will a 30-06 with factory 180-gr cup-and-core bullets humanely kill a full-grown steer or cow, shot in the boiler room? presuming 100 yds away or so, shot in the lungs.

just curious.


edit for spelling

Absolutely 100%
Been there and it!

JOC's wife (Elenore I think) used a 30-06 to kill an elephant. They're somewhat bigger than Bossy.

all of the farmers and butchers that I've ever known uses a .22lr to the brain.

If a spike hammer swung by a 9year old will, the a 3006 is a bit of overkill even

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:
will a 30-06 with factory 180-gr cup-and-core bullets humanely kill a full-grown steer or cow, shit in the boiler room? presuming 100 yds away or so, shot in the lungs.

just curious.

When slaughtering domestic animals, as opposed to hunting a wild animal, the term "humanely" is interpreted somewhat differently. No, it would not be considered "humane" to slaughter a domestic bovine by shooting it in the lungs with a .30-06. Will it die in a relatively short time when so shot? Of course it will, just like an elk or a moose, either of which is close to its body mass. Is it humane to hunt a 1200-lb moose by shooting it in the thorax with a .30-06? Most people would say yes, although it may very well run for a hundred yards and take 30 to 90 seconds to actually expire. (You don't want Bossy, which you intend to turn into burger and steaks, running around the neighborhood for a minute and a half bleeding from a chest wound before she drops in someone's driveway.)

When hunting cows I like to stalk up a bit closer than 100 yards. It is much more sporting don't you think?

You want a domestic animal , that you intend to eat , to die instantly . You don't want them to get that shot of adrenalin , makes the meat tougher and doesn't help the taste either . Shoot from a hundred yards if you must , but shoot it in the head . I prefer putting powder burns on them with a .22 Mag., right between the peepers !

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Bromley:
You want a domestic animal , that you intend to eat , to die instantly . You don't want them to get that shot of adrenalin , makes the meat tougher and doesn't help the taste either . Shoot from a hundred yards if you must , but shoot it in the head . I prefer putting powder burns on them with a .22 Mag., right between the peepers !

That's what the farmer I know does.

Adrenalin and "tough meat" ! Now there is a bit of thread off a old wives yarn

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
all of the farmers and butchers that I've ever known uses a .22lr to the brain.

A pick-handle or a hickory handle from a 12lb hammer, on the point of the horn or on the boss. Just cut the throat before it wakes up. Done.

Posted 15 May 2012 23:21 Hide Post
Adrenalin and "tough meat" ! Now there is a bit of thread off a old wives yarn

That's why abattoir slaughtered beef has hang for at least 14 days. Stress and adrenalin.

[quote]will a 30-06 with factory 180-gr cup-and-core bullets humanely kill a full-grown steer or cow, shit in the boiler room? presuming 100 yds away or so, shot in the lungs.[/quote]

Where does it state he is planning on EATING this animal???????????????????????????????

Some of you all must have a crystal ball, because I don't ssee any reference in regards to eating the damn thing after it is shot.

Scriptus my friend, pray explain how adrenaline "toughens" up meat and how it effects taste ?

This is going to be very very interesting indeed!

Lactic acid buildup in the muscle tissue.
Carcasses usually hang 48 hours sometimes 72 but autolysis doesn't do anything for tenderness after 72hrs. They are covered with a cotton shroud to smooth the fat and pick up the blood.
I once shot a zebra that bled out instead of being killed by the bullet impact. He ran over a mile loosing blood by the bucketful. When I got to him his "stay apparatus" had him locked in place standing while his muscles were so full of lactic acid he could not move even to turn his head and look at me. I shot him and he fell with his feet sticking out like he had rigor mortis.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Scriptus my friend, pray explain how adrenaline "toughens" up meat and how it effects taste ?

This is going to be very very interesting indeed!

