The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles A .416 is a Medium boreGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Now that I have your attention, I do believe a .416 is a medium bore, but let's talk about the current definition. What is the largest game animal you would be comfortable with hunting with a .30-06 caliber rifle? | ||
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Legally? (*Stuff it with a 180gr. fmj and you can tattoo an elephant at 100 yards in the ear. Not particularly sporting or legal but it does fit the question.) Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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Moose and bear all european game. | |||
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NOt just the ear ,but effectively into the brain from just about any angle {excluding the going-away oblique shot} a 6.5mm ,7mm, .30cal, .375cal ...or .500cal pill travelling through the brain of an animal will have the same effect, the beast would not know the difference. | |||
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The last animal that I shot with a 30-06 was a guinea fowl. I don't plan on using the calbre. yes, I agree that the 416Rigby is a GREAT MEDIUM longrange calibre. It does hartebeest to buffalo, and yes, guineafowl, too. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I shot plenty of African plain games with 30-06 from Duiker to Eland, more bigger animal can be collected with this caliber but placement of shot & distance is very importan. In most of the African country legal caliber are defined, hence, need to use accordingly.... Sure, nobody wants to shoot an animal then spent hours of hours in tracking a wounded animal and at last when you heard "SORRY" we can't chase him or track him, everybody know what it means!......full charge of trophy fee...Auh...... I hate this.... Cheers. Regards to all. IH | |||
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I would like to share one of my experience by using 30-06 on Eland, shot him at distance of 80 meters approx at 9 am right on heart & lung position but punctured one lung, took me 7 hours to track him and found approx. 10 km away where I shot, running like hell.........but I was very lucky to track him beacuse of tracker......Gave me a big siegh of relive when got him in bag....... | |||
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Yes, with a calibre larger than a 30-06 a marginally hit animal will likely run less. An additional consideration is what to do when tracking a bunch of hartebeests for a mile before a shot, but then some very fresh buffalo tracks are seen and the only rifle in one's hands is a 30-06? I like the thread title for that scenario: "A .416 is a Medium bore." A practical minimum for walking out in an African forest might be a 375, 9.3, or 338. In many countries the legal minimum for DG is .375. All might get the job done and I would feel better than having only a 30-06. Anyway, there is the old East African rule of "40 calibre" that again raises the recognized benefit of the .416. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Leopard plus all the plains game except giraffe and eland. In the US all but the biggest bears. | |||
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well.. a heavy medium .. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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IH - what bullet were you using, please? I took my one and only Eland @ a lazered 176 meters using a .30-06 with Speer Grand Slam bullets (the old style, Speer Nitrex ammo). It spun around a couple of times and then fell. We ran to it and I put in a finisher. The safari company proprietor could hardly believe his ears when he heard the story! On another note, I dropped a massize 14 point moose @ 50 meters w/ a 7,62x53R - for all practical purposes a rimmed .30-06. He fell like pole-axed (literally - I haven't seen such before nor since) but kept kicking very long. It was hard to put in a decent finisher, I ended up shooting him 2 more times. My point being and to answer the question: One can very well take quite large game with a .30-06 especially if the bullet is of high quality and you hit the animal in the right spot. But "comfortably"? I would hesitate to take it against any dangerous game like bear or African cats and I am not quite unreserved in using it on moose. But apart from those, any other animals on four legs.... African plains game, elk, deer etc. Phil S. might chime in on this and disagree, but this is my view. For moose or bigger and dangerous animals I'd prefer to step up the caliber a bit. - Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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more (bigger bore) is better... | |||
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AGREE! According to Hatcher, a 165 gr AP round will penetrate 20" of Oak at 200 yards.. that should be enough for any ele skull I would think.. the big variable (I think) would be the bullet shape and the angle of impact, which could cause directional changes upon entry. That being said... I'll take my 375!  NRA Benefactor. Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne | |||
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I would use a 30-06 for any North American game and since that is all I hunt I would be good to go. Except I actually have a 308 for my main rifle. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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Lars, I was using 180 grain Hornady rounds, which was designed to give approx 2600 fps at this distance, the animal was quartering when I shot.
