Lorenzo -

I just did a search for your Cimmarons....Very good looking dogs. I've not seen one here in the States. They remind ne of the Perro de Presa Canario. which I have seen many fine dogs here.

Good points on the hunt. I would agree about holding the dogs back. Here in the states many run "baydogs" Hounds or Curs to locate a boar while holding the catchdog(s) Bulldog or Pitbull back until the boar is found and bayed.

I will trust Juan's knowledge of his own dogs for the hunt. I trust his experience.

I also agree only Juan & I should go in close for the kill.

"but with all the adrenalin pumping it's not sure he will go down, and here is were comes the good part (the one of the mess"...this is the interesting part. In that close there must be a tremendous would channel such as would be created by a large blade edge admistered with great force. Even so the Buff will still have enough energy to be extremly dangerous.

So a bullet must go into the spine or brain, for the safety of all.

:

Of cousre all of this is just discussion from behind comfort of the computer screen...For Now.

I hope to join Juan in January of '06

posted 20 April 2005 21:54
quote:
Do you have something of value to leave me?


Even if it isn't possible to make a spear kill. Being that close to water buff and killing it with a large bore handgun would still be very exciting.

I've heard a single dogs throwing a steer. So with fine & experience hog hunter's like Juan's Dogos I feel this CAN be done.

"SISSY!"......wildpork.

I believe if you attach a red banner to the spear. let it hang down almost to the ground and try to get close to the buffalo with out him seeing you. If that is possible maybe....maybe you can sink the blade into the heart in a quartering forward angle. The blood will come out fast and with the adrenaline of the buffalo it will come out even faster. It will go down in 2-3 seconds(maybe).
If the buffalo turns and sees you. He will charge! Thats when the knife comes in. Let the buffalo get all the way to the banner and sidestep him, with the banner in his face and sink the knife in as he passes you (you will have enough adrenaline to push the knife right out the other side!

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Kongoni:
I also agree only Juan & I should go in close for the kill.

And a camera man to catch it all so we can see the action as it happens.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

quote:

Originally posted by Boss Kongoni:
I also agree only Juan & I should go in close for the kill.

And a camera man to catch it all so we can see the action as it happens.

I want all who are going spear hunting for Old George to please drop by our insurance office and i will pay the premiums and you will sign me as your sole beny. I will leave you with his to think on; Four hunters and their P.H. were hunting Old George, they were armed with 2 .460 Wbys, 1 .470 double and the P.H. had his .500 double.They had flipped for first rights that morning at breakfast and John won the toss. About 10-ish they found a bacholer group that had two good bulls in it. Ian said take the old boy on the left, John hit him with his Wby. behind his front shoulder 500 grains of bullet packing about 8000 ft. lbs of muzzle energy. The Buff fell down and then got up wheeled around and made eye contact. He was about 30 yds from us at that time. 20 yards later he was hit three more times 2 .460's ,1 .470 and Ian held his fire.I left go the left and last barrel at the same time Ian fired his first .500 round and a eye blink later the second .500 sold hit the old boy. The Buff had taken a total of about 44,000 ft. pounds of energy within 10 yards and was stoped 6 paces from us. After inspecting the carcuss we found he was hit through the heart twice, his left shoulder was broken, and his lungs were in shreds, Ians last round found his brain. Let me know how you make out with your spear thing. Charlie

Charlie - They told Columbus he'd fall of the edge of the Earth too.

Boss Kongoni, good luck Charlie

Charlie,
I was the first one to ask for their belongings once their departure from in this world

L

O.K. I've been looking at spearhead designs.

How deep is a water buffalos heart in his chest cavity from the side? I'd think I'd need a spear head long enough to go through the heart.

I have a friend that has bowhunted bison here in the states, he tells me that the bison heart is about 8-9" in diameter. and the chest cavity is about 28" in diameter. So the spear would need 18" of penitration?

Boss....If you do it. I'll do it too. July?

Boss...I couldn't figure out how to reply to your message.
Understood. I have experienced the same.
Good luck, I'll look forward to your future posts.