Alf

There is actually fairly extensive literature on the subject-and its conclusive- adrenaline release toughens meat.
http://books.google.com/books?...%20in%20meat&f=false


http://www.beefresearch.org/CM...rness%20problems.pdf
Attenuation of Stress-Induced Beef Quality and Tenderness Problems
Principal Investigators: P. D. Bass, J. D. Tatum, K. E. Belk, S. L. Archibeque, T. E. Engle, & G. C. Smith, Colorado State University
Study Completed May 2009
®
Funded by The Beef Checkoff
Attenuation of Stress-Induced Beef Quality and Tenderness Problems: Project Summary
Background
Exposure of cattle to pre-harvest stress (either psychological or physical) increases the incidence of meat quality defects. Stress stimulates release of catecholamines (epinephrine and norepinephrine) into the animal’s circulatory system, causing a number of physiological responses including increased heart and respiration rates, elevated body temperature, decreased protein degradation and increased breakdown of liver and muscle glycogen reserves. Short-term pre-harvest stress, accompanied by elevated blood epinephrine concentrations, reduces beef tenderness without affecting final muscle pH (normal pH = 5.4 to 5.5) or lean color. Longer-term, sustained stress depletes muscle glycogen reserves, resulting in high-pH (≥ 5.8), dark-cutting beef. A high frequency of meat toughness problems usually coincides with final muscle pH values from 5.8 to 6.0. The inability to completely avoid stress during pre-harvest shipment and handling of livestock has prompted investigation of strategies for lessening the effects of stress on glycogen depletion and meat tenderness. Research conducted in swine and sheep suggests that dietary magnesium (Mg) supplementation may counteract some of the detrimental effects of stress on meat quality by reducing catecholamine secretion; however, this approach has not been investigated in cattle.
The objectives of this study were to compare stress responses of heifers and steers and evaluate the efficacy of short-term dietary Mg supplementation for attenuating effects of pre-harvest stress on beef quality characteristics.
Methodology
Crossbred heifer (n = 72) and steer (n = 72) calves (herd contemporaries) were weaned at five to seven months of age, placed in a research feedlot and finished on conventional, corn-based finishing diets. When the cattle were 12 to 14 months old, animals representing each sex class were sorted into sire groups, blocked by weight (light, medium, heavy), and assigned randomly to four treatment groups: A) Control, 0% added dietary Mg, B) 0.25% added dietary Mg, C) 0.50% added dietary Mg, and D) 0.75% added dietary Mg. Supplemental Mg was provided in the form of magnesium oxide (MgO) for the final 14 days of the finishing period. The basal diet contained 0.2% Mg. Cattle comprising the three blocks were humanely harvested using conventional, commercial procedures on three different dates within a two-week period. On the day before each harvest date, animals comprising each block (steers and heifers from all four treatment groups) were commingled in a large pen to induce a stress response associated with agonistic behavior. Data recorded for each animal included: 1) behavior scores (pen behavior, chute behavior, chute exit speed), 2) physiological stress indicators (heart rate, respiration rate, rectal temperature, plasma epinephrine and norepinephrine concentrations, blood lactate concentration, muscle glucose concentration, muscle lactate concentration, glycolytic potential, 48-hour longissimus pH), 3) carcass quality indicators (carcass maturity, marbling score, longissimus L*, a*, b* color measurements, and dark cutter incidence), and 4) longissimus muscle (LM) Warner-Bratzler shear force (WBSF) measured at three, seven, 14, 21 and 28 days postmortem.
Findings
Heifers and steers exhibited distinctly different stress responses. Heifers were more excitable than steers during pre-harvest handling and exhibited a short-term (acute) stress response that resulted in increased meat toughness without a concomitant increase in muscle pH. Steers, on the other hand,
exhibited greater physical activity (sustained stress) during the mixing period and, therefore, produced carcasses with lower muscle glycogen concentrations and higher 48-hour muscle pH values compared with heifers. Steers also produced tougher strip steaks than did heifers. Within the range of muscle pH values observed in this study (5.3 to 6.1), increased 48-h muscle pH was associated with increased beef toughness in both steers and heifers. Effects of pH on LM shear force, which were most pronounced at three and seven days postmortem, diminished during postmortem aging and were no longer significant once LM steaks had been aged for 21days (see Figure). Results suggested that stress-induced toughness of strip steaks from beef carcasses with final LM pH values greater than 5.65 could be problematic unless strip loins are aged for about 18 days or longer. Supplementation of cattle with Mg increased serum Mg concentration, but had no effect on any of the physiological stress indicators or meat quality characteristics measured in this study. There was no evidence to support the premise that Mg supplementation of cattle lessens the effects of pre-harvest stress on beef quality characteristics.
Implications
Identification of cattle management systems to facilitate production of beef that consistently delivers a quality eating experience would assist in attaining industry goals of building consumer demand and adding value to cattle. This study identified distinctly different stress responses for heifers vs. steers, both of which reduced tenderness. Additionally, stress-induced increases in muscle pH significantly reduced early postmortem tenderization, thereby influencing aging requirements for beef strip loins. These results emphasize the importance of stress avoidance during pre-harvest handling and shipment of cattle.

