Hi folks,

I think the title states most of my question. I'm thinking of getting a light, compact rifle for use in relatively heavy cover. Whitetails and mule deer at close range would be the primary use, with elk, moose and feral hogs a slim possiblity. I have other rifles for those, but....

I've never shot either, but like the history. Is there any meaningful difference between the two?

Dean

I like both rounds, I never had a 7 but will have one soon hopefully. You'll probuly have better luck finding a 7 in a compact rifle, unless someone is making compact in a 8mm. Unless have your own built. I shoot 200 grain accubonds, which is good for what I hunt, deer and elk mainly. Somebody else could tell you about the 7X57, I wouldn't mind knowing some more about the round also. I like the 2 rounds cause of the history also.

Well since you are hunting in cover and the 8x57 is easily a 250 yard capable cartridge, the choice to me is obvious get the 8x57.

With 200 grain bullets at 2600 fps in a modern rifle there is not a think you can't take.

Heck while not my first choice a 220 grain 8mm at 2400 fps would be a great bear load.

US rounds tend to be quite anemic. Possibly you Canadians will have a better selection. However I consider both a reloader's cartridge to wring out their potential.

Either will suite you nicely for your stated goals but it seems the 7MM bullets are more available and in wide circulation and variety.

Both are surprisingly powerful (properly handloaded) but the 7 X 57 will smack your shoulder somewhat more friendly.

I have taken deer with both.The 7 will shoot slightly flatter,the 8 will hit harder,but either work very well.After all,they are both over 100 years old and still going strong.

While both of them are good rounds, in todays world I would prefer the 308, or the 30/06.

Factory ammo, and reloading componets are easier to find.

Not much difference between the two.

But I would go with the 8x57JS loaded with a 12,7 gram or 196 grain bullet, if I were forced to make a choice.

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:
US rounds tend to be quite anemic. Possibly you Canadians will have a better selection. However I consider both a reloader's cartridge to wring out their potential.

Either will suite you nicely for your stated goals but it seems the 7MM bullets are more available and in wide circulation and variety.

Both are surprisingly powerful (properly handloaded) but the 7 X 57 will smack your shoulder somewhat more friendly.

I have two each sporterized with scope forward ( scout ) mounts. The two 7s have 19" barrels and home brewed muzzle brakes. They come up quick and are accurate and pleasant to shoot even on a bench.
The 8s are outfitted the same way with longer barrels and no muzzel brakes. These do kick somewhat harder. You could flip a coin and not loose.
If ,however, you are handy, getting a good 8mm Mod. 98 Mil.a self sporterizing is the way to go. roger

i would suppose the 8x57 would shine a bit brighter at moderate ranges on the bigger animals due to a little more bullet weight in general. that said, the 7x57( mine is actually 7x57AI) is my go-to for deer hands down and i wouldn't hesitate one bit to take it elk hunting. in fact, despite having a few of what most would consider a more "appropriate gun" for elk, my 7 would be my first choice because of the confidence i have in it. that confidence comes from a gun that shoots well, kills very reliably and is comfortable to shoot allot. that makes for well placed shots in not-so-perfect conditions. i'll take that over lots of power any day . besides, as said, with 175 gr. bullets and moderate distances the power is there also!

If you're just hunting deer, even mule deer (I've used a 243 on mule deer), I'd go with the 7mm. I have neither, but have extensively researched the 7x57. I do know that there were more 7mm bullets available when I checked. I would hypothesize that there is more factory loaded ammo for the 7mm too, but this is a guess. I plan on using a 6.5x55 on mule deer. Might consider a 6.5 with heavy for cal boolits. This may not be an option or desire, however.

I doubt you could really go wrong either way, but the 7mm is likely flatter and thus more versatile, though two inches at 200 yards probably doesn't make much difference. To be honest, my real reason for going with the 7mm is that that is my preference.

Or, you could go with a true brush gun in a 358 win or 35 Whelen.

28 vs. 32 caliber, sounds like a pretty big jump. In real world scenario, both will kill whatever very efficiently. As for choice, I'd bet one appeals more to you than other. Light, compact rifle? Don't know. Remington Classic? Husq Swede? Military sporter?

8X57 in this case. IMHO 180 TSX will take care of all your needs. There is also the 180 ballistic tip. For heavy stuff a little closer 200 gr Accubonds or partitions. Light loads down to 150 gr cup and core. I think with heavy game on the menu the 8X57 is the better choice.

