Guys looking for a new rig, I live in Fl and mainly hunt there, SC, TX for whitetails, but also elk and mulies are in the works plus sheep and maybe even plains game in africa, im only 23 so i want this to last me many years and cover many miles. .284 as a minium,, but a faster 30 cal sounds best, 24 or 25 in barrel, in 7.5lb rifle

30 caliber

The 338 is hard to beat for flexibility, especially when you throw in the bigger critters.

dont want a 338, really think 300wsm might be the way to go

Shoot One
I think you are on the right track. A good 300 Mag is hard to beat. Even if a fella has 50 different rifles in 50 different calibers, a 300 Mag is a must have IMHO.

I would start by picking the rifle you like the best. Handle as many of them as possible, every brand, every length of action.

Once you decide on a rifle figure out what 30 caliber it is available in. This may sound truly boring, but a 30-06 would not be a bad choice. In addition the 300 Rem SAUM, 300WSM, 300 WinMag, 300 Weatherby, 300RUM all would be great choices.

How much recoil do you want to tolerate?

I can't emphasize enough to pick a rifle you truly feel comfortable with. If you are 5 foot 6 inches tall. A Remington Model Seven may feel the best. If you are 6 foot 6 inches tall. A magnum length action may feel the best. In between, maybe a standard action Ruger.

I think being comfortable and familiar with the rifle is more important than the actual cartridge. Any of the above cartridges will work in the scenarios you have given.

It may be boring, but a 30-06 would be an ideal choice...

Another vote for the 30-06.

Shame you don't want a .338 Win Mag ... works better on large animals that a .30. Guess superb performance on the biggest NA game, being the choice for Alaskan game, and being a superb Plains game round doesn't count enough. Oh well.

If not a 338 Win Mag, then there really isn't another choice except one of the Big 30's for the hunts you describe. They can do it all. I'd choose the 300 Win Mag personally.

358 winchester, in a short action gun, 22" light as you can get it barrel, and go shoot.

bc of .411, 225 gr bullet, 2500fps...or basically a lake city 308 target load with 165s with nearly twice the energy at impact all the way

less recoil than a 338, short action, CHEAP pistol bullets for practice

or build a 376 steyr on a mauser

jeffe

A 325WSM may be an interesting caliber. It certainly doesn't have the staying power, availability, etc... of the 30-06, but it maybe a nice compromise between the 30 cals. and the 338Win mag.

I believe when all is said and done, it is tough to beat the '06 for all around N. American game.

If your going to go up from there I would go all the way up to a .300 RUM-- you can always load it down and will give you an ENORMOUS amount of flexibility...JMO.

IV

Three cartridges come to mind:
7mmRem.Mag.
30-06
338Win.Mag.

The first two I can see in a 7.5lb. rifle. Add scope, etc., and end up around 8.5lb. field ready.
For the 338WM I'd want to start with a rifle weight of approx. 8lbs.
Of course, this all depends a lot on how you tolerate recoil, and the stock design of the rifle you choose which will, of course, influence this.

Any one gun hunter deserves nothing less than the do-it-all 30-06. It's even better when you're a handloader.

Another vote for the .30-06 . This grey bearded cartridge is still the one that every other .30 Cal is measured against.

IMHO it is the best choice and gives the most in terms of bullet choices, killing power and accuracy while not killing your shoulder. Factory ammo is cheaper than .30 Cal magnums and from time to time you can get a fire sale price on Military surplus ammo for cheap practicing and plinking.

06 or 7mag, they'll kill everything on your list and won't beat you up doing it.

I agree, 06 or 7 Mag... it takes quite a lot of time behind the butt to be able to tolerate the recoil levels of the 300's and 338 WM (while maintaining accurate shooting).

There are, IMHO, only two cartridges that REALLY are all-around North American big game hunting rounds; they are the .30-06 for anyone who is not recoil resistant and the .338 Win. Mag. for those who can handle it well....and it is not that easy, although doable.

I prefer 180 premiums in the .30-06 and 250 premiums in the .338 and have four .06s and five .338s at present. In all honesty, after more than 40 years in the hunting field of B.C. and working in the wilderness of the N.W.T. and Alberta, even been in the Yukon, I think that nothing beats the old '.06-180 NP and sometimes wonder why I bother with all these other rifles.

