Ok I like hornady bullets. They get the job done, but his yr I shot a medium 160lb wt with a 30-06 using hornady's 30 cal bullet; the plain jane #3070 backed by 54grs IMR 4350. One of my shots hit the deer in the rear breaking ( shattering) the femur and lodging under the skin just above the tenderloin. Range was just 60 yards or so. Mushroom was classic and I believe retained wt is 115grs.

Now for the questions, 1.)Should I be worried about penetration!? I mean if this had been a big deer or a moose and I had placed the shot in the same place, I think I would have trailed this game for many yards.

Would a partition type bullet have exited? Would it have reached the vitals? I mean this round is cruising... I would like to think that I could shoot a moose in the rear with a 30-06 180 bullet and get to reach the vitals at close range especially.

Also, I have been surprised that 30-06 federal amunition 165grs does not pass through a bear sides at 50 yards and retains 115grs? Is this ammo designed to do this?

So if I what penetration core-lock or partition? I would have though an ordinary bullet would have passed trough or reached the vitals of a 160 lb deer???? expecially that it was handloaded to near max!?

My dad would shot bugging out deer with a 32 remington with WW silver tips and the bullets would reach the vitals? What gives?

By the way on a side shot this bullet and powder combination in my 30-06 passes through a deer making a two inch hole on exit! hitting ribs incomeing and outgoing!

just one man's opinion here.....deer are not difficult to kill.....the 180 Hornady is about as good as it gets for deer but if I'm hunting elk or something bigger, I'm looking for a better bullet.....I loaded a bunch of 180 Northforks for my 30-06 just for bigger game....The Hornday will do it too...but I'll pay for the margin of difference.

Never shot a moose.
but a 30,06 in the rear on animal that big ?
I think you better pass on that shot with any bullet.
An 06 will surly kill a moose but you better place your bullet well !
An I would use a Barnes or a north fork or a partition, for sure.
Personaly If I were going after moose, I wan,t a .338 or better.
man thats a big freaking critter, not in the rear with an 06.No way. !
Don't claim to be an expert but I just think thats a bad shot.
if your gonna shoot a moose mabye you should get your self a 45/70, Now your talking...tj3006

I dont think killing moose with 180gr hornady bullets in 3006 is a problem. Just keep the velosity low under 830m/s. My current moose/deer/roe/bear load is 165gr hornady sp in about 820m/s two of them passed trew a 170kg cow moose(carcass weight),one stayed under the skin after passing trew the bow on a 150kg bull. about 60% weight retention.
But 180 in my 308w or 200-220gr in 3006would be better.

Kimmo

I shot a deer with those Hornady 180gr bullets.
I used my 300 Win Mag and ruined a shoulder. It was a 200yd shot but to much FPS.
The bullet did good tho.

I use Hornady bullets a lot and have always had good luck with them as long as the shot is well placed. About 10yrs ago I shot bull kudu in the ass with a 30-06, and a 180gr Hornady Interlock, as it was running away. We recovered what was left of the kudu two days later and a couple miles from where it had been shot. I should have waited for it to stop and turn around, or not taken the shot at all. A kudu is probably half the size of a moose. Would a Nosler Partition, Northfork, or 220gr Barnes solid penetrated more? Probably, but it's still a poor shot to take, especially on a large animal.

Shot placement is the most important factor in terminal performace of a bullet.

I've shot many deer over the last 10 years using Hornady 180 g interlocks.

I call what happens to deer when I hit them with this pill "A PANCAKE". They just go right down.

The longest a deer went was @ 40 yds and that was a big Canadian brute of @ 375lbs. I called him the snow plow because thats exactly what he looked like when I double lunged him and he tried to run.

My 30-06 will push the 180 @ 2625 fps according to my Chrony.

All my bullets exit the animal.

I hear that's not actually good because you want what they call "hydroshock" to occur. This is when all the bullet's energy remains inside the animal and has like a ripple effect of the bullets energy which causes like a heart attack.

I don't care what they say the Hornady 180 interlock has never made me track a deer since I've started reloading.

Just my opinion and my experience with this particular bullet. This bullet is all I use for deer and I wouldn't hesitate to use it on larger animals.

By the way it shoots less than an inch @ 100 yds from the bench.

From what I hear from a few of my buddies the partition is an awesome bullet, but I happen to think the interlock does just fine for me.

My buddies and I have shot deer elk and antelope through a 300 win mag and a 308 Norma mag. No problems at all! Including a 950 lbs 7x7 bull at 406 and point blank range.

I´ve shot quite a few deer with Hornaday bullets but not in .30 cal. My feeling is that they are good at moderate speeds but that they tend to mushroom quickly at top speeds ie giving less penetration.