I use the 8mm version, with 170 grain Speer SMPs or the 175 Sierra SP.. I also use it as what I consider a close range round...I also load it with fast powder...

the 150s don't have enough sectional density for my liking...and the heavier than the 170 to 180 grain, just don't have enough velocity to warrant them in my book...although I do wish Speer still made the old 225 grain SMP...

the 7 mm version, I load with everything from the 100 grainers to the 175 grainers...

for close cover and heavy game like bear or elk, the 154, 160 and 175 grainers, are great...

I prefer the RN's if possible.. each working well at high or low velocity... the 175 RN, that is a lot of sectional density and a heavy bullet.. even at low speeds, it will do some heavy duty digging thru a lot of thick stuff, giving more than enough penetration...

for flexibility, I'd lean toward the 7 mm version...

I shot my very first moose a little over 40 years ago with a 7x57 ZKK-601, just north of the Athabasca River and just west of Ft. Assinaboine (Sp?...been gone from home so long I can't even remember how to spell things). I used 139 gr. Hornady cup and core bullets and both shots went all the way through the chest cavity, out the other side, and may still be going so far as I know.


Still, if you are planning on hunting the area down below Calgary and west of Okotoks or Nanton, or a bit farther south; or up north of Calgary and west of Rocky Mountain House, I'd go for the 8 x57, with 200 gr. Nosler Partition handloads. Ever so often you run onto a grizz that wandered out of the Park(s), or lives regularly in that area between the Edmonton Trail and the mountains. Then it is always nice to have that bit more punch.

As to a nice little gun in that chambering, I have a Steyr "Professional" in 8x57, and can thoroughly recommend it. It is very accurate, quite light, handles recoil very well, and after you manipulate the bolt dry a couple of hundred times, is very slick and smooth to operate while still at the shoulder. Plus, with a spare mag you can easily and quickly reload it...even change bullet weights if you really want to.

I put a Leupold non-variable 4-X on mine and would not change it unless I did expect to be taking shots of 50 yards or less. If that was the case, I'd use a 1.5-X to somewhere around 4.5-X variable. And, I'd carry it on 1.5-X.

If you need more magnification than 1.5-X, you'll likely have time to crank up the magnification, but if you really NEED to crank it down, you likely will be too close to have that time.

Good luck

I have liked the 7x57 for as long as I have been old enough to think about hunting, and have owned at least one all the time, although for years I didn't hunt with one. I have a new CZ 550 in 7x57 that will soon be back from the gunsmith's tweaking, so I'm sure I'll be using the 7x57 some again next season.

But for at least two years I have wanted a 8x57, and finally got one lately. It seems to me to be the perfectly balanced hunting cartridge. For woods hunting deer, those anemic Rem/Win/Fed factory 170 gr loads are plenty. It can be handloaded to provide a very potent round, plenty adequate for elk, moose, black bear.

I'm glad I have both, but if I could only have one, I think it would be the 8x57. I can't think of any hunting that I want to do in the future that I couldn't do confidently with it, except brown bear, but I don't have such a hunt in mind. If that happens, I've got a 9.3x62 for that. I hope to be shooting my 8x57 a lot. It's great fun and mild recoil.

KB

My only experience is with the 7x57 on deer.I love it and would not hesitate to use it on any non dangerous game with the proper bullet.

I have both. I havent used the 7x57 as much as the 8x57 but I like them both.
Actully I have 2 7x57's but the only thing I ever shot with a 7x57 was a fallow deer. I guess I need to get some use out of these.

I have used a 7x64 a lot and have had good success with that.

I have more than one 8x57 also. I have used them quite a bit. and I've never felt like I needed anything else when I was hunting with them.

Here in North America it will be a little harder to get a 8x57 there are plenty of used European rifles out there and I guess you could get a CZ chambered for 8x57 but the only thing that comes to mind domesticly built in 8x57 is the Remington. Ruger has chambered both the M77 and #1 in 7x57 and the #1A is a sweet little rifle.

The easy, fast way into a trim light 8x57 is to find a nice clean small ring Husqvarna. Most are already drilled and tapped. Bob the barrel, add a pad and you're good to go.

Unfortunately, I've never seen a 7x57 in that series rifle.

If recoil is a factor go with the 7. If not go with the 8.

Don't have a 7x57 but have experience with 6.5x55 and 8x57. As the other posters said, recoil would be stouter on the 8mm.

My wife uses an 8x57 and I have a 7x57, I doubt that you'd see a bit of difference in effect between the two with good handloads or Euro type factory loads at similar ranges. The American style 8x57 loads are a bit 30-30ish.

