180 TSX at 300 Yards




180 TSX at 425 Yards

Fair enough (and impressive) but how do other bullets shoot in your rifle (ie. is the TSX actually more accurate than others "in your rifle")?

Most bullet shoot well in this rifle.. At 100 TSX and AccuBonds and SMKs shoot about the same at the longer distances 550) and beyound the TSX out grouped the AccuBond in my rifle...

quote:

At 100 TSX and AccuBonds and SMKs shoot about the same at the longer distances %%) aand bryound the TSX out grouped the AccuBond in my rifle...

Thanks, that is more useful information.

I hear so much about how great a bullet shoots in someones rifle but it doesn't help much (I've got problems getting anything other than AMAXs to shoot sub MOA in mine).

I might try TSXs (although I really want something cheaper to work well) and really put them to the test next year.

I havent noticed TSX's to be any more accurate in my rifles. The do seem to be a bit more picky, but I havent had a gun that I couldnt get them to shoot out of.
Terminal effects are another can o worms. While they penetrate very well I am not convinced that they are a superior deer bullet. Though I need more kills with em to cement my position.
I cant wait to try the E-tip as it appears to open up a bit wider and may strike a better balance between tissue destruction and penetration.

How can E-Tips possiable open wider?
If you can catch a TSX they look like this.



They are extremely hard to catch,because of their tremendous ability to penetrate..Allowing a killing shot from any angle...As well as being able to shoot lighter wieghts for more velocity and still out penetrating heavier lead core bullets

I have a 100gr, .25 call TSX that I "caught" sitting on my desk at the moment.......
the E tip will expand wider because its hollowpoint/cavity is drilled deeper.

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Walker:
I have a 100gr, .25 call TSX that I "caught" sitting on my desk at the moment.......
the E tip will expand wider because its hollowpoint/cavity is drilled deeper.

I know that TSX can be caught I just posted a picture of one that I caught.
A deeper hollow point means a shorter shank, not a wider mushroom.. Wouldn't the petals fold to the shank as all other mushrooming bullets do?

No, they would not. The distance between the hollowpoints wall and the exterior of the bullet get thicker the deeper the hollowpoint is drilled(till you hit the staright section). The HP on the E-Tip actually extends clear past the ogive of the bullet.
Its not magic that TSX's penetrate the way they do. The simply have a smaller frontal area than other bullets. This translates into deeper penetration and less tissue damage as compared to a bullet that opens wider.

Your logic is flowed, the hole in the TSX is very small. I dought that the E-Tips hollow point is drilled, I would venture that it is extruded.. Drilling would increase cost..

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Walker:
No, they would not. The distance between the hollowpoints wall and the exterior of the bullet get thicker the deeper the hollowpoint is drilled(till you hit the staright section). The HP on the E-Tip actually extends clear past the ogive of the bullet.
Its not magic that TSX's penetrate the way they do. The simply have a smaller frontal area than other bullets. This translates into deeper penetration and less tissue damage as compared to a bullet that opens wider.

The tissue damage of the TSX is outstanding as show in these photos

Zebras heart,




Bull Elks Liver (6X7) Blew the end 1/3 away and the Bull could not go.

TSX offer fast expansion as evidenced by this photo of a 30 cal 150 grain



A photo of the dissruption the TSX causes,

If you don't get it then you don't get it


This thread has been hijacked as it was started to talk about accuracy

My logic isnt flawed at all. Its a fact that the Nosler E tips hole extends down farther into the bullet than a TSX;'s does. It is a fact that the E Tip expands to a wider frontal diameter.
I used drilled ina generic way. nosler i would think impact extrudes its bullet while Barners might swage. I dont know for certain and it really doesnt matter as it pertains to this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Walker:
My logic isnt flawed at all. Its a fact that the Nosler E tips hole extends down farther into the bullet than a TSX;'s does. It is a fact that the E Tip expands to a wider frontal diameter.
I used drilled ina generic way. nosler i would think impact extrudes its bullet while Barners might swage. I dont know for certain and it really doesnt matter as it pertains to this thread.

Your logic is flawed in the sense that the hole is smaller to allow for a wider frontal area..
Show me the pictures of the wider expanded frontal area of the E-Tip. How do they keep the petals from folding back to the shank? The depth of the hole will create a shorter shank for sure,but how does that createw a larger frontal area. I would love to see it..
I see no problem with the terminal performance of the TSX as it is... If a problem exist show me..Between myself and hunting buddies we are appraoching about 100 animals taken and can not see a problem with the TSX..

How much field experience do you have with the TSX?