Well. I didn't mean to kill the thread.
The cold steel boar spear has a very long blade on it. I think its about 17". One modification that should probobly be done is to take the "wings" off the tail end of the spear. I think they are there to stop the spear from going in too deep but I would be afraid that if you sunk it down to those stops and they got inside, you could loose your grip on the spear if the buff starts spining or running. I guess it could knock you over with it too.
A second thought I had about getting close enough for a spear kill;
Leave the dogos tied up in the truck (for now) and walk up to the animal and talk real nice and sweet to it. Maybe he will stand long enough to get close. Thump, Thump!

One thing that I have a hard time buying into is that you would hunt a large and potentially dangerous animal, and throw away your weapon!! Aka spear. It is my not having the full picture, I'm sure, but throw away my weapon, not a chance! Bury me with it, cause they couldn't get it out of my hands, yeah!

quote:

throw away your weapon!!

Who said anything about , "Throwing"???

With two or three of Juan's Dogo's on the bull one would need to steep in and drive that spear in deep.

The action would be wild, a throw would out of the question, with the bull jumpimg around , dogs darting in and out.

Two or three dogs holding a a big bull??

They will hold a 1,200 kilos (2,400 pounds) water buffalo bull so you can get close enough to wack him with a spear.....????



L

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Two or three dogs holding a a big bull??

They will hold a 1,200 kilos (2,400 pounds) water buffalo bull so you can get close enough to wack him with a spear.....????



L

I must say it seems a little difficult to me too.

quote:

They will hold a 1,200 kilos (2,400 pounds) water buffalo bull so you can get close enough to wack him with a spear.....????

Well, it is still a hunt, as you both know anything can happen. I'm sure Juan will pick the hardest 3 Dogos in his kennel. I do believe that once the 1st on hits, the other will make a catch too. I also don't think the bull is going to give me much time to get in. They only realitively "safe" way would be to step in, drive the spear in deep and get back out. Hopefully , like a large Boar an deep wide hole throught the heart, lungs & arterys should work quickly. However, BOTH Juan & I will need to be ready to follow-up with fireams quickly. Any of you that have hunted Boar with dogs will understand how hard THAT shot is to make.

Where we do this is important to. In a marsh or water would be too dangerous. Heavy brush might also be perilous.

Boss,
I honestly respet your wish of doing these type of hunt and how you want to do it.

Hunting with dogs it's a great experience, but don't compare a wild buff with a hog. I know Juan's dogs must be VERY good because they are continously hunting, but it will be something too dangerous for them also.

Go to the north of Argentina, I think there are very good places for your waterbuff hunt. I think it will be much more challenging than if you hunt it in another place.

Good luck and don't take uneccesary risks. For me, a good DG hunter it's just that, someone who makes his kills without taking unecessary risks. If everything is normal, you will end using your rifle...

Sorry if I bored you with all my comments, but I know something about water buffs, not much, but enough....

Good luck
L

quote:

Sorry if I bored you with all my comments

Lorenz my friend I enjoy talking about this with you, nothing about hunting is ever boring!

While I may be much more daring than most, any risk I take is carefully calculated. If Juan and I feel this can be done....there will be a grand tale to tell!!!

BTW - I don't rifle hunt....So be it Spear, bow, handgun or knife....this will be an exciting hunt.

Lorenzo - The more you tell me it's impossible, the more I want to do it.

L

Boss Kongoni, with the spear as pictured and a couple of good dogs to give a moment of distraction, it looks doable. If I were a few years younger, yada yada, it looks like a fun challenge!! Get pics, please!!

Lorenzo - Do think the helmet & sheild is too much?

8mm - I think Juan is planning a movie deal.

Boss,
That helmut and shield looks great, I'm sure the gauchos will talk about your equipment many years after your departure.

I can imagine the situation, around a night fire, drinking mate, and the story begining with: "remember the gringo loco and his spear...? "

L

Am I crazy or in Uruguay helmet is spelled "helmut"?. This notwithstanding the incoming picture should be something to behold!!!!