Just find a rifle you like and have at it.

Forgot to add, if you need brass for the 8mm you could always make em out 30-06 cases. Just need to do a bit of trimming.

any real difference is mostly opinion ... both are excellent, neither a bad coice

in all honesty, i have to say jeffeosso sums it all up well.
either will do you you want, very well. lots of favoritism comes into play when these two rounds are brought up. as old as they both are, it's foolish to think either hasn't been used and prooven thier worth on all sizes of game, all over the world.....

I think the key to the question is "in heavy cover". Go with the 8mm as it can throw a heavier ball. Which would be an edge in brush and if the sight picture was less than perfect.

I don't have any experience with the 8x57 (yet ) but I see no reason why it would not be a decent cartridge for the hunting style mentioned.
Still, my choice would be the 7x57. I have three of them and two are sub-MOA and the ruger #1 is a 1.25" gun at best. Still more than good enough and I can probably get it to shoot smaller groups if I were not being lazy about working up a load for the gun.
The Winchester M70 Featherweight (push feed) is damnably accurate with everything I've run though it so far with the exception of the 150 gr. Winchester P{oer Point bullets which do not shoot worth a damn in any of the 7x57s nor my .280 Rem. and .7MM Rem. Mag. Not the guns, just lousy bullets.
The custom 7x57 based on a J.C. Higgins M50 FN Mauser will shoot the winchester 145 gr. Power point factory load into anywhere from .50" to .80" depending on how well I'mm shooting on any particular day.
The Winchester M70 with which I've done the most load work will place three 170 gr. Sierra round nose bullets into a perfect clover leaf almost every time I shoot that load. I'm very sad to say that Sierra no longer makes that bullet and has no plans for even a limited run. The Hornady 175 gr. round nose interlock shoots right at 1.0" on a steady basis.
As I grow older, stuff like heavy recoil gets to be more of a problem with a shoulder that is growing more arthritic as time goes on. That mild kicking 7x57, even with my stiff handloads is a lot more pleasant to use, either on a hunt or of the bench than most of my other rifles.
I'll be trying out the 140 gr. Barnes TSX bullets in the very near future as I think they should work just fine on a black bear hunt I have in the works.
However, I'll always keep my Oberndorf Mauser in .35 Whelen. I'd like to have that one buried with me.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
Hi folks,

I think the title states most of my question. I'm thinking of getting a light, compact rifle for use in relatively heavy cover. Whitetails and mule deer at close range would be the primary use, with elk, moose and feral hogs a slim possiblity. I have other rifles for those, but....

I've never shot either, but like the history. Is there any meaningful difference between the two?

Dean

IF you favor the larger bore, the 8X57 can be loaded to some awesome levels. But so can the 7X57. For hogs, I'd prefer the 8mm using a 200-grain Partition or Accubond. For all the rest, the 7mm is adequate using 175-grain Partition bullets.

quote:

Go with the 8mm as it can throw a heavier ball. Which would be an edge in brush and if the sight picture was less than perfect.

The 8mm will not perform better in brush. There is no such thing as a "brush-bucking bullet".

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
Hi folks,
Is there any meaningful difference between the two?
Dean

Not a lot, no, I'd just rather have the 7x57. Rifles and ammunition are easier to come by in the 7mm
Mine is the 7x57R version, loaded with a 154 or 175 grain Hornady RN bullet will in close cover despatch any deer.
For longer range shooting a 140 grain Nosler partition gets the job done, and would probably do so in the bush, I just haven't used it there.

nice thread roger

Let me throw in a little bit different thought here.

First off, either rifle is powerful enough with the bullet put in even approximately the right spot. My own inclination is to use a bit heavier bullet for a chance encounter with Grizz IF I have a choice at the time; for Blackie I still think either will do just fine. (Would for Griz, too, I just like the little heavier bullet of the 8 m/m when something is priming me for ITS B-B-Q.)

Second, if this truly is a hunting rifle intended primarily for 100 yards or under, whether the rifle will group 3/4 MOA or 1.5 MOA is entirely irrelevant to me, and in real life probably will prove to be so too for anyone else. I know 3.0 MOA is entirely adequate for most Inuit up in the Territories, and for the ones still in the traditional life style, their hunting success is much more important to their lives than it is likely to ever be to you and I.

Either will do just fine; so will even 2.0 or 2.5 MOA for us more technically advantaged (technically dependent?) folk when we are hunting.

What DOES matter greatly, I think, is that you not pass by a rifle you really like the feel, looks, and handling of, just to get a bit more power or more accuracy.