Now I see why you don't get it...You've never used them and don't intended to... Why are you posting, since you have nothing to add?

TSX's are very accurate in several but not all of my rifles.

Geronimo

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Because you showed a gut pile with unremarkable evidence of superior bullet performance.

I showed 2 pictures and if you can that unremarkable, then I quest your motives.. Show me something better or STFU...

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Your logic is flawed in the sense that the hole is smaller to allow for a wider frontal area..
Show me the pictures of the wider expanded frontal area of the E-Tip.

For pictures do a search. There was a article in one of the the gun rags that had pics and talked about this issue.
Its the depth of the hole that controls how far the bullet expands and the metallurgy, bullet shape and cavity shape that determins width when expanded.
For what I use a bullet for and for my needs a partition is a better set of trade offs VS a TSX. I suspect the E-tip is a step in the right direction also.

quote:

Its not magic that TSX's penetrate the way they do. The simply have a smaller frontal area than other bullets. This translates into deeper penetration and less tissue damage as compared to a bullet that opens wider.

The frontal area of this 180gr-.308" tsx recovered from a large bull elk is certainly not small.At .800" it is a large as I have seen.

Those of us that use the TSX realize that the TSX have plenty of frontal area....

TSX seems to have a hard core cult thing happening. I've used them and like them. However, I have had them pencil through lighter skinned game. Dead nevertheless.

As far as accuracy goes, the TSX seems to have the edge in the 270 and 300win I've loaded them in. They are a bit more accurate than the Partitions I load. I actually got a lot of satisfaction shooting tiny groups with TSX in my hunting rifles. However at the end of the day, for reliability and on game performance, I give the nod to the Partition.

I am skeptical of the penciling claims, do you have pictures of the wound channel? I have shot some very small game and have seen NO evidence of penciling..

This is about an 80 animal



and this is the exit




The exit in the Zebra is small in the hide




Yet the hole through the Zrbra's Heart is HUGE hardly Penciling

I suppose it's like anything else...if you're committed to your beliefs, they are not easily shaken.

I have shot TSX through three small Texas whitetails broadside which had bore diameter size exit wounds. All were just as dead as the critters in your pics. I don't take pictures on meat hunts so no evidence of what I say. Believe it or not.

jwp457

Impressive groups going back to the thread. What cartridge are you shooting, I presume 30 cal? Apart from great skill at long ranges I presume your rifle is customised what do you shoot?
I hunt exclusively with copper bullets and found the accuracy excellent even without load development.
Here is my 375 H+H, no load development just 73.3 gn of RL 10x at 120yds. Unmodified hunting rifle.



As far as penciling is concerned that is a myth with copper hollowpoints . The wound channel is greater about 3" in due to the petals fragmenting off the shank but the exit is smaller than conventional as the shank returns to just over caliber and is shoulder stabilised.

You are correct on all counts. The all copper bullets are very accurate. My load developement consisted of selecting a load and loading it..
Yes my rifle is custom and it is in 300 Win and the bullets are 180 grain... I agree that many look at the exit in the hide and assume "no Expansion" without checking the internals, which are soup...

Very nice group....

quote:

The frontal area of this 180gr-.308" tsx recovered from a large bull elk is certainly not small.At .800" it is a large as I have seen.

Taking a simple measurement of the widest point of a expanded bulelt IS NOT a measure of frontal area.
I agree on the cult thing.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkH:


As far as penciling is concerned that is a myth with copper hollowpoints . The wound channel is greater about 3" in due to the petals fragmenting off the shank but the exit is smaller than conventional as the shank returns to just over caliber and is shoulder stabilised.

I can say from expiereance it wasnt a myth with the original X bullets.. The TSX must of had some sort of issue to as Barnes is adding a plastic tip to them now. Or maybe the tip is to increase the fairly low BC. If its the latter I find that quit odd as the rings on the shank kill BC.

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Taking a simple measurement of the widest point of a expanded bulelt IS NOT a measure of frontal area.

It looks like a large frontal area to me.And you have to remember that the bullet is rotating as it penetrates,so it displaces more material than if it was simply pushed through a media without rotating.

TSX accuracy sucks out of my 375 H&H with a 4X scope:

Stubble, its not secret that a TSX penetrates deeper than most every other bullet. The dos o because they have less frontal area. This si a fact.
There are plenty of bullets that retain all their weight that penetrate less. Swift A frame, and the Woodleigh come to mind.

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The dos o because they have less frontal area. This si a fact.

So you are saying that most other bullets provide more frontal area upon expansion than the bullet that I posted?That hasn't been my experience.

