Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am curious as to your experience both positive and negative when using 6.5 caliber cartridges on game larger than deer, such as elk, moose and bear. Also, I would like to know what cartridges, bullets and velocities produced the best results for you on this larger size game.

I used to have a 6.5-06, but did not have it long enough to kill anything with it.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am curious as to your experience both positive and negative when using 6.5 caliber cartridges on game larger than deer, such as elk, moose and bear. Also, I would like to know what cartridges, bullets and velocities produced the best results for you on this larger size game.

I used to have a 6.5-06, but did not have it long enough to kill anything with it.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Several friends in Sweden tell me that the 6.5x55mm is by far the best selling cartridge for hunting moose over there. They seem to place a higher premium on shot placement than we do over here. A 6.5-06 should do just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am curious as to your experience both positive and negative when using 6.5 caliber cartridges on game larger than deer, such as elk, moose and bear. Also, I would like to know what cartridges, bullets and velocities produced the best results for you on this larger size game.

I used to have a 6.5-06, but did not have it long enough to kill anything with it.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Several friends in Sweden tell me that the 6.5x55mm is by far the best selling cartridge for hunting moose over there. They seem to place a higher premium on shot placement than we do over here. A 6.5-06 should do just fine.

I once built a 6.5 Gibbs, which produced a performance level almost equal to the .264 Win. Mag. However, I never shot anything larger than deer with it. But I've owned two rifles chambered for the 6.5X55mm. One was a Swedish Mauser, the other a Norwegian Krag. The Swede was OK, but that Krag (Kongsberg 1915) was a fabulous rifle. I like the round, and use 140-grain bullets in it for deer and 160-grain RN for anything larger. I don't believe the Scandinavians place a greater premium on accuracy and bullet plaement than we do, BUT I admire them for making all would-be hunters pass a shooting test with the guns they will be using on a hunt. Unfortunately, since hunting in the USA is considered a RIGHT, we could not impose such a requirement here.

I think of 6,5x57 or the Sizzler 6,5x68 as long-range cartridges for: sheep, goats, or deer. I would choose bigger slug for the game animals you have listed.

I personally wouldn't hunt the game you propose with the 6.5, I would say minimum .277 cal

In Norway and Sweden the 6,5x55 Swede has taken thousands of tons of moose trough the years.
A much used and much debated caliber...yes, but with good bullets and proper placement it simply works.

Today it´s a declining star regarding moose hunting (30-06 / 308 Win, 9,3x62 and various medium magnums are more popular), but it still shine as a popular caliber for red deer and roe.

Seriously, the difference between .277 and 6,5 mm being?

Big game, big bore, or it´s indifferent if it´s a 160 grain 6,5 mm bullet or a .277 160 bullet.

The 6,5x55 was designed to shoot a 160-170 grain bullet with High SD, the 270 win a 140-150 grain bullet with a lot less SD.

So the conclusion being?

/Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Beefa:
I personally wouldn't hunt the game you propose with the 6.5, I would say minimum .277 cal

quote:

Originally posted by Yale:
Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am curious as to your experience both positive and negative when using 6.5 caliber cartridges on game larger than deer, such as elk, moose and bear. Also, I would like to know what cartridges, bullets and velocities produced the best results for you on this larger size game.

I used to have a 6.5-06, but did not have it long enough to kill anything with it.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I have taken one Black Bear with my .260 rem using 125 partitions. Shot through the shoulders at about 100 yards bear died within 10 feet. I have no worries that the .260 rem with a 140 nosler partition will take moose or elk at moderate range with proper shot placement.

quote:

Originally posted by Husqvarna M98:
Seriously, the difference between .277 and 6,5 mm being?

Big game, big bore, or it´s indifferent if it´s a 160 grain 6,5 mm bullet or a .277 160 bullet.

The 6,5x55 was designed to shoot a 160-170 grain bullet with High SD, the 270 win a 140-150 grain bullet with a lot less SD.

So the conclusion being?

/Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Beefa:
I personally wouldn't hunt the game you propose with the 6.5, I would say minimum .277 cal

+1 I have mixed experiences with standard 150gn bullets on moose in .270 win

As mentioned before, the 6,5x55 IS by far the caliber that has killed most moose here in Sweden. Not stating that it`s the best, but its the fact.

