The predecessor to the bow & arrow. Anyone ever use one? I'm going to make one & give it a try. They can throw a dart 150 yards. They were used to kill all manner of large prehistoric wild beast I don't see why it wouldn't work on the puny game species we have today.

IIRC hunting deer with a spear is now legal in PA ! The Atlatl does improve the power of the spear significantly {Spear Improved cartridge !] Give it a try .

They have power and speed. Accuracy is where things get tough.
They also require big obvious movements compared to a bow and arrow.

With practice I'd say a hunting range of about 30 yards is quite achievable. The key word is "practice". I've been teaching atlatls for close to 20 years and to me it is not like a bicycle or a well fitted bow, each year it is almost like starting over! However, after a couple weeks of daily practice you can hit a deer target in the vitals most every time at about 100 feet.





These are pictures from a class (I have an outdoor ed school that we teach week long programs in early technologies), unfortunately the kids closest to the camera are just throwing the spears but all the kids further down the line have atlatls.

A couple things-

The style that I prefer is flat with a slight trough and about 7/8" wide. The extra width is very helpful in supporting the spear. I'm too lazy to go measure one right now but I think 16" is a good length to start with. You can use leather or cord for the finger loops, I've made them with cotton and nylon and they all work the same. Nylon holds up best but aesthetically looks like crap so I don't ever use it but if I had to make an atlatl and use it to live in the wilds with it would have nylon strap finger loops. Whatever you do, glue the material to the handle with a generous amount of carpenters glue otherwise they work loose eventually.

The spears I like to make out of cane or bamboo. The point is then attached to a 4"-5" long piece of hardwood shaft and this foreshaft is then attached to the front of the spear. If you are not clear how this is done let me know and I'd be glad to make one and post the pictures of the process here.

Any other questions, feel free to ask.

Mark

The Spanish Conquistadors feared the Atlatl. It was reported they could penetrate their armor at 100 yards. I've seen Mastodon femurs with clovis projectiles embedded 3" deep.
LDK

Missouri has made the atlatl a legal hunting weapon in the firearms season, and for taking fish species.

I've never thrown one, but they are very interesting.

The thing about them is you don't have to move at all until the very last second. A bow has to be drawn first, so maybe there's less movement from the atlatl. I'd love to try it out, especially on a mastadon!

Mark, You have a fair amount of experience in this area.
What would you say is an average 10 shot group size at 20 yards of an average, experienced shooter.

here is a 7 yr old in PA g-whacking a doe with his handy atlatl...

old school...

The 7 year old is in a game farm of some sort.

There is no way a wild Va white tail would fall for that.

check this one out.

Elephant vs the whole damn tribe!

Why does that video remind me of opening day of deer season?

Frank4570-

If you are not moving I'd expect paper plate-ish accuracy at 20 yards, we have one of those cube targets we shoot at and I am happy if I hit that at 40-50 feet. (all the spears are blunts BTW so they don't stick into anything, they just hit it) Now here is my disclaimer- I put almost no "hard" effort in getting my spears uniform, as compared to the work involved getting arrows uniform, so if someone put a lot of effort into both the equipment and required practice it could be closed up quite a bit.

quote:

The 7 year old is in a game farm of some sort.

There is no way a wild Va white tail would fall for that.

good thing he was hunting in PA, those deer aren't as bright as those virginia deer

Doug: Those atlatls are a lot of fun. I used to throw often and got to where I could hit a cardboard rabbit tacked to my straw bales four out of five times at about 40 feet. I never took the time to make a matched set of full-sized darts however. I have played with river cane shafts fitted with fire-hardened hazel "feet" and would sure hate to be on the receiving end of one. My best shafts are made of red osier dogwood. My favorite atlatls are of juniper or hazel. Google Paleo Planet for ground zero on atlatls.

Just an " FYI "..

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.c...ral-Discussion-Forum

PAPI

PAPI that is a awesome link. Thank you.

You should " Checkout " the other site " Primitive Tech Forum ..
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/

I've been to a few of the " Pasadena Gatherings ", in the past !!
" GREAT GROUP " !!

One of the members (PaleoAleo) did some work (Tech Advise/ Film Demo)for the " National Geographic " & " History Channel, Weapons Tech " ( Tactical to Practical/ Warrior Series ).

Here's another cool link;
http://military.discovery.com/...orts-the-atlatl.html

PAPI

Great links!

Hi everyone,

I've purchased a few items from this " link ".. mainly, for use as an examples: " Guide / Copy " .

http://www.occpaleo.com/home.html

I believe he works at a very prominent Museum, and has access to many original historical objects !!

