clays I do not disagree.However we are not discussing that follow through-one that is very real.
Glad to see that you agree with me 458.You are a wise man.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Here is a simple test to see how well you are following through on your shots. Pick up a scope sighted rifle(the scope is critical). After you make sure the rifle is not loaded, aim at a light bulb sized target at 75 to 100 yards. Try to get the sear to break while the cross hairs are on the bulb. Watch how far the cross hairs jump when the sear breaks. If you follow through perfectly there will be no jump. Where the cross hairs are after the jump is where the bullet would land if you had fired a live round. Be prepared to be humbled. Try it shootaway, you may learn something.

465H&H

more and more bullshit coming out of you 465

There is something between trigger/sear release and bullet exit. That thing is a time interval. The interval is never zero. During that time interval poor follow-through adversely affects bullet impact.

I am astonished that anyone would attempt to vociferously defend so patently indefensible a position. I am reminded of that old Proverbs 17:28 paraphrase: "It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."

Shootaway, you have decisively removed all doubt.

Sam

shootaway,

Try the test! What do you have to lose?

465H&H

I have and agree with you but after the shot is off the rifle will move-no doubt.The object is to minimize the movement BEFORE the trigger breaks.What happens afterwords means nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have and agree with you but after the shot is off the rifle will move-no doubt.The object is to minimize the movement BEFORE the trigger breaks.What happens afterwords means nothing.

shootaway,

Once more, there is a lag time between when the sear breaks and the gun fires. It is during this time period that gun movement must be held to a minimum. The lag time is sufficient that during combat pistol competition, I have occasionally been able to move the front sight of my pistol from a C zone hit to an A zone hit during that lag.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have and agree with you but after the shot is off the rifle will move-no doubt.The object is to minimize the movement BEFORE the trigger breaks.What happens afterwords means nothing.

If that was true then a fast lock time would mean nothing and we would shoot just as well with flintlocks.

Although lock time and the time for ignition and the length of time the bullet is in the barrel is minute --- so is the amount of movement it takes for the end of a barrel to move enough to cause a bullet to move out of the X ring.

For the sake of those who haven't thought follow-through completely through (isn't that a tad ironic?)...

No, you can't mentally guide a bullet down-range once it has left the influence of the muzzle blast after escaping the barrel. Nor can a golfer mentally guide a golf ball down range once it has left the face of his club.

But follow-through improves both the golfer's game and the shooter's scores/groups.

It is the way the golfer makes sure his entire swing is consistent and correct, rather than trying to make it correct only until just the exact instant the ball is struck by the face of the club.

Likewise, shooting follow-through is the way the shooter assures that his position doesn't change, his muscles don't relax (and move), and his hold stays "true" until the bullet has left both the barrel and the influence of the muzzle blast.

It is most important in offhand shooting because of the less stable hold an offhand shooter has. During the time the trigger is pulled, the striker falls, the powder ignites, and the bullet accelerates down the barrel and eventually leaves the scene, lots of things can happen.

A change of only .001" in position during those few milliseconds will move the POI by about 1" for every hundred yards of bullet travel.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have and agree with you but after the shot is off the rifle will move-no doubt.The object is to minimize the movement BEFORE the trigger breaks.What happens afterwords means nothing.

If that was true then a fast lock time would mean nothing and we would shoot just as well with flintlocks.

Although lock time and the time for ignition and the length of time the bullet is in the barrel is minute --- so is the amount of movement it takes for the end of a barrel to move enough to cause a bullet to move out of the X ring.

I agree with you on that.You do need a fast lock time.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I have and agree with you but after the shot is off the rifle will move-no doubt.The object is to minimize the movement BEFORE the trigger breaks.What happens afterwords means nothing.

shootaway,


Once more, there is a lag time between when the sear breaks and the gun fires. It is during this time period that gun movement must be held to a minimum. The lag time is sufficient that during combat pistol competition, I have occasionally been able to move the front sight of my pistol from a C zone hit to an A zone hit during that lag.