Factually the 6.5 with higher sd is better if all else is equal.That being said. If the game you are hunting can eat you, I don't think you can have too large of caliber!

I have been present when both moose and black bear were harvested with a 6.5 x 55. Personally, I prefer a bit more frontal area. However, the calibre works if the shooter places the shot in the right place.

Although I am a huge fan of the 6.5X55, it would not be my first choice for bear, elk and moose; however if I had no choice I would use a good 140-160 grain bullet and keep shots to 200 yds or less. Lou

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Thank you for all of your replies.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I've take a couple of elk with a .264 Winchester and 140 Nosler Partitions. That was quite a few years ago, but the last time I checked they were still dead. A 6.5-06 like you once owned will come within 100 fps of the .264 and makes a serviceable round for elk with the Noslers or other appopriate bullet.

Black bears are (on average) much smaller than elk and not all that hard to kill. A 6.5 is as good as any caliber for them.

I've never had the opportunity to hunt moose, but most people say that they're actually a "softer" target than elk.

I've seen a pile of elk killed with a 270 here in Washington and in Oregon. A 6.5x55 with a good 140 will do the job just fine, and not at point blank either. In fact, I think most guys would be better off hunting elk with a 6.5 than the 300 and 338 mags that they can't hit their ARSE with. There is a pile of guys that category.

TMc

/

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
.... There was good blood and we followed him into a swamp where we completely lost sign.
.....

Any chance or it having gone under in the swamp?

I don't think that the North American moose and the Norway moose are the same animal re: size/weight.

The Eskimos would apparently shoot anything with surplus .303 rifles. Who knows how many bears won the contest?--or failed to drop.

The Canadian Indians would shoot Moose with a Savage Model 99 in 300 Savage years ago with no problem.

Don

Do they use dogs to hunt moose in Sweden? I seem to remember that this was a popular method in Finland but don't know if it is apopular elsewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Burlington Rd:
I don't think that the North American moose and the Norway moose are the same animal re: size/weight.

The Eskimos would apparently shoot anything with surplus .303 rifles. Who knows how many bears won the contest?--or failed to drop.

I may be wrong, but something tells me that people who live off the land 24/7 know their limitations, saw an article years ago in varmint hunting.....eskimos I believe used a 22 Hornet for some BIG stuff....successfully.

SHOT placement I think was what fed the eskimos...and saved their hides.....sure there were SOME who lost theirs, but hey, ever read the account of a VERY large Griz an Indian woman shot with a single shot 22 rifle? She had that one long rifle bullet in chamber.....believe she shot it point blank in head......and lived to tell about it.....dead bear....

Different cartridge and bullet combo's may vary in how quickly they drop game or not, but outcomes in field are HEAVILY skewed in favor of good shot placement IMHO, but yes I do recall hearing eskimos using surplus mil-spec rifles often 303....and I can only imagine how deep those bullets penetrate esp. fmj, and if placed well......they fed their families.

/

Like anything else, its a good caliber if you use it properly, but you are putting yourself in a position wherein you have no room for error. I hunt deer with a 6x45 and I have to be extremely careful about shot placement, range, and must hunt in open areas as it leaves no blood trail most of the time, and that puts me at a disadvantage if I see a big buck at 300 yards, I have to wave good bye or try and get closer...

Best route for "constant success" is to always be a little over gunned I suppose, or you must be of a mind set to live with the disadvantages of using light calibers..I can do both and it doesn't bother me anymore probably because I have hunted too much, and passing on a trophy anything is pretty easy for me..

Again the right tool for the job at hand is always the better route.

I am having a 264WM put together for a pronghorn antelope and sheep rifle...for the game you asked about I would use my 300WM or more likely my 338WM or even
375RM....certainly not my goat rifle....

European moose is a lot smallen than what you have in NA! I´d definetly use something bigger on your critters.

Personally I see the 6.5 as a deer round, the 9.3x62 is great for bigger European stuff.

I simply had to respond to this one.
True enough, in Sweden more elk has been shot w/ the 6,5x55 ("Swedish Mauser") than with anything else. It seems to be gaining some ground in Finland now, too.