Hi my friend!!
I'll be in la Pampa this weekend, it's full moon and the farmers are complaining that the porteños don't shoot straight so a bunch of uruguayans area going there to keep the crops free of pigs!!

It seems the nights will be cold but I hope to wack a good padrillo !!!!

I'm taking my 9,3x62.

Poor pigs, they don't know what is waiting for them, they are used to the argentinians hunters and they think that we are all similar.......
What a surprise they will have !!



L

Lorenzo: I´ll also be there this weekend. I´m going to the El Durazno area. Which is your hunting location?. PM me if you want.
Waidmannsheil!!...

Great!!!!
I will be 30 km away from Quehué.
I will be arriving there tomorrow around 4 pm.
Then we can share our experiences with our friends here!! So they will see the shooting differences between uruguayans and argentinians !!!

I will return monday morning.
these kind of hunts don't give too much spare time for sociality but maybe we can see us before or after around Santa Rosa.

I'm taking the 9,3x62 with a S&B 4-12x42 and 286 PMP bullets.

Good luck and take care!!!
L

Lorenzo: it don´t seems that we could afford a meeting....again. I´m going to the West of your hunting area and I´ll arrive there during Saturday´s afternoon. But of course the next Monday or Tuesday we´ll compare notes. Perhaps the next time you could warn me with a little more anticipation thus enabling me to make some arrangements...I hope to bring back some pictures (and irritate the moderator sending these for uploading at the forum, a thing which I don´t know how to do).
Regards and take care, the mist is a real menace these days and extreme cold is to be expected.

quote:

...I hope to bring back some pictures (and irritate the moderator sending these for uploading at the forum, a thing which I don´t know how to do).

Try this site, it is very user friendly.

http://www.imagevenue.com/

post the pic from your broser and you will get a URL that you can post here. There is a nice thumbnail/pop-up url option. It saves bandwith and allows for a full pic.

If you have a chance I'd really like to see those Cimmaron dogs.

Boss Kongoni: thanks for the info. Regarding the Cimmaron dogs, that´s a word which means "escapees" or wild dogs or peasants. By the way, Spanish for that is "cimarrones". In Argentina we use Dogos or some hybrids with Dogo blood. Of course there are always mongrels in the average packs.
Good luck and take care of yourself, we wait the tale of a buff hunt with Pleistocenic´s weaponry.

Nainital - Yes, I know the Dogos and hope to hunt with them with Juan next spring. I've seen Dogos here in the states.

I thought your were traveling to hunt in Uruguay. Lorenzo speaks of those dogs in his country. I haven't found much information on the internet.

A real man would use a gaff, not a spear.

i just returnned from a buffalo bow hunt with eyedoc in corrientes ,we will hunt the buffalo with a spear and we will use at least 8 dogos.juan

Jaun - 8 Dogos? There might not be anything left of the Buff by time I get to it.

I hope my friend Eyedoc and his group had a good hunt. I look forward to hearing about the adventure!

WE HAVE A WONDERFUL SAFARI HE CAN TELL YOU.JUAN

steve i dont think the cuting the length of the spear will be a good idea,we need all the force we can have and i think the more length the better.juan

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Masai, Boran, Shangaan and others all regularly kill buff with spears.

Never seen the masai in action but have seen and caught many a shangaan poacher.

1( thin pointed spear head- current favourite is industrial deformed bar- about 16mm with the point flattened and re-tempered.

Chase buff with dogs until buff is exhausted.
Stab with spear. Only throw if you have a possition of hight and never throw from more than 3 paces.

Phew! I'm trying to imagine what that thing would smell like, much less taste like, by the time all that mayhem was done with. You'd have to pound the biltong for an hour with a hammer, and then throw away the biltong and eat the hammer.....

quote:

Phew! I'm trying to imagine what that thing would smell like, much less taste like, by the time all that mayhem was done with

Those Africans are hungry and any protein is welcome in their diet.They arnt as picky as we are and you wont see many Fat ones either.