They are by far the most accurate bullet, if a rifle likes them. My rifles shoot better than me with TSX. Hell if I aim at the next target over I'll still shoot a 1/2in group.

I have been a hard core TSX reloader. My bullet shelf on my reloading bench is nothing but TSX! The past few years that is the only bullet I've hunted with and killed shitloads of game. One of the reasons I got rid of my 7STW is because it wouldn't shoot TSX (I tried 140s, 150s and 160s [I know the rifle shoots because it'll put 3 140gr Accubonds in a cloverleaf]).

That being said the last two deer I shot had zero blood trail. They are an absolutely terrific penetrating bullet, I have become convinced though that they are better suited to medium sized game where penetration is a must. They just penetrate thin skinned game too well. The pencil phenomenon is a bit inaccurate in that I truly believe they do expand to an X. However, they penetrate thin skinned animals so much so that they do go through and through, making one think they haven't expanded. Now I will say that as the velocity decreases, the "pencil" phenomenon diminishes. At 250-300 yards they are ideal on deer/thin skinned game, full penetration and good damage. But at 100 yards or so they penetrate too well.........

I leave for South Texas on weds. Right now I've got 130gr Grand Slams and 140gr Bear Claws loaded up for a range test tommorrow. I still have 15 or so TSX ready to go as back up, but my bubble has been burst.

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Walker:
Stubble, its not secret that a TSX penetrates deeper than most every other bullet. The dos o because they have less frontal area. This si a fact. There are plenty of bullets that retain all their weight that penetrate less. Swift A frame, and the Woodleigh come to mind.

I have a 300 grain .375 cal.TBC recovered from an 1880 pound Longhorn and a 225 grain .338 cal. TSX recovered from the same animal and when you look at the bullets you can not detect that one is larger than the other..

Where do you get your facts??

I'm with FMC, except I started switching about a year ago. It started when I shot a couple of pigs with the 140 gr TSX out of a 270 at about 3200 fps MV. No blood trail and no pig. Just a few drops of blood on above the ground grass stems. A friend of mine got some bad results with his 7-08.

The last good results I got was on a 5x5 Elk at 253 yards with 180 gr TSX's out of a 300 win mag at about 3100 fps. That was 2 shots in and DRT so I can't say whether there would have been a blood trail or not. Not much meat damage though.

I've been switching to Accubonds more and more. I would not hesitate to use the TSX's in the larger calibers and at acceptable speeds such as 200 gr out of a 300 win mag at 2900 fps or 225 gr in a 338 win mag at 2800 fps.

To answer the question, accuracy was always outstanding but the Accubond is just about as good and I get better results at the longer ranges with the Accubonds. Must be all the cannelures on the TSX's creating more turbulence and lowering the BC.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:

quote:

The dos o because they have less frontal area. This si a fact.

So you are saying that most other bullets provide more frontal area upon expansion than the bullet that I posted?That hasn't been my experience.

Some bullets do, some dont.
Take the partition for instance. It expands to a slightly larger diameter in most calibers and generaly penetrates a bit less than the TSX. Now, take a bullet like the Swift Scirroco, or Hornady IB. Either expands to quit a bit wider frontal area and they also penetrate alot less when compared to a TSX.
Again, dont confuse a simple measure accross the widest point of the expanded bullet as frontal area. The buzz saw effect you talked about earlier doesnt exist because the bullet doesnt spin no where near fast enough. One look at Barnes ballistic gelatin video will show this to be true.

I can see that I may have to chime in on this subject again. As much as I hate too.

quote:

I have a 300 grain .375 cal.TBC recovered from an 1880 pound Longhorn and a 225 grain .338 cal. TSX recovered from the same animal and when you look at the bullets you can not detect that one is larger than the other..

I hate to state the obvious, but your comparing apples to pears.
BTW the TBC in larger calibers doesnt expand very wide by design, hence your observation. Given the intended purpose of the .416 it makes perfect sense.

BTW from my testing using a half dozen differant guns in various chamberings I dont think the TSX's are as accurate as Sierra MK's, Nosler BT's or Bergers on average. Of course they are a hunting bullet and in that capacity they are plenty accurate enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Walker:

quote:

I have a 300 grain .375 cal.TBC recovered from an 1880 pound Longhorn and a 225 grain .338 cal. TSX recovered from the same animal and when you look at the bullets you can not detect that one is larger than the other..

I hate to state the obvious, but your comparing apples to pears.
BTW the TBC in larger calibers doesnt expand very wide by design, hence your observation. Given the intended purpose of the .416 it makes perfect sense.

How did the 416 get injected into the discusion