http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/37292/PDF


http://journals.cambridge.org/...ecdd00062d1042e9273c


There is actually fairly extensive literature on the subject

How to make your beef taste like venison:

Step-by-Step Instructions

1. Begin preparation and detailed planning one year before shooting date.

2. Feed a beef steer only wild berries, slough grass, weeds, sage and tree bark.

3. About two hours before you are ready to process this fine beef, have a friend chase the steer around the pasture, corral or barnyard to get extra adrenaline into all parts of the meat.

4. Wound the steer in all the wrong places immediately after it has been chased; claim the sun got in your eyes. A good shot will tenderize the meat and get as much hair as possible into the impact area. A very good shot will include the body cavity for extra juices and flavor.

5. Drag the beef to a slough and field dress it in the slough. Make sure to get as much grass, weeds, cattails and debris in the body cavity as possible.

6. Drag the beef as least one-half mile across a summer fallow field to get plenty of dirt mixed into the hair and body cavity. Go across the furrows, not with them.

7. Load the beef on a car or truck and drive swiftly down a gravel road at least five miles, then down a paved highway. This will get maximum amounts of grit, insects and other debris imbedded in the meat. For extra flavor, do this in the rain. For added debris, face the beef backward so the wind will break off flank hairs and glue them to all exposed meat.

8. Hang the beef in the garage. At least one a day idle a vehicle for five minutes with the garage door closed. Carbon monoxide adds to the flavor.

9. After a couple weeks of this, the beef is ready to process. So break out the knives, whetstones and freezer bags.

Properly followed, the above steps insure that your beef will be mistaken for venison by even the most avid sportsman. Nor more will you need to put on that orange pumpkin outfit and slosh through the swamps or hike the ridges.

quote:

will a 30-06 kill a full-grown cow?

Darn right it will.....but in your case I'd heartily encourage you to close the gap to about ten feet and use a .22 WMR.....Many use a .22 LR but I've seen that fail....the WMR is a good bet for a brainer at ten feet.

No, no it will not.

You're not one of those "hunting guides" that wire moose antlers on cows and milk goobers $5,000 in fees are you?

Walk up to the damn thing & shoot it in the head with a 45 ACP. Done deal.

Double lung that sucker with a 100 grain 4 blade Muzzy and have zero lost meat and a dead cow in 30 seconds

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Scriptus my friend, pray explain how adrenaline "toughens" up meat and how it effects taste ?

This is going to be very very interesting indeed!

for his posterity's sake

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Adrenalin and "tough meat" ! Now there is a bit of thread off a old wives yarn

for his posterity's sake

This place is amazing!!!!!!!

Delloro asks a simple question, in which at NO POINT did he mention ANYTHING about eating the beast in question, and folks have become experts in the processing of beef carcasses.

Good Grief

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
This place is amazing!!!!!!!

Delloro asks a simple question, in which at NO POINT did he mention ANYTHING about eating the beast in question, and folks have become experts in the processing of beef carcasses.

Good Grief

You must enjoy it--you are always here.



SSR

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:
will a 30-06 with factory 180-gr cup-and-core bullets humanely kill a full-grown steer or cow, shit in the boiler room? presuming 100 yds away or so, shot in the lungs.

just curious.

Yes, a 30-06 will kill a cow.

