I've used 150 gr ballistic tips for several years on everything with great results. This year in Co I hit a decent 5x6 Bull at 250 yards through the back of the lungs angling toward opposite shoulder. Bullet exploded on ribs buww went 600 yards, luckilly spraying blood at every breath in the snow. Cow at very close range (11 yards) through back of shoulder and into lungs, she dropped at 70 yards.........No Blood at all.

Hard to complain about 2 dead elk (have killed lots of deer and elk with these bullets) but I'd rather recover the game by trailing and anchor them with broken shoulders - not the NBT's stregnth. I'll still use them on local deer until I've used them up but will be looking for a new bullet before going after elk again. They shoot so will in my 7mm Rem Mag and kill deer so quickly I have resisted change for years.

I have never seen a BT explode on any animal especially at 250 yards away. A sierra yes definately, but never seen a Nosler. Either way if you lost confidence use the accubond. Riidge runner (in the Nosler forum) uses the 160 Accubonds at 3500 fps from his 7mm AM. He recently did a test where he recovered one at 3500 fps impact velocity. Looks great.

+1 for POP's post.

Neither had I seen something like that in dozens of animals shot with my very favorite Nosler Ballistic tips, mine aren't anywhere near 3,500 FPS either. I have used Accubond on an elk and it worked fine, but I wasn't happy with the results on 2 deer shot by them. Partitions were OK on both but don't shoot that well out of my rifle.

My theory with the BT's is that I'd rather put a lesser bullet exactly where I aimed than something less with a stouter premium bullet. After this year I'll likely try Barnes as a start for next elk season - am open to suggestions.

I use the AB's for hunting and the BT's for paper. Both seat to the same point and shoot to the same POA>

I don't like Barnes but thats me. To much copper.

In Spain I use for everything in my 338 Winchester Magnum the munción Winchester Power Point bullet 200 grains.

Regards,

Oscar.

i'd like to hear alittle more about the nosler BT's.... 10 yrs. ago i shot 2 large does at about 160yds. with my 6.5x.270 improved. the bullets were 120 gr. the first, a shot right between the lookers, obviously bang-flip(not flop),she busted me and was looking right at me when i shot. the other, took off when i shot and i got a typical quartering away chest shot at her when she stopped to look back at what just happened. it went about 20 yrds and pulled the pin. so outwardly, they did thier job perfectly, as the bottom line goes. but, what alarmed me was the second deer's lungs were totaly shredded, they looked like cheesecloth when i opened her up. the bullet obviously completely exploded on contact and made no exit wound. ya, the deer was dead right there, no question, but i really didn't like the fact that it blew up on a just a deer. i like the BT's, the 120's shoot good in that gun, but i haven't used any since. is/was there a problem with them (at the time) and did they fix it if there was?

I had one in 308 Win explode shot from 20" barrel sako, 165 grain into whitetail. will never use them again

I've seen an earlier version of the 180 out of a 30-06 do two contradicting things. One penetrated side to side through the lungs of a nice 5x5 elk and looked like it worked like a nosler. Couple of days later I saw one break up on the shoulder bone of a smaller deer and not get beyond that.
I know they've toughened them up some since those days. But I don't know if they made all the 308 bt's tougher or just the 180/165 class or what.
Anyway you look at it I just wouldn't trust a 150 plastic tip/lead bullet at anything bigger than a deer. Mono bullet yes....bt...not my choice.

It seems I am a sucker for the Ballistic Tip discussions. What are you guys looking for? If a critter gets hit and drops within 50 yds, who needs an exit? The one that ran 600yds, I have no explaination for. I shoot a lot of BT'S, but I limit my choice of bullet to the bullet that shoots best in a particular rifle. I use them in 2, 270's, one a Model 70, the other a Sendero. They shoot so well,that for 3 shots, at least in the Sendero, I'll match it against any of my heavy barrel target 22's. The other is a 35 Whelen. We have recovered several bullets out of elk, shot with 225 BT's in the Whelen, and they all weighed over 206 grains. I use them in 22's and 243's as well, but I consider these varmint loads/rifles. Never lost a critter using BT'S, and never have experienced a lot of meat destruction either.

By the way, I am driving the 130 Grain Ballistic Tip over 3250, out of the Sendero,.


Jerry

It is hard to beat a Nosler Partition.

In a 7 Mag I would use the 160gr, or the 175 if hunting where my shots would be under 250 yards or so.

Just use a Partition or, better yet, a North Fork.
Bear in Fairbanks

Just about every cup and core bullet ever made has a story or ten about the one time out of many that something went wrong. I think the BT is superior than most of it's cup and core bretheren in that regard.

