Is it safe to shoot hotloads with flattened primers?
Flattened primers was the only sign I got when I hotloaded the 270 Winchester. The problem was my A-Bolt never shot the 130 TSX accurately otherwise it might have been used today for mule deer and pronghorn, doubt ever get an antelope tag in Saskatchewan now.

The 7mm Remington Magnum simply has a more tolerable report. The Magnum is a boom and the 270/280/30-06 cases have a more painful report.

Question:
Which rifle fire do you prefer, 06 case or 7mm Remington Magnum?

Choices:
270-30/06 report.
7mm Remington Magnum report.

 

Primers can be an indication of pressure but not necessarily, I don't get to upset with a flat primer UNLESS you have a shiny spot or streak on the brass portion of the case head, or a black circle around the fired primer itself, at which point Id suggest cutting back a grain maybe 2 at the most....I don't get concerned unless I get a couple of pressure signs as a rule..A flat primer can mean soft primer metal, and a number of other things can be involved like what type of action, a tad of headspace, whatever, a flat primer and a sticky bolt isn't good so cut a grain or until you don't have sticky bolt. Just the tip of the ice burg and Just my take.

Primers are the least reliable sign of over pressure. My business with 270's has been slight however with 30-06's, my experience is that they don't like to be hot rodded.
The main question is why have you selected a "magic bullet" and are trying to make your rig shoot it well? Why not let the rifle tell you what bullet it prefers. And too, back off that throttle a bit and you may find the rifle and magic bullet to be more compatible.
BTW, only because you were piggy backing the 270 on the 3006 did I vote 7mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Primers can be an indication of pressure but not necessarily, I don't get to upset with a flat primer UNLESS you have a shiny spot or streak on the brass portion of the case head, or a black circle around the fired primer itself, at which point Id suggest cutting back a grain maybe 2 at the most....I don't get concerned unless I get a couple of pressure signs as a rule..A flat primer can mean soft primer metal, and a number of other things can be involved like what type of action, a tad of headspace, whatever, a flat primer and a sticky bolt isn't good so cut a grain or until you don't have sticky bolt. Just the tip of the ice burg and Just my take.

Ray,

So if I work up a hotload for the 7mm Magnum on a hot day, using temp. stable powder, if only the primer is flat, no problem?

I was getting flat primers with Winchester WLR and Federal GM210's.

Which powder did you use? H4831 (slow burn rate) worked wonders in my .270W Ran over 3000 with no signs of distress on the case or in the CCI 210's.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Which powder did you use? H4831 (slow burn rate) worked wonders in my .270W Ran over 3000 with no signs of distress on the case or in the CCI 210's.

61 grains of 4831SC

read this:

http://www.mssblog.com/2018/03...rner-pressure-signs/

and take notes if you have to.

Sorry if my polls are offensive to some. Reality is I just want to get hunting again and dislike these long snowy winters in Canada.

I want to get my firepower arsenal to a confident point of having the most affordable but more importantly effective, for the species I am going for. I don't know if I want to carry a 340 for mule deer now and growing hemp on our farm again this year, might be able to afford 2 rifles. Hemp has been our farms lifesaver last year. Money doesn't grow on trees.

well.....any body still wondering where in outer space his posts originate from?

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
well.....any body still wondering where in outer space his posts originate from?

I think maybe he must be a Russian bot with time on his hands until the next election.

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
well.....any body still wondering where in outer space his posts originate from?

Yep

Well it is still deep winter up north maybe when the weather improves.

Flat primers are no problem.

Just wrap the whole round in a layer of aluminum foil.

His posts may be odd but he isn't hurting anything!

Hip

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:
Is it safe to shoot hotloads with flattened primers?
Flattened primers was the only sign I got when I hotloaded the 270 Winchester. The problem was my A-Bolt never shot the 130 TSX accurately otherwise it might have been used today for mule deer and pronghorn, doubt ever get an antelope tag in Saskatchewan now.

The 7mm Remington Magnum simply has a more tolerable report. The Magnum is a boom and the 270/280/30-06 cases have a more painful report.

OK.......

Folks...... just say no to drugs

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:
Is it safe to shoot hotloads with flattened primers?
Flattened primers was the only sign I got when I hotloaded the 270 Winchester. The problem was my A-Bolt never shot the 130 TSX accurately otherwise it might have been used today for mule deer and pronghorn, doubt ever get an antelope tag in Saskatchewan now.