I do consider it to be unnecessarily light, though. Yes, it kills the elk very dead, indeed, but it's such a big animal that I'd opt for something larger.
My recommendation for elk is larger than .30 - or if .30 is used, heavy bullets. And in this context 180grs is not heavy!

The Swedes use due to local legislation heavy bullets which of course are best suited for this large game. 156grs is the order of the day.
That gives a good SD and low velocity which mean little meat lost.
Also the recoil is low and the accuracy good so 1st shot kills are easy.

For anything even remotely dangerous I wouldn't use the 6,5 even if legal.
For pigs, I use the 8,2x53R or even better the 9,3x62. For bear, these would also be my choice even though where I hunt (and in Sweden, for that matter), the 6,5 would be legal.

- Larry

Yes, the "moose", or "elk" as they call it in Scandinavian countries, is a large, heavy animal with a apparently shockproof consitution. But they are NOT hard to kill, they just rarely drop on the spot when shot, REGARDLESS of what they are shot with. One of these critters is as apt to walk away from where shot, about the same distance with a .375 H&H hole in his anatomy as with a .264" bullet. After you shoot your moose, the best approach is to sit down and smoke your pipe,or whatever, for a good half-hour to 45 minutes before going after him, IF you are certain of your bullet placement.

I know some people whose "policy" is to keep shooting until the critter drops. I do not recommend this approach! Moose meat is about the best there is, and I like to eat more than I can scrape off an expended bullet.

quote:

The Swedes use due to local legislation heavy bullets which of course are best suited for this large game. 156grs is the order of the day.
That gives a good SD and low velocity which mean little meat lost.
Also the recoil is low and the accuracy good so 1st shot kills are easy.

Schauckis,

A very nice and concise description of what actually happens out there with lead-core bullets.

Low recoil - pleasure to shoot
Good accuracy as there is no flinching
Little meat damage - no shattering of the bullet

Premium-grade bullets that do not shatter or fragment make it even better.

Heavy for caliber bullets at medium velocity invariable perform better than lighter ones at high velocities. 3 European calibers can be mentioned in this regard with similar velocities and high SD's - they just get progressively more powerful as we go up, and important to note is that the size of the hole gets bigger as we go up in caliber, and the expansion of caliber to at leat 2 times when it enters the target:

6,5x55 mm - using a 156 gr bullet (expanded size = 13 mm's plus)
7x57 mm - using a 175 gr bullet (expanded size = 14 mm's plus)
9,3x62 mm - using a 286 gr bullet (expanded size = 18,6 mm's plus)

That is why these calibers impress hunters far beyond their paper ballistics when they are looking at energy tables. For example; the .366/286 gr Rhino Solid Shank bullet opens up to 21.5 mm's and punches a decent hole into an animal and puts them down like lightning.

Warrior

Chris, When you finally book your bear hunt with me why don't you bring your 6.5 with some TSX bullets and find out for yourself?
I'm betting it will work just fine.

Hey Warrior
Talking rubbish as usual I see.

quote:

Heavy for caliber bullets at medium velocity invariable perform better than lighter ones at high velocities.
That is why these calibers impress hunters far beyond their paper ballistics when they are looking at energy tables. For example; the .366/286 gr Rhino Solid Shank bullet opens up to 21.5 mm's and punches a decent hole into an animal and puts them down like lightning.

Lighter monos will do everything a heavier leadcore will do and do it over a bigger variety of speeds and distances. Check out the performance of light 6.5mm copper bullets and light 7x57 copper bullets and light turned copper 9.3 bullets.

Where do you get these very very strange ideas from anyway?


458win
That is good advice but I cannot see Warrior taking it he has too much experience to take advice from anyone.

Dear Mr. Shoemaker:

All it takes is money to go hunting, and two weeks from Thursday should put me in a better position to start to realize one of my dreams, and that is hunting with you in Alaska. I'll contact you later this month.

I asked this question about the effective use of the 6.5 caliber cartridges and bullets on the larger game, since so many large animals were killed efficiently by sub-30 caliber guns. In one of P. O. Ackley's books, he states that many considered the 256 Newton (6.5mm) to be a better cartridge than the 257 Roberts or the 270 Winchester. That opinion interested me enough to get some opinions from the forum members.