You mention "humanely" .............that depends on where your shot placement is.

I have to ask why are you presuming 100 yards away that the shot has to be taken???

Banteng-scrub bulls drop to modern broadheads and old British .303s...


http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small28533791.JPG

http://img.photobucket.com/alb...egerryclark07038.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/al...3/pato1989/030-3.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/al...203/pato1989/089.jpg

Yup

My friend shot a wagu cow with a 22 LR

With one shot

He sold the meat for so much money

He bought a Blaser imperial with 2 barrels set went to Africa and shot 2 trophy cape with the rest of his profit

I think he has still got change left in his bank account ....

According to him if he had used his 30-06 he would be about a dollar poorer today

At first I thought this was one of those April fool's threads.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
Double lung that sucker with a 100 grain 4 blade Muzzy and have zero lost meat and a dead cow in 30 seconds

Agreed.

A bowshot through both lungs will produce the most peaceful and painless death if you are concerned about adrenaline etc.

Well, of course a well placed 30-06 round will kill a cow. While it was not said if the OP planned to eat the thing or shoot it for other reasons, at least the question has been answered regardless of the OP's motives. With that said, I suppose it would be safe to assume that he would plan on eating if it were safe to do so. No use wasting good meat at anytime.
However just what are the circumstances? A diseased or injured animal that needs to be put down? maybe a wild range cow that has become a danger? Or just maybe he's wanting to harvest a few steaks, roasts, stews and hamburger and just wants to shoot it as if in a hunt. Who cares?
The question was, "Will a 180 gr. cup and core bullet humanely kill a cow shot in the lungs from 100 yards?" Yes it will. may not be an instant drop in it's tracks DRT but the cow will die.
If the OP wants to give us the whys and wherefores, fine. If not, that's fine too altough I do admit my curiosity is well aroused.
I remember reading somewhere that cos, especially wild cows can be just as hard to put down as a cape Buffalo. IIRC it was in an article by John Wooters. The OP just might ant to be careful.
Paul B.

" A bowshot through both lungs will produce the most peaceful and painless death if you are concerned about adrenaline etc."

Absolutely not correct ! Injury induces the stress response unless the area where injury occurs is isolated from the brain.

So if you poke an arrow into something a stress response is evoked whether the animal was aware of you or not.

As to the effects of adrenaline, noradrenaline and cortisol : they have no effect on the "toughness" of the meat if anything prolonged cortisol exposure is actually catabolic and will lead to less "tough meat"

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:
How to make your beef taste like venison:

Step-by-Step Instructions

1. Begin preparation and detailed planning one year before shooting date.

2. Feed a beef steer only wild berries, slough grass, weeds, sage and tree bark.

3. About two hours before you are ready to process this fine beef, have a friend chase the steer around the pasture, corral or barnyard to get extra adrenaline into all parts of the meat.

4. Wound the steer in all the wrong places immediately after it has been chased; claim the sun got in your eyes. A good shot will tenderize the meat and get as much hair as possible into the impact area. A very good shot will include the body cavity for extra juices and flavor.

5. Drag the beef to a slough and field dress it in the slough. Make sure to get as much grass, weeds, cattails and debris in the body cavity as possible.

6. Drag the beef as least one-half mile across a summer fallow field to get plenty of dirt mixed into the hair and body cavity. Go across the furrows, not with them.

7. Load the beef on a car or truck and drive swiftly down a gravel road at least five miles, then down a paved highway. This will get maximum amounts of grit, insects and other debris imbedded in the meat. For extra flavor, do this in the rain. For added debris, face the beef backward so the wind will break off flank hairs and glue them to all exposed meat.

8. Hang the beef in the garage. At least one a day idle a vehicle for five minutes with the garage door closed. Carbon monoxide adds to the flavor.

9. After a couple weeks of this, the beef is ready to process. So break out the knives, whetstones and freezer bags.

Properly followed, the above steps insure that your beef will be mistaken for venison by even the most avid sportsman. Nor more will you need to put on that orange pumpkin outfit and slosh through the swamps or hike the ridges.