The 7mm Remington Magnum simply has a more tolerable report. The Magnum is a boom and the 270/280/30-06 cases have a more painful report.

OK.......

Folks...... just say no to drugs

He claims to grow it. Maybe he smokes it as well.

I shoot a 280 Ack Imp. All the way out to 350 meters.

I also shoot a 7mm08 out to 300 meters

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:
Is it safe to shoot hotloads with flattened primers?
Flattened primers was the only sign I got when I hotloaded the 270 Winchester. The problem was my A-Bolt never shot the 130 TSX accurately otherwise it might have been used today for mule deer and pronghorn, doubt ever get an antelope tag in Saskatchewan now.

The 7mm Remington Magnum simply has a more tolerable report. The Magnum is a boom and the 270/280/30-06 cases have a more painful report.

OK.......

Folks...... just say no to drugs

He claims to grow it. Maybe he smokes it as well.

Only way flattened primers out of a .270 correlates to the report of a 7mm Magnum can be explained IMO!

If I get flattened primers I back off the powder until they don't, especially since you stated it was already a hot load. I wear wear ear plugs or muffs because most rifles are loud, I like my hearing. The KISS principle will help you immensely.

Corey I'm cool with your questions.
but I think you need to word them a bit better.

I'm gonna say this again.
please think about it.
pick a rifle, shoot it, shoot it some more, and keep on shooting it.
all of your answers are in my last sentence.

I don't have any rifles/cartridges with the word magnum at the end of them.
I have in my time managed to scrape down some 3-400 yd deer.
a couple of them weighed 300 lbs, they died just as fast as the 200 lb ones.


I am going to give you a pat on the back for not asking about the 6.5 Creedmore in your AR-15.

I could check my records to be certain. But, as I recall, my groups opened up after I pushed past 3,050 fps (calculated - not measured electronically) at the muzzle through a 21" Douglas barrel. I also noticed that groups were a hair tighter using H4831 when compared to H4831SC.
I'll share the exact load later tonight. But, I'm certain it was several points under 60 grains.

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Which powder did you use? H4831 (slow burn rate) worked wonders in my .270W Ran over 3000 with no signs of distress on the case or in the CCI 210's.

61 grains of 4831SC

ar corey
58 grains H4831 and Nosler 130 grain solid base boat tails.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
I could check my records to be certain. But, as I recall, my groups opened up after I pushed past 3,050 fps (calculated - not measured electronically) at the muzzle through a 21" Douglas barrel. I also noticed that groups were a hair tighter using H4831 when compared to H4831SC.
I'll share the exact load later tonight. But, I'm certain it was several points under 60 grains.

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Which powder did you use? H4831 (slow burn rate) worked wonders in my .270W Ran over 3000 with no signs of distress on the case or in the CCI 210's.

61 grains of 4831SC

Compressed load around 60 grains. I have had better accuracy with the standard 4831 as well. Hotload of 61 grains had to use SC version because of extra density in a compressed load.

Nuts. What am I supposed to do with all this duct tape?

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
Flat primers are no problem.

Just wrap the whole round in a layer of aluminum foil.

Based on your post I'd say your Ok, but you started your reply with Knowing you had a hot load, that's worth some thought, if you know its hot then cut it a grain, when in doubt cut it out! but never suck it up buttercup that will put and eye out....

flat primers "with one or more of the following) an extractor mark on the brass head, blacking around the flat primer, case head expansion, a streak on the case head caused by opening the bolt, even a slightly sticky bolt is time to cut back a grain and try it, maybe another grain, never know...We fly by the seat of our pants handloading and experience is your best champion..Always use a powder that at least fills the case to the shoulder junction, use slow burning powder where possible and you will be safe with perhaps incidents but nothing you can't live with!!

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:


read this:

http://www.mssblog.com/2018/03...rner-pressure-signs/

and take notes if you have to.

That link is useful. Thanks. The only thing I didn't see was reference to different primers being of different hardness.

I liked what he said about an enlarged firing pin opening acting like a "cookie cutter" in facilitating primer flow. I believe my Savage FCV has such a malady, and I get flow on all my loads.

But here's the catcher.