Brad and Mike have it right, get an 06. The majority of people can not shoot a 300 mag or 338 as well as an 06. A significant can't shoot them at all as far as I'm concerned. I've got friends that used to shot all the time, marrmots etc with their big game rifles and now that they have a 338 or some other hell fire mag. they never shoot it except during hunting season. It kicks the sh*t out of them and they don't like it but are too embarased to go back to their 270 or 06.

I've gotten some crap from 338 and 300 Win Mag shooters for this but my opinion is based on a lot of experience. Try guiding deer, elk etc in Montana and Colo for a few seasons and you will see examples of grossly over-gunned with every group of hunters that comes into camp.

High velocity is no subsitute for practice. I had a couple of 338's and I practiced a lot with them, and it was not fun, and I am a hell of a lot better shot with my 270. Yes, most high V calibers will shoot "flatter" than an 06, but if you can only shoot 3 inch groups at 100, from field positions not from a bench rest, how do you think you'll fair at 400?

OK, rant over.

Seriously, get the best rifle you can afford, buy a scope that is its equal in quality. Take the whole to a really good gunsmith and have him square the whole thing up for you. Bed it, true it up, polish the action, adj. the trigger, whatever necessary to make it function flawlessly.

If you come out west, buy a really good range finder, they are a great help.

With an 06 you can reload for anything or buy great ammo almost anywhere in a pinch.

HM, that's no rant, just the truth... apparently the Montana boys on this thread are blessed with uncommonly good sense

I agree that for most guys, the 30-06 makes perfect sense. Read J.Y. Jones' incredible book, "One Man, One Rifle, One Land" and you'll see what can be done with a good hunter armed with a 30-06.

Personally, though, I'll stick with my 300 Win. Mag. and 180 Noslers for 98% of the world's big game. As good as the '06 is, the 300's more rifle if you can shoot it well, and I've put in a lot of years and thousands of rounds practice ammo to learn that cartridge and to know what I can do with it.

The worst thing you can do is buy a 300 or 338 and then not practice. If the recoil's too much as you start out, stick with it anyway and take your time.

I do recognize that not everyone can learn to shoot something bigger than the '06. If that's the case, then the worst thing you can do is lie to yourself about it. What you should do in that situation is tell yourself the truth, then trade the 300 or 338 in on an '06. And then don't look back. Just put in plenty of time at the range and go hunting...........

AD

I'm in the process of putting together such a rifle over the next year or so. This gun will be used primarily for the deer hunting that I do.

It will be built on a Model 70 Classic action. The cartridge will be 300 Win Mag. I will confess that I don't like recoil that much, even though I do shoot a 338 Win Mag a lot. My handloads will be about 2900 fps with a 180 grain bullet. I want a bit more than the 30-06 has to offer, but don't really need all that the 300 Win Mag can provide. I really thought long and hard about the 300 H&H, and the 308 Norma too. But in the end decided on the 300 Win Mag for a variety of reasons.

The stock will be a McMillan, possibly the Edge technology, maybe Echol's legend design, or the Supergrade stock by McMillan. I believe it's a copy of the David Miller designed Supergrade stock. It will be inletted and bedded by McMillan.

Barrel will be top quality, trigger and safety will be gone through, Talley mounts and bases, using their 8x40 bases, receiver drilled accordingly. I haven't decided on bottom metal. I don't need more capacity as I rarely carry more than 3 rounds in my guns now. I have a Wisner extracter already. All done by a competent gunsmith, whom I haven't chosen as of yet.

Should be fun, and I'm not in any hurry.

.280 roger

It's boaring & I don't own one but the .30-06 makes a lot of sense, especially in a 7.5# rig. If you don't handload, it's a hands down choice. The .30mags will gove you a bit more reach but beat the snot out of you in a light rifle. I like the .280 in a 7-7.5# rifle. Recoil is just not an issue & w/ 175gr bullets @ 2700fps, or 140gr @ 2950fps, you can cover most of the worlds game, but it really is a handloaders round.

ShootOne

Have to say I am puzzled. You ask for an opinion on what might be best to hunt all of NA big game including the largest species there, and also potentially some game in Africa, then within two posts you discount one of the answers and opine that a 30 mag may be what you want. Sounds like you want a 30 mag and want everybody to justify your decision.