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For the person with only plainsgame on the ticket it don't really matter,..does it? People like C.Boddington who has been to Africa numerous times,suggests many recreational hunters would be better off taking the deer rifle that they are comfortable and familiar with, from using back home. [quote] " I am convinced that the vast majority of African plains game are best and most easily taken with a hunter’s favorite deer cartridge, be it a .270, a 7mm or a .30 caliber." "Based not only on my experience, but what I’ve observed, I’d be perfectly happy to recommend a .30-06 as an ideal plains game rifle. Or, for that matter, a 7×57 or .270 if that’s what you shoot best." -C.Boddington. [endquote] and be aware of the fact that Harry Selby had no problem guiding persons onto elephant and a whole range of plains game, using the humble 7x57 & traditional slow poking 175 solid,.. reporting that it performed just fine, doing all that was expected of it. Even Elmer Keith who was supposedly such a strong adviser of using larger bores, yet he himself actually chose to use his custom .280 OKH, very effectively on wide variety of African game. | |||
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Good advice!  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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In the words of a great african ivory hunter,. Not a quote but the point is clear. The 416 Rigby is all the cartridge any hunter ever needs. I will stop any animal. ...tj3006. | |||
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You can't start talking 416 and then revert to the plain vanilla that is 30-06  Personally, if I had nothing else available and using a 180gr Barnes TTSX or 200gr Swift A-Frame I would use it on Eland. I have better calibres for the job though, so I wouldn't. Wildebeest, Kudu, Gemsbuck etc. are definitely going to get Lead thrown their way if I've got an '06. Back to the first part of the post, a 330gr GSC HV Bullet at 2700fps, theoretically just as flat as a 30-06 with 180gr Loads, so there you have the ideal medium bore  "A peculiar virtue in wildlife ethics is that the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience, rather than by a mob of onlookers. It is difficult to exaggerate the importance of this fact." | |||
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Yeah, Deon, I can. To me, my .416 Rem will, and has, done it all. Elephant to duiker. Out to 300 yards. Numerous whitetails in the States, even a turkey. If I only had one rifle this would be it. I've carried a No. 2 several times ranging from a .375 H&H down to a .300 magnum of some description. Only picked up the No. 2 once (and missed). But, I'm going on a Western Tanzania hunt that has a focus on some plains game. Obviously, the big stuff will be relegated to the .416. My question, is, I've got a really sweet .30-06 weighs nothing. How big would you go? Eland, clearly no. But would you shoot a sable, roan, or zebra with an 06? Kudu no question, they are soft. What about a waterbuck? Most will say you can shoot all of the above with a .30-06 I suspect. Perhaps even eland. I'm just a bit cautious with such a slight caliber. | |||
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I shot my Eland with a 7mm RMag using a 150gr. Tip @ 3000 fps. I believe Saeed used a .270 win on one of his (*many) Eland. It's really all about shot placement. If the '06 was all I had, I'd use it and just pick my shots accordingly. Regards, Robert ****************************** H4350! It stays crunchy in milk longer! | |||
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Lavaca, enjoy your hunt!  Yes, the 06 will work, but your 416Rem should do it all if it is tuned accurately. The following should be doable in the Remmie:
+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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There's a book by YA Jones titled "One Man, One Rifle, One Land" where he chronicles taking every single big game animal in NA with a Remington 700 ADL chambered in a .30-06 using 180g handloads. Very good book. Each chapter chronicles an animal he hunted, Grizzlies & Polar Bear included. | |||
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The .416s are all good calibers but what I see as the problem with the .416 is it is neither fowl or fish. For shooting big dangerous game a close range at less than 100yards a heavy double of +450cal + heavier bullet is better and for longrange plains game a scoped .270-375cal magnum does it all. The .416s is not a plains caliber but neither is it a closerange stopping DG caliber. It has wings but can´t fly and it has finns but can´t swim. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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When I want a 416 to fly I load up a .444BC bullet to 2825fps. It sends a lot of HURT a LONG way. And I'm contemplating a .368BC bullet at 2900-2950fps to see how accurate. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Jens, Your post cuts to the bone, but it's well reasoned and I agree with some of it. And, as many have posted here, I would not want to have a .30-06 in my hand if I was confronted with an angry elephant cow (or bull) or a buffalo. That's not going to happen as I'll be carrying my .416. This is just about the small stuff and where you cut that off. A tracker will be carrying it. | |||