Just when you think you have something figured out the exact opposite happens. A few years ago I was hunting the Fish Lake country in central Utah. Most shots out in the low lands part of the area were 300 yards some as far as you dared shoot. I had loaded both my .270s with an O'Connor load of H4831 under a 130 grain ballistic tip. I got great accuracy at the range. Superb accuracy is a better description. Luck would have it that my son carrying the single shot found a littel buck in the aspens at 25 yards max. quartering away shot, the bullet blew up on the ribs, didn't get inside. Lucky for us the impact knocked the little buck down so my son was able to finish the job. I've been a Barnes fan ever since. I get accuracy and I know if I blow the petals off with high impact velocity, the rest of the bullet shank is still going through. I still use ballistic tips in the 223 and the 22 250 they are great varmint bullets. DW

I really like tipped bullets and have shot ton of BT's, but when my Dad lost a deer and my brother almost did, I switched to Accubonds. If you read the descriptions for both, the BT is a "rapid expansion" bullet, and the AB is a "controlled expansion" bullet.

Actually, I reload and shoot more Rem Corelokt bullets than any thing else for no other reason than price, and I have killed quite a few head of game and don't think they can distinguish between "premium" bullets and "non-premium" bullets.

I use BT's in my 300 WM for moose and Elk and have had no issues. Like alot of you I find they shoot so well in my Browning I feel confindant everytime I put an animal in the scope. I think like everything you buy you can just get a lemon every now and again. The other thought I had was, was there anything between you and the elk ie willows? I have seen bullets prematurely expand and then tumble once striking the animal.

I gave up on the Partitions due to their penciling through a couple of big bucks at 200-250 yards out of a hot 270. I've loved the NBT in a 300 Mag 180g for elk but was told by Nosler technician that the company line is Partitions for elk; then he said that for long distance shooting at elk unofficially, the NBT should work out just fine. Just don't call him if you shoot an elk at 50 yards in the shoulder and complain about penetration.

I followed his advance, stayed behind the should joint and always seemed to be shooting the elk at long distance with the NBT out of the 300 Win Mag. My daughter in law now has the 270 and has taken 3 Montana elk with 130g with shots from 40-285 yards but all behind the shoulder and into the ribs. Tracking distances were from 5-85 yards.

Stay behind the shoulder joint with the NBT and they should work out from our experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
It seems I am a sucker for the Ballistic Tip discussions. What are you guys looking for? If a critter gets hit and drops within 50 yds, who needs an exit? The one that ran 600yds, I have no explaination for. I shoot a lot of BT'S, but I limit my choice of bullet to the bullet that shoots best in a particular rifle. I use them in 2, 270's, one a Model 70, the other a Sendero. They shoot so well,that for 3 shots, at least in the Sendero, I'll match it against any of my heavy barrel target 22's. The other is a 35 Whelen. We have recovered several bullets out of elk, shot with 225 BT's in the Whelen, and they all weighed over 206 grains. I use them in 22's and 243's as well, but I consider these varmint loads/rifles. Never lost a critter using BT'S, and never have experienced a lot of meat destruction either.

By the way, I am driving the 130 Grain Ballistic Tip over 3250, out of the Sendero,.

Jerry

Jerry, you know that the NBT in the heavier Whelen is NOT the same as a 150gr 308, apples & oranges my friend. In my own tests, I test every bullet before hunting w/ it, the NBT frags above impact vel of 2700fps or so, at least in 7mm, 308 & 6.5. I would not choose one for IV above 2600-2700fps. I want my bullets, even on deer, to reach vitals from any reasonable angle, rib or shoulder or whatever. The NP is plenty accurate enough for my use & if not the NAB certainly will be.

Ballistic Tips are bullets that do not want to be shot faster than about 2700 fps MV... otherwise on impact at closer ranges they will act exactly like their smaller varmint cousins...

for impact velocities of 2400 fps down to about 1600 fps, a ballistic tip will actually outpenetrate a partition frequently...

if one exploded at 250 yds on a shoulder, I'd have to ask what was the weight of the bullet you were using, & what was your MV at?

I'm guessing you were trying to rocket a 120 grain ballistic tip out of a 7 Mag at 3500 to 3600 fps

I'll be more specific - 7mm Rem Mag, 150 grain new production (this year) Nolser Ballistic tip approx 3100 fps 62.3 gr of IMR 4350. Have used this load for more than 10 years many deer DRT, Big elk 800+lb bull dead with 3 through lungs on the run at 250-300 in the past.

Shot on this bull quatering away at 250 through the rear of the lungs - it was through the crook of a small tree, but don't think and didn't see/hear evidence of early bullet twig contact, but it is possible. two ribs on close side broken entry wound about the size of your palm.

The cow at 11 yards did hit shoulder before lungs but performed perfectly - all that bothered me about that is that if she had gone out of site I might have lost her in the thick woods even with snow since there was not a drop of blood.

Those Ballistic Tip bullets rune a lot of meat.

It is difficult not to comment on bullet performance.