I have hunted the area(s) you intend to be the nimrod of, quite a bit. The bush there can be thicker than the points on a porcupine's back, You can also get the odd shot across a valley, down a seismic line, or over a muskeg where you think you can see forever, too.

But generally, ALL my shots there have been short (well under 200 yards [longest one a 180-yard moose standing in a Nodwell trail] - most were less than 90 yards, some as close as 15 yards [another moose]) as I like to take targets of opportunity while I am "injun-ing" through the bush. The hunting you are describing sounds kinda like my style so far.

What really IS important, is how the gun comes to the hand (or the shoulder, or the cheek) and whether you can operate it instinctively to good advantage. If you like a particular rifle a lot, you will be more apt to carry it a lot, shoot it a lot, get to know it and its ammunition well. In other words you and it will more likely come to rely on and suit one another.

If you come across such a rifle in either 7m/m or 8m/m, buy it! It will not let you down regardless which chambering it is in, and regardless whether it is even 7x65-R or 8x60.

Good luck.

"there's no such thing as a bush bucking bullet" Numerous gun hacks have made that claim; however, generations of hands on hunters disagree. The fact that you are throwing a bigger ball has got to count for something.
To take it to an extreme: shoot a 50gr .22 spitzer bullet at a screen of brush at @4000fps and see what happens. Then shoot a 220gr 30-06 RN bullet at the same screen of brush.
'course the density of the brush and its distance in front of the animal plays a large part in whether the shot is doable or not.

quote:

The Winchester M70 Featherweight (push feed) is damnably accurate with everything

I have one of those also, and love it...

it shoots about everything I handload like it thinks it is a varmint rifle...

The difference is 1mm.

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
Hi folks,

I think the title states most of my question. I'm thinking of getting a light, compact rifle for use in relatively heavy cover. Whitetails and mule deer at close range would be the primary use, with elk, moose and feral hogs a slim possiblity. I have other rifles for those, but....

I've never shot either, but like the history. Is there any meaningful difference between the two?

Dean

Dean (maki),

My preference for the situation you describe above would be the 8x57 Mauser. Now, I do reload for an 8x57 but you can use the European factory ammo that's loaded to the more modern pressures and get the same performance.

I like the choices you have come up with - Think they are kinda unusual in today's times! Getting a good new rifle in one of those calibers may not be easy. Found mine in a pawn shop - It was an old sporterized Vz-24 Mauser. It looked like a POS when I bought it - I had to put a lot of $$$.$$ and fixing up into it.




So, how did you come about the 7x57 and 8x57 decision?

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by maki:
Hi folks,

?

Wow! looks like one of mine.Nice touch. Eat your heart out Glenn, who ever that is. roger

I've never shot a 8X57 but have found the 7X57 to be the finest whitetail round ever made, IMHO. 1 milimeter won't make any difference either way. I would go with the 7x57 because ammo should be easier to find. If big brother rings your chimes, however, go for it. I don't think that you can make a bad choice. If you are in Bear country, I'd load 175 grs in the 7x57.

Actually, I have them both and even when I hunted where the great bears were, I couldn't decide which one I liked best.

The 8x57 Mauser is better suited to your needs.

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
I've never shot a 8X57 but have found the 7X57 to be the finest whitetail round ever made, IMHO. 1 milimeter won't make any difference either way. I would go with the 7x57 because ammo should be easier to find. If big brother rings your chimes, however, go for it. I don't think that you can make a bad choice. If you are in Bear country, I'd load 175 grs in the 7x57.

Amen Brother!
Was just out shooting a 7x57 yesterday, only with 100 grain Sierra bullets as they flat fly right for varmints. That bullet and the fine Speer 110 grainer are about equal for accuracy, 1/2" for 3 shots at 100 yards.
I think that H-414 was specifically formulated for the 7x57, and now for the 7-08, a new 7mm addition to my arsenal.

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, my computer is dying on me, so I haven't been able to take part in the converstation. I got thinkig about a new light rifle because my wife has a M70 Featherlite in .257 Roberts. I love the rifle, but she won't let me play with it often(fair enough, she bought it and it's the rifle she likes to use). So the hunt is on for something with similar dimensions and handling properties. In the end, I think I'll end up with a 7x57. Mostly I guess because the 8x57 is real close to my .338-06 at the ranges I'm thinking of using this rifle at. But, like one of the posters above said, fit and handling will be more important than the cartridge the rifle is chambered in.

Thanks,
Dean