465H&H

I agree with you again but you are referring to movement BEFORE the shot goes off.

For those few who haven't thought follow-through completely through (ironic isn't that?)....

It is true no one can control the flight of the bullet mentally or otherwise once it has left the effect of the muzzle blast after exiting the bore. It is also true that the golfer cannot affect the flight of his golf ball after it completely leaves the face of his club.

But good follow through can both help the golfer lower his score and the shooter to shoot more accurately.

Good, complete follow-through will help a golfer make certain his swing is consistent and correct until the ball leaves the face of his club. No thinking golfer would even try to control his swing only just until the exact instant the face of the club struck his ball.

Good follow-through will help the shooter maintain the exact same position and aim through the time he pulls the trigger, the hammer or striker falls, the powder ignites and burns, and the bullet travels down the bore and out of it, then escapes the influences of the high pressure powder blast which has been pushing it.

Sure that whole firing process is only milliseconds long. But if the shooter's position changes by even .001" during that time, it will move the POI of the bullet about 1.0" for every hundred yards of flight.

So follow-through helps the shooter to hold the same tightness of grip, (and his own body muscle tension) during that part of the bullet's trip...and reduces any significant body movement while the bullet IS in his control.

Lots of shooters who do not have good follow-through have trained themselves subconsciously to relax immediately upon firing the shot. Wanna see what that relaxation does? Just hold your rifle on the point of aim and then without even pulling the trigger, suddenly relax. How much did your crosshairs move when you relaxed?

Anyway, I'm not gonna pursue follow-through any farther. I can offer tips but I neither can nor wish to force anyone to do it.

As the old saying goes, "You can lead an Ass to water, but you can't make him think".

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The object is to minimize the movement BEFORE the trigger breaks.What happens afterwords means nothing.

What happens immediately afterwards mean a lot.
Which is what follow through addresses.
Because what happens after the bullet leaves the barrel is beyond our control.

AC gives an excellent analogy using a golfer's swing.

Good follow-through does nothing to affect POI once the projo has left the barrel. This completely misses the point. The effort that results in that good after-shot follow-through also results in better control during the interval between trigger release and bullet exit.

A lack of movement after a shot is a result, or consequence, of good control exercised through the shot.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Follow through bullshit....
but you will see that only people who cant shoot buy this crap-which means almost everybody.

I KNOW what crap is when I see it Shootaway and the above quote is more than a wheelbarrow full.

I suspect I might still be able to outshoot YOU.

In my best years I was a Life-Master in across the course full bore (large bore) shooting, on the Canadian Palma Team to NZ, won the CBA U.S. National 100 yard Score Championship, the U.S. 200 yard National Score Championship, the U.S. 100/200 yard Scores National Aggregate Championship, the U.S. National 100-yard 5-shot Groups Aggregate Championship, 100/200 yard 5-shot Groups U.S. Aggregate Championship, the 100 yard 10-shot Groups U.S. Aggregate Championship, and the U.S. CBA National Overall Grand-Championship.

A year later I set the CBA U.S. National Record for the 100 yard 10-shot Groups Aggregate which still stood as of about a week ago...don't know if it does today, but at least until last week it had not been bettered by anyone for 15 years, and still may not have been).

So, I'm calling you out, Shootaway. Come to Arizona and we'll shoot a shoulder-to-shoulder match against each other at Black Canyon (Ben Avery) range.

As another old saying goes, "either put up or shut up".

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If you shoot offhand with a scope you will be able to call your shot because you can see clearly where your sight was when you broke the trigger.

Shootaway, you poor man!

The bullet does not leave the barrel the moment the trigger is tripped. There is a lag due to lock time, ignition time and the time it takes the bullet to travel down the barrel. It is during this short time that follow through affects accuracy.

You can shorten this interval by shortening locktime(and for that matter, increasing the projectile's velocity) but it will ALWAYS be there. That is why follow through is important.

Have you ever thought that there may be something that you don't know?