This is a never ending debate, but for what its worth, the 30 magnums are the least attractive to me. I own over 50 rifles, but I have shot all the game I have hunted in the last 15 yrs with one 338. The recoil may be heavy, but it hurts less than any of the 300 magnums which I have owned. I have purchased 5 different 300 mags over the years and sold all of them due to the discomfort of shooting. I am not sensitive to recoil. I like to plink with big bores. However, the combination of light weight and recoil velocity makes these generally rough to shoot.
Also, while it may be due to bullet design and velocity, I have seen more real failures and poor performance on game with 300 magnums than any other class of gun. Conversly, performance of the 338 with its heavy bullet and moderate velocity has always been a certain killer on everything from coyote to elk. Trajectory allows hits out to 350 yds, which is as far as anyone should generally shoot at game. The whole "500 yd trajectory" thing is fallacious, since these distances generally occur only in the west, and typically misses at ranges over 200 yds are due to windage vs trajectory.

Art - except for the 300 H&H, I totally agree with you. I am a big fan of the 338 Winchester, but like the magnum 30s, it isn't a cartridge for everybody.

shootone--good question, you've got some good info and advice to go off so far. I'll add some thoughts to this if you don't mind.

First off go back to SDhunters post and read it carefully. What he said about fit and feel is spot on! Honesty the round is the thing I'd worry about the least! There are a ton of good ones to choose from.

I'd find one that I like and I would get in a minimum of 500 rounds a year behind it. More if you aspire to get good with it.

I'd also get myself a backup, you may not use it much but I can't believe any serious hunter would ever go anywhere without a backup some where around.

Cal's-well there is a slug of good ones. Given your guidelines (not below 28 and not above 338) I'd be for going either 06,7 RM,or one of the 300 mags. Pick one and shoot the heck out of it, if you shoot it and handle it a lot I guarantee you irregardless of which cal you choose you'll not be disappointed!

A lot of people chat about recoil and it is a factor to consider. Especially if you want a rifle all up at 7.5 pounds.

Here are my thoughts about recoil and the magnum cals.

I believe recoil bothers people because:

*they don't shoot them (to be precise that cal) enough

*a lot of the factory rifles don't have enough tube weight. I like mine to be at least .65 at the muzzle and some are up to .7". This makes them a lot easier to control IMO.

*and lastly I do believe to some extent different people have different tolerance levels of recoil. I really do expect that most of this can be overcome thru practice.

I personally do not belive people are over gunned, as much as I believe that people are underprepared to shoot their chosen rounds.

I've done a ton of shooting of chucks and yotes with my 340 and had no problems with it for what that is worth. But then again I am on my 4th tube for my 340, and not many people are gonna take the time to practice with a gun that much. Let alone one that can be as cheeky as a 340...grins

A couple of last things.

The book that Allen spoke of is an excellent book and one that you may enjoy. If I remember right JY used a 06 for all comers. I belive now he is using a 7 RUM a bit for what that is worth. To me this only means the cal really doesn't matter as much as your time with it.

Lastly someone mentioned that he'd seen more poor performance and failures out of the 300's than any other round. Now I would agree with this but only to the extent that it was the shooters failure and their poor performances! It was not the rounds!

If you cornered me and said I had to barrel my old 700 to one cal., and stay there for life it is no doubt it would be the 300 Wby end of story.

Just a few thoughts on a August afternoon, feels like it might give us some white in the mtns tonight.

Good luck in your persuit

MD

Oh yeah one last quick thing, you look around a bit and there are a lot of fellas out there that have used a 300 of some sort or another to take just about everything on Noah's big boat. You gotta belive that people like E Gates and Allen had something on the ball to choose those cal's. Just a thought...

You can't go wrong with a 300 or 338 mag, but the current trend seems to be to get a 300 and use 150 or 165 grain bullets or to get a 338 and shoot 210 grainers or even the 180-200 grain plastic tipped wonders. To me that seems like a waste of perfectly good SD capacity, but, whatever, I guess.

My choices would be a 300 Win loaded with 190-200 grain bullets

A 338 Win stuffed full of 250 grainers

Or better still, an 8mm Rem Mag with handloaded 220 grain Swifts.

If large bears are not going to be hunted, and overseas travel may be in the game, then the 7 rem mag if you find the 300 win mag a bit much for precision shooting. These have been around long enough to have ammo available most any place brass is cheep and lots of bullets about for reloading or in factory made for most any hunting you may do. Right now, if I was to pick the one and only, it would be in rem 350 mag. Short action fast shooting in the rem custom shop mod 7 hits hard, and can be loaded down to 38spl power for small game and plinking and up to and includeing stuff for big bears. But you better not get your gun and ammo seperated. A 35 whelen would work just the same but in a standard action, but performance is the same.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
.280 roger

The .280 is a very underrated and overlooked cartridge. It's only rival is the .30-06 and I'm not sure if the old '06 is better.