Actually, I just finished stoning a military trigger for a 1940 K98k that will become a 35 Whelen Ackley in a few months, and as per our prior discussions that is what I will bring with me for brown bear fitted in a Rimrock stock. I was going to build a 9.3x62, but that stupid different caliber law in RSA is making me build two different medium bores instead of one. One with a scope, the 35 Whelen AI, and one with a Lyman 48 peep, the 9.3x62.

As far as moose and grizzly, who knows what I will build.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Yale-My Norwegian relatives swear by the 6.5X55 for their elk (moose) hunting. The shots are generally close range, & I believe dogs are used. If so, this would certainly lessen the chance of a wounded moose charging the shooter.

I have successfully hunted both deer & elk with the Swede & the .264 Win. Mag. My best 6.5X55 loads use the 125 Partition or 129 Interlock at 2900 fps. My .264 load uses the 140 Partition at 3200 fps. These loads are noticably hotter than the rather anemic factory offerings, but are not max.

Personally, I am comfortable using even the 6.5X55 in any situation appropriate for a .270. For me, that means elk-yes, moose-yes, large bears-no.

Phil,
Now you done gone and dunnet!

458Win,

I am using the Barnes-X and TSX myself - I like the .366/250 gr bullet as it gives sterling performance. In fact many African Buffalo have been shot with this combo. The Barnes bullets work well for me and I load the 250 gr bullet to 2,400 fps, as there is no compelling reason for me to have it any higher.

My response was more in terms of lead-core bullets as the majority of people are still using lead-core bullets. Monolithic bullets are a different kettle of fish, as their threshold strength is higher and one can thus go lighter and faster. The key point in my post was really that one should recognise the difference in expanded diameter - if you compare a TSX bullet with a 13 mm vs 18.6 mm mushroom then there is something in favour of the bigger bullet. That does not mean we cannot kill with the smaller bullet or even a non-expanding solid of only 6.5 mm.

In SA the 6.5x55 caliber is few and far in between - here the 7x57mm is more popular due to historic reasons.

Warrior

The famous Warrior tap dance starts.

Well my brother had a 264 Win mag for around 20 yrs, with it he killed a whack of Blackies, Deer, and Moose. Mostly used the 140 gr factory load and it worked just fine. He was a pretty good shot tho and kept it mostly to broadside chest or neck shots.
I used it to kill several more deer as well.

A buddy of mine has hunted all over Alaska and the west for over 40 years with nothing but a .264. The gun has taken everything from deer to elk to moose to grizzlies.

I was a hard sell and a big believer in my .338 (which I still use as well as other guns/calibers). But I finally broke down and bought one.

At first I just used it on pronghorn and deer. It worked great, so I tried it on bigger game. I have now taken: red deer, thar, chamois, fallow deer, feral pigs, sheep and goats, mule deer, caribou, black bear, pronghorn, elk, impala, warthog, wildebeest, gemsbok, kudu, and hartebeest. I have not lost an animal with it and have had a spectacular number of one shot kills.

This year I will take it Dall sheep hunting and mountain goat hunting. I have not yet used it on moose, but would not hesitate to do so with 140 grain Barnes bullets. A quality bullet well placed will do the job.

Again, thank you all for your cogent and intelligent responses. I will just have to take Mr. Shoemaker's advice; build a 6.5 (probably a 6.5x57 or 256 Newton), and see how it works.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

quote:

Originally posted by AK Hunter:
A buddy of mine has hunted all over Alaska and the west for over 40 years with nothing but a .264. The gun has taken everything from deer to elk to moose to grizzlies.

I was a hard sell and a big believer in my .338 (which I still use as well as other guns/calibers). But I finally broke down and bought one.

At first I just used it on pronghorn and deer. It worked great, so I tried it on bigger game. I have now taken: red deer, thar, chamois, fallow deer, feral pigs, sheep and goats, mule deer, caribou, black bear, pronghorn, elk, impala, warthog, wildebeest, gemsbok, kudu, and hartebeest. I have not lost an animal with it and have had a spectacular number of one shot kills.

This year I will take it Dall sheep hunting and mountain goat hunting. I have not yet used it on moose, but would not hesitate to do so with 140 grain Barnes bullets. A quality bullet well placed will do the job.

That mirrors my experience with it too....hi % of bang flops!