I was a fan of the original Barnes X bullet and used it with devastating results on many safaris in Africa. I moly coated them. They were not too accurate but effective.

The Barnes TSX tipped or regular are hard to beat. Less fouling, way more accurate and totally effective. Bagged an elk this year in Idaho with a 210 gr TSX in a 338 Win mag. It was a Texas heart shot and the bull dropped. (That is not a bad place if you stay one inch above the anus directly in the midline as you can take out spine, aorta and vena cava which is what this TSX bullet did.

I will only use the TSX hunting (except in my 470 Double where I have found the Woodleigh bullets to be effective but not as devestating). I have used the old Swift bullets on Cape buffalo as well and they are ok but the X bullets and their like do more damage which is what one is looking for in dropping a big animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Bear in Fairbanks:
Just use a Partition or, better yet, a North Fork.
Bear in Fairbanks

..yep.

Not long ago, I hit a normal sized blacktail in the shoulder at about 75 yds with a 139 grain Hornady SP out of a 7 x 57....

broke the shoulder and evidently just parts of it penetrated into the lungs.. the bullet blowing up...

I just watched the deer.. it laid down on the spot and started panting...

so instead of shooting again, I watched to see what occured.. it took about 10 to 12 minutes before it just finally had its head fall over and died..

it was evident, that the bullet had failed...
the animal just laying down on the spot.. I figured it was going into shock..

face it, bullets fail.. even the premium ones..

but one failing on you, your reaction shouldn't be writing off the entire big picture, especially if it has performed well for you in the past..

it is not always a perfect world..even tho we have the luxury of a lot of alternatives.. doesn't mean whatever bullet ever failed us makes the entire line up bad..

If only we had forums where hunters could post their experiences over many years of hunting and thousands of kills with these various bullets so each hunter wouldn't have to re-live losing game over and over AND OVER again. Oh wait we do... Now if only people would LISTEN!

I gave up on NBTs about 15 years ago because of unpredictable performance on whitetails and feral pigs... One bullet would pencil completely through and never open up, the next one completely explode and damage everything in sight. I now shoot Speer GS or Nosler SBs for hogs and whitetails.

The BT is reccommended by Nosler as a deer bullet. I quit using them when I had a 130gr give up on a does shoulder at around 100yds.
Been using the 225gr & 250 gr .338 Accubond on elk for several years now. Great bullet. Going to try the 150 gr AB 30 cal in my 06 this deer season, may know next Sat how they perform.

Phil

To each their own as far as bullet selection, as long as it gets the job done quickly and cleanly. However, I know how it is when some little "thin" happens and it just ruins your confidence in a product, no matter how many times it worked for you in the past. Besides, testing new bullets is fun!

I agree with a lot of folks here, try the Accubond, it should shoot and load very similar if not almost identical to your NBT...but have more strength for the heavy critters. One of my hunting partners yesterday had fantastic results with the Hornady InterBond...another one worth trying out, cheaper then the NAB's

FWIW - I choose FailSafe bullets for elk, stocked up on em when they closed out.

Fredj338:

You chose to make reference to the part of my post that mentions the 35 Whelen. What about the other part, where I talk about the 270?

I don't use BT'S in 30 cal, one reason, I don't shoot a lot of 30 cal on game. Others in my group shoot 150 & 180 BT'S in their 30's, and are very happy with their performance on deer.

As I said, no problems with BT'S on game in the rifles I shoot!!

Jerry

I don’t recover many bullets but I haven’t shot hundreds of big game animals either.

Here are 2 I have recovered from elk. Left to right. 7mm 160 gr. Sierra HPBT. It hit the back of the inside shoulder. The next one is a Nosler Ballistic Tip 7mm 150 gr. It hit the back of the inside shoulder too.

The animals are dead. The question is:

Did the bullets fail?

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I don’t recover many bullets but I haven’t shot hundreds of big game animals either.

Here are 2 I have recovered from elk. Left to right. 7mm 160 gr. Sierra HPBT. It hit the back of the inside shoulder. The next one is a Nosler Ballistic Tip 7mm 150 gr. It hit the back of the inside shoulder too.

The animals are dead. The question is:

Did the bullets fail?

Suit yourself, but I wouldn't question it until the animal didn't die.

Here's a .308/180 NP from this years elk... 71% weight retention. MV 2,985, hit elk pretty far back and plowed through about three feet of elk and came to rest under the hide forward of the shoulder on the off side. On bigger Big Game, Partitions are my favorite bullet.

I have given up on .277-.284 bullets that fraction and destroy. My .270 and 7mm Rem. Mag are sold.

In my opinion the solution is increasing the frontal area to a .338 bullet and using a copper Barnes TTSX that stays intact. After this bullet expands the .338 petals punch a nice lethal sized wound channel without exploding and will almost always go right through.

use partitions. they been effectively and efficiently killing stuff since 1948.