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I know the .416 can deliver the power but what kind of game is it that must have that kind of power in order to go down at long range?.(hunting perspective) From a tactical shooters view I would love the .416 Barnes. That´s one bad dude. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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I've used my -06 up here just fine on some big moose and took it to Zimbabwe and thought it was just fine on the plainsgame. I like the tsx's. If you bring a big and small rifle as you've mentioned, I don't see what the problem is. | |||
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Ive seen an elephant killed with a solid from a 30-06 and it ran about 100 yards and died..Saw another shot with a 7x57 solid it also ran about 100 or so yards and died, both heart shots. Therefore I assume a hole in the heart of any animal is deadly..If anyone has seen a heart shot animal survive I would have to challenge such. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The bigger question, Ray, is have you even seen someone miss the heart with a 30-06 solid? As for two guns on a safari, I like to be attached to both guns equally. The biggest danger is when a person treats the little gun as the 'go-for', reliable gun, and harbors a question or apprehension towards the big gun. Then the big gun is a detriment and a problem to be solved. Lots of shooting, maybe with plinking loads, more accuracy, dry firing, and even a different rifle or calibre if shooting the bigger rifle cannot be fixed. There is a legitimate concern for a big gun, of course. It may be a couple of pounds heavier and not the gun of choice if planning to walk several miles. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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JP: I've taken a Coke's hartebeest at just shy of 300 yards with my .416. I'm not inclined to shoot much further than that with anything. So the whole question about a .30-06 is really a want vs. need scenario except for the savings in weight on ammo. And, it might be a bit more appropriate for a small antelope, not that that has stopped me before. | |||
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+1  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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The handloaded 416 Rigby is the greatest all-around calibre ever designed for Africa. Flaaat shooting, over .400" diameter. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Lavaca, I've used the 30-06 quite a bit in Africa and when I lived in Alaska. With premium bullets like the 200 Nosler Partition and 180 TSX I think you are good for everything up to eland. It would probably be fine on eland too as long as you didn't have to shoot through too much animal to get to the vitals. I remember quite a few years ago Craig Boddington was writing about the '06. The way I remember it was he said he loved the caliber but it didn't have quite the penetration needed for the bigger antelope. his example was to say if he had a going away shot with an '06 on a big kudu effectively there was no shot. Fast forward to 2011. I took a shot on a big bull elk going dead away with my '06 shooting 180 TSX at 2740. The bull literally fell to the left once hit and was stone dead when we got to it. Penetration was from left hip into the chest destroying everything on the way. Take your '06 it will work great. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I shot a nice warthog and 2 buffalo with a .416. Works great And I dare say looks medium-ish next to the .505 White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Mark: Thanks for the response. I think I'd stick with my .416 on any of the really big antelope. But I suspect it would be proper for croc, kongoni, kudu, waterbuck, klippi, duiker, etc. | |||
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This has been up in the air for a decade or so..I never really could understand what difference it made except for non interesting conversation or pure argument.. I consider everything from a .375 and up a big bore, and let it go at that..It just strikes me as a silly juggling of the English language..  416 Tanzan, I think it would pretty hard to miss an elephants heart, its pretty big and range is usually about 10 yards..If I do then I will promply take his gun and run him off!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Elephant I shot with a 470 Nitro ran a ways before it died. The Elephant I shot with a 416 Rigby ran a ways before it died. Now one may have been more dead than the other,I couldn't tell. When I was younger and no one had told me better anything bigger than a .22 was called a big bore and they actually had Big Bore matches that used such guns a 30-06's. I have reached 81 years and it has meant absolutely nothing to me what size any rifle is called. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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+1 | |||
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