You might think I'm crazy but sometimes the ability of the animal to "cave in" or move with the bullet as it hits seems to make the bullet not penetrate. Thus a small deer hit on shoulder or ham bone might actually have more of a catching affect than a bigger more rigid situation. I guess if I could.....maybe compare it to the snaring mechanism on an aircraft carrier. It give's, stretches and slows the plane down to a stop. I wonder how long everything would last if there was no give or stretch....would the plane go right through it?? (However I'm not totally sure what the snare is made of).

Anyhow....I've seen personally and heard of some pretty smallish deer stopping bullets on bone and I can't think of any other reason why that would be.

quote:

Originally posted by PETEM:

All my bullets exit the animal.

I hear that's not actually good because you want what they call "hydroshock" to occur. This is when all the bullet's energy remains inside the animal and has like a ripple effect of the bullets energy which causes like a heart attack.

I don't put much credence in that theory

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/myths.html

jro45 wrote

quote:

I shot a deer with those Hornady 180gr bullets.
I used my 300 Win Mag and ruined a shoulder. It was a 200yd shot but to much FPS.
The bullet did good tho.

I shot an Elk with a 180 gr TSX last year right through the shoulders and he was DRT. The point is with that bullet you can literally "eat right up to the hole"

going in



going out

woods,
I didn't eat that shoulder because it was all Blood Shot I mean the whole thing. But scence this ocurance I was told that you can soak blood shot meat in salt water and that will take all the blood out.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PETEM:

All my bullets exit the animal.

I hear that's not actually good because you want what they call "hydroshock" to occur. This is when all the bullet's energy remains inside the animal and has like a ripple effect of the bullets energy which causes like a heart attack.

I don't put much credence in that theory

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/myths.html

I don't say I agree with the hydroshock theory, I just say it's of some peoples opinion. I read some of the link and it's pretty interesting.

All my Hornady interlocks exit the deer I've taken, so the hydroshock theory in my case is a mute point.

The better point is the interlock at moderate speeds performs great in my firearm.

We loaded the same bullet in my brother's 300 win mag and the bullet blows up on impact at short ranges because of the high muzzle velocity. The game was recovered in about 200 yds but not the same performance as the 30-06. The meat all around the impact site was destroyed.

We moved my brother up to partitions for the 300. NO problems.

Sometimes it's trial and error.

I used the Inter-lock BT in both the 30-06 and 300 Win, and have gotten great results.


Shot game from Deer to Kudu, and seldom do they go more than a few steps.

i agree with Vapodog, he sure sumed it up right,add barnes 180 tripple shock to the list,hornady makes a great bullet but the tougher the game you need a tougher bullet, angle shots are hard on normal bullets,thats why they don''t penatrate as deep as a preium bullet,yes in some cases they can but thats not always the case,heck thats half the fun to try all different makes of bullets, i personaly would not rate remingtons core-loc any where near the Nosler Partition, hunts are costing more and more,i''ll shoot a Premium thank you!!!!!regards jjmp

A 30-06 shooting 180 grainers is a classic and effective outfit for deer. I too like Hornady's (and Rem corelokt, and Speer), as they all "just work." I also prefer more mass than less in a hunting bullet (ie 180 in favor of 150 grains in 30 cal, and 200 grain in favor of 180).

But, if you want more penetration upside potential from the 180 Hornady (sectional density of ~0.27), then you need to increase bullet weight to 200 grains (Speer), with SD of ~0.30. I think this is an overlooked bullet. Trajectory is fine for 300 yard shots, if needed.

You can get 2500+ fps from a 22" bbl with a 200 grainer, and they have excellent ballistic coefficient-they retain energy well (BC ~ 0.45 to 0.55, among the highest you will find). At this velocity, the bullet doesn't come apart. It stays together, expands, penetrates and delivers energy.

When you get a SD in the 0.30 range, you are now talking about classic game killing cartridge combinations: 6.5 and 160 grains, 7mm and 175 grain, 9.3 and 285/6 grains. All known for penetration and reliable performance-not high velocity.

The 180 grain/30-06 "just plain works." The 200 grain/30-06 "just plain works better" in my view, due to the higher penetration it carries for angled shots.

Premium bullets make the 180's penetrate better-no doubt. Maybe they make them perform like the next higher SD bullet, the 200 grainer?

Then of course there is the 220 grain/30 caliber...

It's odd that the 30 cal and 200 grain (Speer conventional Hot-Cor or Grand Slam)) bullet has been overlooked. It's a beautiful combo in a 30-06 case. If it can't be reliably taken with a 200 grain 30 cal, then I opt for more diameter. That's why I got a 9.3x62 (CZ 550 American)-but I still have my 30-06 (J.C. Higgins FN Mauser).