I wouldn't ever feel undergunned carrying a .280 for the game this thread is started for.

Gentlemen

7X64 or 8X68S

Cheers
/JOHAN

thanks for the imput, i know the 338 is a great round but i hunt mostly in fl, sc and tx and i feel that is just too much gun for 150lb whitetails. this is gun is going to see more whitetails than anything with probably 1 elk hunt per year throw in some mulies and hopefully in 3 yrs take it to africa for kudu, gemsbuck, etc. i know the 06 is great and im thinking hard about it but might lean towards the 300wsm. 3250 with 150g and around 3000 with the 180g i think those would be the perfect loads a 150 accubond for deer then a 180g part for elk and heavier game. i have shot one in an 8lb rig and recoil was very toliberale so i might lean towards an hs precision sporter lightweight, 24in barrel, and should wiegh a tad under 7lbs add a 4.5-14 vx3 some talley rings and i should be set what do yall think about that? thanks agian for all the imput

quote:

Originally posted by ShootOne:
thanks for the imput, i know the 338 is a great round but i hunt mostly in fl, sc and tx and i feel that is just too much gun for 150lb whitetails. this is gun is going to see more whitetails than anything with probably 1 elk hunt per year throw in some mulies and hopefully in 3 yrs take it to africa for kudu, gemsbuck, etc. i know the 06 is great and im thinking hard about it but might lean towards the 300wsm. 3250 with 150g and around 3000 with the 180g i think those would be the perfect loads a 150 accubond for deer then a 180g part for elk and heavier game. i have shot one in an 8lb rig and recoil was very toliberale so i might lean towards an hs precision sporter lightweight, 24in barrel, and should wiegh a tad under 7lbs add a 4.5-14 vx3 some talley rings and i should be set what do yall think about that? thanks agian for all the imput

It's up to you, but I wouldn't get too hung up on the speed aspect. For anything you've mentioned a 30-06 loaded to 2800 with 180 grain bullets will do the job. Hard to argue with almost a hundred years of shooting results.

I shot a deer last year with my 338 Win Mag loaded with a 210 Nosler Partition.

Bang, flop. 4 feet sticking straight up in the air, it didn't take a step. There was very little meat damage. A 150 grain Ballistic tip cruising along at 3000 feet per second would probably damage a lot more meat than the 210 Nosler at 2900.

The 338 Win Mag works great on deer.

Sounds to me like you need 2 guns. A 270, and a 338

JBabcock,

That's how it all starts, next thing you know a 223 or 22-250, 17HMR, maybe a 416, then a try a lever action.

It's a slippery slope that we've all gone down.
Isn't it great.

The reality is that from 280-338 Win Mag will all do what is needed. I personally have 22-250, 270, 338-06, 375 H&H. I figure if that doesn't cover it I'm in trouble.

I could replace the 270 and 338-06 with one of the 30's and reduce my inventory. Or I could just use the 338-06 and get rid of the 270, but what fun would that be?

I did not mention the 338-06 strictly because of the ammo/rifle availability.

You can use 165/180 grain Barnes/Noslers on deer/antelope and not be overgunned. Go up to 250 grain for bigger game and not be undergunned. I think the 338-06 is actually more versatile than it's parent for big game hunting.

I would not hesitate to use mine on on everything up to Cape buffalo, and even then I feel I could the job with stout well constructed bullets in the right place.

Shootone,

I would go with a 338 win, 338 ultra, or 340WBY mag.

They will do it all.

505ED

Since the thread is ultimate NA cal, it would be either the 300 win mag or 338 win mag. For something that shoots flat, hits hard, and ammo is available the world over, the 300 win mag can't be touched. For something that hits harder, still shoots plenty flat, and is also a world standard, the 338 win mag is tough to beat.

The real question is, what's more important to you, trajectory or wound channel? I'd go with the 338, because 225's @ 2900 are plenty flat and will hit hard enough for all NA game.

I bought a savage .300 win mag some years ago. It kicked my ass at first, I got better with time and practice but the best $$ I have ever spent was I recently had a Stockade stock put on it w/ a Limbsaver recoil pad and a mercury recoil reducer in the stock. I have a .270 in the same savage rifle and you can't tell the difference between it's recoil and the .300 win's since changing stocks. I wouldn't sacrifice what the .300 win can do for you because of recoil. Recoil can be managed.

.35 Whelen!!!