PAPI

Thats a great site PAPI. Thanks for the link!

Mark, I would love to see some detailed photos of the entire process on how to make an atlatl and 'darts' for it!

Duckear,

I will be doing another class in the middle of October and I'll take a set of pictures start to finish for you, if that timeframe is OK? If you are wanting to make something sooner let me know and I'll see what I can dig up for you but it would just be bits and pieces that way.

Mark I would really apptricate seeing those photos posted here also. I tried to make one but it sucked.

They had a meeting of amateur archeologists in the Harrisburg, Pa area and some of the home made atlatls. One of the darts had a steel point and the guy thru it through a car door. Would be good for an elephant..

Mike

the atlatrl is much harder to kill deer with than a bow is. The bow only requires the string to be drawn slowly to the face, while the atlatl requires a massive, fast, total arm movement...not tolerated by wild whitetail deer too well.

troy

Well,things to consider..

1. Our ancestors, knowing nothing else to Hunt with, would eventually become very proficient using an " Atlatl ", to feed himself.

2. The " DART " is considerably " Longer & Heavier " (than most wood Arrows) with a " Larger Bone or Flint Points ", which helps in penetrations.

PaleoAleo, doesn't seem to be straining himself.. Looks very smooth & fluid ,& almost effortless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...re=player_embedded#!

PAPI

I wonder how well bamboo would do as a dart shaft material???

Cheers, John

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
I wonder how well bamboo would do as a dart shaft material???

Cheers, John

I know somebody who uses river cane for his arrows. He says it is way better than any other material. I'm sure it would also make a superior atlatl shaft. Flexible, light, durable, strong.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:

quote:

Originally posted by Phatman:
I wonder how well bamboo would do as a dart shaft material???

Cheers, John

I know somebody who uses river cane for his arrows. He says it is way better than any other material. I'm sure it would also make a superior atlatl shaft. Flexible, light, durable, strong.

I am sure alum and carbon shafts beat any natural material.

I misspoke. I meant to say that bamboo is better than other natural materials.

I picked up a piece of bamboo today to make into an atlatl dart. I've been watching the paleoplanet videos on building one. Not a perfect piece but it will work.

I just talked to a guy who killed a moose with one of these things. I might use some of his ideas when I build mine.

Frank, was that Fiddler on the Paleoplanet site? He is a wealth of information.
Tom Mills, aka Paleoaleo, makes most of his darts from Arundo donax, an invasive reed species here on the West Coast.
Things I dislike about bamboo and river cane are: often not enough weight forward vs. aft; and all those nodes need attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Frank, was that Fiddler on the Paleoplanet site? He is a wealth of information.
Tom Mills, aka Paleoaleo, makes most of his darts from Arundo donax, an invasive reed species here on the West Coast.
Things I dislike about bamboo and river cane are: often not enough weight forward vs. aft; and all those nodes need attention.

YES IT WAS!
I was kind of skeptical about is 2 piece design till he said he killed a moose with it. That's plenty good enough for me. I'll pick up dowels from Lowes today, as per his instructions. Then I'll see what I can do with a tulip poplar shoot.
I got a piece of bamboo, but it tapers too fast, at least it seems too fast to me.

I saw some where that a detaching point allowed better performance on game if the point was built to let the blood flow though it.
It also allowed you to use just one shaft, over and over again.

At least that is what I was told.

Cheers, John

quote:

I saw some where that a detaching point allowed better performance on game if the point was built to let the blood flow though it.
It also allowed you to use just one shaft, over and over again.

Replica: http://cart.occpaleo.com/atlat...henticmaterials.aspx

Lft: Obsidian Point / Rt: My attempt to replicate, with a Cast Metal Point ( Arrow Head ).


That's also my understanding (Researched Info) ,,,, very similar to what we do today,with reloading our brass. It saved on investment in " Time / Labor & Materials,i.e; Locating Suitable Materials / Straightening Shafts / Fletching Shafts.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...rU_A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...eFdQ&feature=related

PAPI

I think in some areas the shaft would be the hardest thing to produce. I've looked pretty extensivly in Alberta and can't find anything that's 1/2"-3/4" in diameter and 5 or 6 feet long. I assume paleo man must have gotten something decent and scraped it down. That's a lotta work.

I wonder if the other alternative would be to use a heavy spear with an atlatl and just get closer?

All the focus on the spear. Can someone educate me on the Atlatl? Where can I go to find out info. Is it like a Woomera?
Peter

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/forums/24

You have to scroll about halfway down to get to the new discussions. But this will set you up.

Same basic thing as a Woomera.