Some Heavyweight (200+grain) 30 cal bullets:
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/bullet_detail.aspx?id=103
http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/bullet_detail.aspx?id=104\
http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/75538 Lapua 200g Mega

<A HREF="http://www.lapua.com/hunting.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.lapua.com/hunting.html

http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/72538</A> Hornady 220 gr
http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/77265 Nosler 200gr Partition
http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/77234 Nosler 220 gr partition
http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/67245 BarnesX200
http://www.grafs.com/fc/product/67244 BarnesX180
http://www.northforkbullets.com/308-180.htm
http://www.northforkbullets.com/308-200.htm

PS: about your Dad's 32 Special 170 grain Win Silvertips and their deep penetration...
As you noted, they had moderate velocity (that by itself delays expansion/bullet stress). The "silver tip" was an aluminum covering that permitted deeper penetration (keep softer lead nose from expanding). Sometimes the silvertips didn't expand (too low velocity at impact). Bullet designers run a fine line between low-moderate impact velocity and then have a "protected tip" bullet to expand (like the silver tip's aluminum cap to assist penetration/delay expansion).

It just goes to show the benefits of bullet design for penetration/expansion/performance(and why the 180 grain Barnes Triple X / 180 gr Northfork/ Partition are the best 180 grainers for 30 cal).

The '06 and 180's is a classic and very effective elk load as well, but elk are big and tough - no up the ass and hind leg shots with any caliber if you expect to take one home. At '06 velocities the Hornady bullets will perform nicely. I used their 250 gr. bullet at 2800 fps from my 358 STA to take an elk last season. 100 yds, both shoulders and the spine. Dropped in her tracks and full penetration without excessive bloodshot meat. I'll use this bullet again.

Thanks guys for the information. I think I now "see". If I what deeper penetration than what I am getting with a 180gr bullet in my 30-06 I can do a number of things. 1. use an interbond-partition type bullet or at least a premium bullet with stronger ribs that the regular hornady bullet. 2. Or, slow down the 180 gr 3070 so that it will not deform too quickly on impact. 3. Or go to the regular 200-220 gr hornady bullet in which case speed will be automatically reduced and momentum will get me deeper penetration.

Deep penetration is important to me. Mostly,I hunt by stocking on foot when using a firearm. Often the game will be leaving the scene as I get to it. The only killing shot often is a bounding rear end, just under a wildly swaying white flag.

Note this is a shot that is do-able and effective with practice. Like I said my dad's 32 remington with WW silver tips gets bullets ahead of the diaphram on close-up deers (25-50yards) when shot under the flag. From the answers I have here I think I know why the 32 is effective. At the speed it is traveling the bullet is just robust enough to get in deep.The choice of the WW32round was initially because the tip of the bullet stayed intact in a pump action rifle with cycling, reloading,unloading etc...

Just as a note aside, I know of moose harvested here with a 6.5x55 (Carcano) who had been shot in the rear. Hunters did not think twice of not doing it, cause it worked. Now you had to be close and close was the only thing available when moose was plentiful in our maritime forest. Shooting at running away game was and is part of the excitement of the sport here.

Next hunting season I'm trying the hornady interbond and I have already 220grs loaded. I like hornady bullets because in my Interarms Mark X I found out long ago that after trying many premium "Target" bullets that the regular hornady bullets were just as accurate...expecially their 150 gr soft point!
Thanks guys for all of your appreciated help.

I find the Hornadys a bit soft especially if driven fast & at tough angles. I don't take rear raking shots but will take a frontal shot which is just as hard on bullets. If I can't get total or near total penetration on any game animla I am after then I need a better bullet or bigger gun. Switching to a 180grNP will work well on tougher angle shots but might not give you a quick kill on straight broadsides. For moose, I'ld move up to a premium 180gr or 200gr Speer, or 190gr Hornady.

If I think I will need to make a raking or rear end shot on game I choose a bullet known for deep penetrating, such as a Nosler Partition, Woodleigh Soft Trophy Bonded Bearcxlaw, Swift A Frame, Barnes X Winchester Fail Safe, or North Fork Soft.

I do know that in my 9,3x74R, on impala, a 286 Woodleigh Soft or a 286 Nosler Partition will exit on a front to rear, or a rear to front shot. Also a 293gr RWS TUG will exit on a frontal shot, breaking the rear leg bone on the way out of a whitetail deer.

Came across this thread on another accuratereloading.com forum (Alaskan hunting) about heavy bullets in the 30-06. Thought it fit in to this thread to lend more info.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8521043/m/478102955