Cobra:
It's all about shot placment. I have given my opinion on BT'S. I also shoot Partitions in certain rifles, some guys don't like them because the almost always pass thru. But 8 dead elk with the 30-06 and Partitions, never had to chase any, says it all. Most Barnes Coppers don't group well in any of my rifles, but I really like them in a Sabot in my black powder rifle. Quite the elk killer! Shot an elk with a Speer hot core 250,35 cal, and the recovered bullet only weighed 56 grains, I don't care, dead elk! Sierra Spitzers have the rep of coming apart, but I have had great success with them also. To stay in or exit,that is the question, with a well placed shot, it dosen't make a hoot!! I have tried a lot of bullets, in a lot of different cals, and with the exception of the SST, which I don't care for because in my stuff they don't group, I have no complaints about any of them on game.

Jerry

ps I guess me and my bunch of buddies can place our shots!

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Here's a .308/180 NP from this years elk... 71% weight retention. MV 2,985, hit elk pretty far back and plowed through about three feet of elk and came to rest under the hide forward of the shoulder on the off side. On bigger Big Game, Partitions are my favorite bullet.

A Nosler Partition is never a wrong choice, IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Eden:
Fredj338:

You chose to make reference to the part of my post that mentions the 35 Whelen. What about the other part, where I talk about the 270?

I don't use BT'S in 30 cal, one reason, I don't shoot a lot of 30 cal on game. Others in my group shoot 150 & 180 BT'S in their 30's, and are very happy with their performance on deer.

As I said, no problems with BT'S on game in the rifles I shoot!!

Jerry

In your previous post you only mention they shot well in the 270 & posted how well the heavy NBT worked on game. If the NBT were such a great bullet choice for across the broad range of hunting, why are there so many stories of bullet break-up & fragmentation on even light bones? Because the bullet was/is designed for longer range shooting. If you just keep in mind that the bullet starts to come apart above 2700fps IV, are willing to wait for a perfect broadside, then the NBT will work for you. If you shoot a magnum or push the bullet faster or shoot closer or want to be able to shoot from any reasonable angle (not THS) then something a bit more stout will perform better for you. The NP is a better all round bullet for me in just about any caliber I hunt w/. I save the NBT for punching paper or varmints, JMO.

The animals are dead. The question is:
I would say yes, because the bullet qould not likely have done well striking bone or a hard 1/4ing shot. Just because you get lucky & the animal dies & is recovered doesn't mean the bullet performed well, adequate would be a generous description.

I have seen Nosler BTs come apart several times. Each time there was nothing left but the copper jacket. I use a 6X5 round hay bale as a 200 yard backstop. After several thousand rounds, many of the bullets will pentrate all of the way through the bale and stop on a piece of 1/2" conveyor belt that is draped on the far side. I have found 7MM Nosler BTs on the far side, again just the copper jacket. I personally will not use the Ballistic Tips or any other plastic tipped bullet for any game other than varmints or shooting paper. The same goes for any Sierra bullet. I personally have had and seen many Sierra bullets come apart. I do believe that impact velocity does have alot to do with the fore mentioned bullets but that is not that easy to control when hunting ranges from 40 to 350 yards. Case in point, I just shot a 155 lb. (field dressed) 8 pt. management deer last week in the neck. I used a 300 WSM with handloaded 180 gr. Rem. CoreLok bullets with a muzzle velocity of 3040 fps. avg. The deer was appox. 60 yards away. The bullet entered the neck where I aimed and completely dissintegrated. But the mass of the fragments left a wound channel through the neck down to the top of shoulder on the far side with NO exit wound. I have never seen a Rem. Corelok bullet do this. I believe it was because of the 3000 fps. velocity and the closeness of the deer. Yet if that same shot would have been 200 yards, I think the bullet would have behaved and stayed together. I have shot over 15 South Texas Whitetails in the neck with Rem. Coreloks, the old true Winchester Silvertips and Hornady Interlocks and not a single one has ever completely gone through the neck that I can recall.

I've killed piles of big game animals with the 150 NBT from a 7rm. From large bodied deer to huge Russian boar, they worked great every single time. Only had 2 stay in the animal and both were bone hits and made it to the far side. Saying NBTs don't work for medium big game is pure hog wash. I wouldn't use them for larger game, they simply arent designed for it nor are other cnc bullets. Heavy for cal NBTs also work well for medium game in various other carts such as the 270 and 25-06.

All bullets can fail, I've seen NPTs fail miserably. I've seen quite a few diff bullets give questionable performance, we even see post every year of the TSX failing on game. I've also seen quite a few cup-n-cores of various manufacture fragment on entry, is nothing out of the norm. The NBT is just as good as any CNC out there, if you need more, use a premium.

Reloader