Brown,you are a low life loser.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:


In my best years I was a Life-Master in across the course full bore (large bore) shooting, on the Canadian Palma Team to NZ, won the CBA U.S. National 100 yard Score Championship, the U.S. 200 yard National Score Championship, the U.S. 100/200 yard Scores National Aggregate Championship, the U.S. National 100-yard 5-shot Groups Aggregate Championship, 100/200 yard 5-shot Groups U.S. Aggregate Championship, the 100 yard 10-shot Groups U.S. Aggregate Championship, and the U.S. CBA National Overall Grand-Championship.

A year later I set the CBA U.S. National Record for the 100 yards 10-shot Groups Aggregate which still stood as of about a week ago...don't know if it does today, but at least until last week it had not been bettered by anyone for 15 years, and still may not have been).

.

Wasn't that with Brown Bess Muskets ?

I Hate to admit this, but it was primarily with a rifle with a Wichita 1.375 action and another with a Stolle Panda action...both barreled and set up by me, one in .30BR, the other in .30PPC.

I'm not sure I was old enough to lift a Brown Bess when they were in vogue (and probably neither was my father or grandfather).

But the point is well taken, Señor...I AM getting a bunch of miles on this old frame.

Have fun up there with all your BIG Ursa friends with the humongous claws and choppers.... And remember, Fall is ON us. Time to begin getting the winter's meat in.

Best wishes,

AC

I know better, because I know someone will miss construe the point I am attempting to make. Here goes anyway, and I am not taking sides on this.

Follow Thru, is one of those concepts that I have never really understood or bought into when it comes to shooting, be it rifle or shotgun.

I am not a world class shooter by any means, but when it comes to shooting at birds or game animals, I don't do real bad. Shotgun or rifle, I really only stay on target until it goes down then move to the next target, especially hunting birds. With big game, I acquire the sight picture, shoot, reload and go back on target ready for a back up shot if necessary.

To each his own and if a person believes in follow thru and feels it helps them, then by all means practice it. If a person does not see any advantages to Follow Thru and are successful with the method they use, then that should be good enough for everyone else.

If you stay on the target until it goes down, you have excellent follow-through....which helps you kill a lot of flying birds and moving game animals because it keeps you from shooting behind them by stopping your swing at the instant you pull the trigger would do. (You're shooting where they are going to be when the shot gets there, not where they were when your mind told your trigger finger "NOW!".)

Had not thought of it in that manner.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
If you stay on the target until it goes down, you have excellent follow-through....which helps you kill a lot of flying birds and moving game animals because it keeps you from shooting behind them by stopping your swing as you pull the trigger. (You're shooting where they are going to be when the shot gets there, not where they were when your mind told your trigger finger "NOW!".)

So I had a thought while reading this thread about the difference in shooting on different game.

As I recall, when I used to hunt deer down south I was only concerned with the first shot and followed thru quite calmly or carefully. Squeeze the trigger gently, the gun fires, the deer may run out of sight, but because you made a careful, calm firt shot it was deadly and the followup was short and un eventful.

Here on moose, sometimes I'm focused on unloading the rifle into the target and then thumbing singles 'til he's down. Possibly or probably a great degredation in my accuracy? I'm thinking so.

Scott, Probably not. Minute of X ring at 2, 3 or 600 yards is definitely not the same at minute of moose boiler room at a moderate distance.

For instance, the X ring of an NRA MR target is one MOA, or just a bit over 6 inches, and is shot at 600 yards; the offset to miss the X ring from an AR15 Service rifle is only .0056" ( a 20 inch sight radius).

If the target was a Moose at 600, I would expect that an otherwise centered shot, thrown off by a minute, would still be a lethal hit. I would also guess that most Moose are shot a quite a bit less than 600 yards.

I have found that the target field is a great preparation and skill training endeavor for the game or battle field.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Brown,you are a low life loser.

Is that the best you can do? I guess it is seeing that you can't refute anything I wrote.

You need help. There is a reason your father hated you and you have no life. My guess is that you have aspergers. There is help available.