Damn, am I glad you haven't invited me to dinner.

ALF, many years ago I was involved in a pork producing venture. One of the things I learnt in this venture, was the effort that the Danes put into the slaughter of porkers. Stress, [adrenaline/lactic acid] reduced the quality to a great extent. In the case of beef, it can be hung [aged] in a cold room.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
" A bowshot through both lungs will produce the most peaceful and painless death if you are concerned about adrenaline etc."

Absolutely not correct ! Injury induces the stress response unless the area where injury occurs is isolated from the brain.

So if you poke an arrow into something a stress response is evoked whether the animal was aware of you or not.

As to the effects of adrenaline, noradrenaline and cortisol : they have no effect on the "toughness" of the meat if anything prolonged cortisol exposure is actually catabolic and will lead to less "tough meat"

Alf

Just read the damn science--it does!

Countless hours and dollars have been spent studying the subject and you just don't know what you are talking about .

You of all people should be willing to accept scientific research-----


SSR

quote:

You must enjoy it--you are always here.

Let's see about who is here all the time!

Me: Posts: 4781 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006

You: Posts: 4549 | Location: central Texas | Registered: 05 August 2010

If we go by number of posts during length of membership, you must never leave the site, but, then again, I ain't a Post Whore either!!!!!

No, I am not always here, it is just when I am here it amazes me how so many knowledgeable people can go from Zero to Assumption without the slightest bit of encouragement.

Maybe it is an animal the guy just wants to shoot. Maybe it is one that they cannot get into a pen and catch. Maybe the Sumbich wrote a bad check???????? The possibilities are endless.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Adrenalin and "tough meat" ! Now there is a bit of thread off a old wives yarn

It is actually not. In the rounds (top inside and bottom) it produces what is called Cherry beef. I've been an executive Chef, buyer and now seller for over 30 years. Cherry beef, or distraught beef does exist. Anything that you are going to roast is effected, But the Top Round(inside) is the most.
http://www.themeatsource.com/toproundroast.html
http://www.mealsforyou.com/cgi...ze?meatcutsbeef.html

It happens when the animal try's to push off its' hide legs and the rush of blood is captured.

Cross L

Thank you for the advice to go and read the science and to accept the science, that is exactly what I do ..... for a living in fact ...... every day of my life.

Did a medical degree twice over on two different continents, some 30 years apart at that and then specialization, twice over ! just recently did the Royal College of Surgeons Principles of Surgery as part of speciality recertification.

So with that in mind I was wondering where exactly in the science we have this notion that adrenaline causes muscle to be more tough ? Or that there is no stress response when trauma is induced ? I did not know this ?

Perhaps you can point me to some evidence to rectify my ignorance ... I would appreciate it.

And then there is always google..... not that everything out there is valid.

Perhaps these guys have a point ?

animal.cals.arizona.edu/bqa/PowerPoint/Beef.../Meat_Tenderness.ppt

quote:

Originally posted by delloro:
will a 30-06 with factory 180-gr cup-and-core bullets humanely kill a full-grown steer or cow, shit in the boiler room? presuming 100 yds away or so, shot in the lungs.

just curious.

Probably the best all around caliber for that type of game. Just say'n

It's because I always wondered about the adrenaline thing.

seriously, though, I was thinking of one of the many stories of novice hunters shooting cattle, having mistaken them for deer. recalling the puny ribs on the whitetails I have cleaned, and the much bigger beef ribs I see in the meat case, the question came to mind.

I have read the many discussions of the '06 being barely enough for moose, and I did not think moose were as large as cattle (never seen a moose up close).

no more, no less, nothing nefarious. I just wondered if the ol' '06 was up to a boiler room shot on a relatively massive animal.

as to the adrenaline, thoiugh, I read that bulldogs were bred to chase and hold beeves on the hoof, to get the meat was full of blood, to improve the flavor. just what I read, maybe even before the internet.

I almost forgot to add: thanks for the excellent responses, and I am not surprised to know somebody here has been there, done that.

Never shot a cow nor have I seen one wearing kevlar. A 30-06 easily kills a moose and more gun is not needed.