I've been working my way through CCI primers, and, in an effort to get a bit more velocity from one of my loads, I upped the charge from 0.5 grains under max (no indication of elevated pressure) to right at max. I got pierced primers, so stopped shooting this ammo and broke it down. (In passing, when I primed these pierced-primer cases after this, the primer pockets were nice and tight.)

I saw no other indication of excessive pressure and in looking around I read that CCI primers tend to be "soft" and can pierce given a too-large firing pin hole (like described at the link you provided). The guy who wrote that suggested using harder primers, like Tulas, would cure the problem.

So I loaded up 10 rounds, identical in all ways to the ones with pierced CCI primers: but I loaded 5 with Tula and 5 with Federal Match primers. The Tulas looked healthy but for a flow of the sort I'm used to (with lighter loads using CCI). The Fed Match looked healthy with barely any flow.

JFWIW

60 grs. of todays H4831 is a good load in a 30-06, depending on the brass, in a Rem case it may push bullets out a bit over night, so check on that...I use 62 grs of H-4831 of OLD MILSURP 4831 and get more velocity and less pressure than any of todays powders (Jack O'Connor used this stuff in his 270 and 30-06 I copied his loads, have for years) I have never used 4831SC. Something that has not been mentioned is you cannot get enough H4831 in a 30-06 or 270 case to cause any damage to the gun or you, probably the same for IMR-4831 but that would cause higher pressure.

Ive yet to see a need for a 7 mag. so have not used it but a couple of times, although its a good caliber for sure.

Which report do I prefer?

I wear earplugs.

Ray

When was the last time you chronographed your loads using old MILSURP 4831?

About 20 years ago the late Din Collings here in NZ got a keg of the old milsurp powder. It smelled fine but it was way too slow in my 280 AI & 6.5X55Swed. I went 2 grains above book max and still got very low velocities - 250 fps below book figures IIRC.

The powder had very long grains and did not compact in the case very well.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
60 grs. of todays H4831 is a good load in a 30-06, depending on the brass, in a Rem case it may push bullets out a bit over night, so check on that...I use 62 grs of H-4831 of OLD MILSURP 4831 and get more velocity and less pressure than any of todays powders (Jack O'Connor used this stuff in his 270 and 30-06 I copied his loads, have for years) I have never used 4831SC. Something that has not been mentioned is you cannot get enough H4831 in a 30-06 or 270 case to cause any damage to the gun or you, probably the same for IMR-4831 but that would cause higher pressure.

Ive yet to see a need for a 7 mag. so have not used it but a couple of times, although its a good caliber for sure.

Remind me to never shoot at a range where you are “testing loads”

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:
His posts may be odd but he isn't hurting anything!

Hip

Agree with you. In fact, his post could help somebody else who may be learning how to reload.

I agree with Ray A on signs of pressure; a sticky bolt is my number 2. My fav is simply how fast the primers seat with no pressure. A good load allows you to load a lot more than 4-5 times.

Well you guys need to remember that he is from Saskatchewan, so he is a "Gapper".

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by ar corey:
Is it safe to shoot hotloads with flattened primers?
Flattened primers was the only sign I got when I hotloaded the 270 Winchester. The problem was my A-Bolt never shot the 130 TSX accurately otherwise it might have been used today for mule deer and pronghorn, doubt ever get an antelope tag in Saskatchewan now.

The 7mm Remington Magnum simply has a more tolerable report. The Magnum is a boom and the 270/280/30-06 cases have a more painful report.

OK.......

Folks...... just say no to drugs

Hemp doesn't have any THC, not a drug.

Bottom line is you cannot get enough 4831 or 4350, IMR or H for that matter to damage a good rifle..Ive tested that many times, got some warm loads but nothing that bothered me or caused me any problem at all shooting in the hot summer of South west texas..even cooked the rifles on the hot hood of my pickup..This is fact not fiction or guess and by gosh with loads that were compacted to bricks! Not suggesting anyone do this as I did it for myself only..

Naki,
I still have 40 pounds of the old surplus 4831 powder from an original stainless steel 150 pound container in a wood crate from the US Army..I get about 3200 give or take 25 FPS with 62 grs. in most .270s, and 30-06s the same as the late Jack O'Connor did..It has been well stored and its shiny black and no smell...when powder gets reddish its close to bad or plumb bad or if the smell gets to acidy..