Juan,
I have just read your answer in the other post and maybe I'm having too much spare time but...

I don't understand how you can kill a buff with a spear, I not eaven can't imagine the hunting situation!! is not only how close you can get but also about how thick their skins are. Do you imagine the strength you need to reach the vitals?? Do you imagine what will be the reaction of that animal??

With a good bullet in the vitals any buff will run a lot of yards before going down, I don't want to imagine with a surface spear wound. I know some people hunts buffs with bow and arrow but here you must use only your arm strength.

There is no way that something like that will be achieve quickly, there must be something I am missing...

Was you speaking seriously or was just a joke???

L

I just spent the weekend at an event held at a very high quality knifesmith's shop. One of the items he was showing off is a lance being made for a English client who is a big game hunter who has taken pretty much all of the African dangerous game.

It is a wicked weapon, beautifully made, and I'd have no problem taking on a pig with it.

I very, very much hope the buyer is NOT planning to go after buff with this weapon. Seems mighty foolish to me ... even with two guys behind the hunter with .470 or larger doubles. Just getting close enough to use the lance could easily get one killed.

Mike,
Not only that, do you imagine the precision and the strength you need to reach the vitals if you throw your spear from what..5, 10 metres?? (imagining you get that closer to a buff whithout being noticed thing that I doubt)

And then??? no way.....

He seems to have lot of experience, as he said, he had killed hundreds of waterbuffs, that is much more than the ones my friends and I have ever shot. Maybe he has some idea how to do it or what kind of spear you need for such thing.

Obviously I'm missing something.

L

Peter Capstick tried it and described it in one of his books .IIRC he realized it was not a good idea !!

Peter Capstick tried it with a cape buff??

I know pigmys kill elephants, but they use poisoned arrows and spears, and then they follow the elephants till they died MANY miles away.

I saw this in tv, they sneek very slowly under the ele and put a poisoned arrow from very near and also they spear it and run, but always using poison.

Juan, I take my hat if you kill it with bow and arrow, that must be an increadible achievement, but I don't recommend you to use a spear, it will be too much dangerous (if possible), for you and for any other member involved.

L

Masai, Boran, Shangaan and others all regularly kill buff with spears.

Never seen the masai in action but have seen and caught many a shangaan poacher.

1( thin pointed spear head- current favourite is industrial deformed bar- about 16mm with the point flattened and re-tempered.

Chase buff with dogs until buff is exhausted.
Stab with spear. Only throw if you have a possition of hight and never throw from more than 3 paces.

Ganyana,
Never hunted a cape buff but I will not be at three paces from a waterbuff no matter how exhausted the buff is

To hunt a buff in that way the hunter must need VERY good legs to say something.

I've participate in waterbuffs kills using only ropes for put it down, thrown from horses, and then the gauchos get near and kill it with a knife in the throat, but only saw these with femals and youngsters, not big bulls. Once, during one of these excercises I get down from the horse and get near a young buff cow that was roped from two horses but still standing up, when I get close she broke one of the ropes, I don't want to imagine the same situation with an 1,000 kilos buff!!

I need three 416 rigby bullets to put her down!!!

These things are only possible when we find them in the open far away the bush, if not is impossible.

Not my cup of tea, so if someone invite me to spear a buff, my answer will be quite simple



L

jaegers some people are killing bufalos with spears even here in argentina so ill try it if a client asks my dogos can catch bufalos they have done that in the past then we will try capstcks have done it so a lot of others,in a coto called anuritay a loca ph regularly guides bufalos with spear for the sci spear south american diamond

Juan: Peter Capstick speared a sweet, juicy Cape buff and...almost lost his life. The beastie was killed by his partner with a very big gun at spitting distance.

If anyone is going to do this type of hunt. Please contact me, I want my name in your will, for any nice rifles or SxS shotguns left over.

Hog Killer

Interesting site to see, about hunting with spears.

http://www.huntingwithspears.com

Seems like Gene Morris have already hunted Water Buff, Cape Buff and american Bison with a spear.


Water Buff taken in Argentina


Trophy Room

I was a javelin thrower in high school and I think I would be willing to take a chance!

WITH THE AID OF 3 OF MY DOGOS ANYBODY CAN KILL A BUFALO WITH A COLD STEEL BOAR HUNTING SPEAR ITS NOT JOKE ILL GUIDE ANYBODY AND WE WILL KILL THE BUFFALO.JUAN

Juan, I think you´re right.

Here we have so called cattle dogs, like brazilian Fila, Dogos, even Pit Bulls, that help farm workers deal with their cattle. The dogs work just like sheep dogs, barking to keep the cattle grouped, but when a bull or cow heads out of the eway, they grab the bovine by the nose and the even the biggest bull will lay on the ground a while after.

One day I´ll hunt with you Juan. I like very much to see dogs working.

Phew! Will someone please do this and have a video made so I can watch it? Maybe . . . maybe then I'd give it a try. (cluck, cluck!)

quote:

Originally posted by Reiter:
Interesting site to see, about hunting with spears.

http://www.huntingwithspears.com

Seems like Gene Morris have already hunted Water Buff, Cape Buff and american Bison with a spear.


Water Buff taken in Argentina


Trophy Room

On his web page the following quotation

quote:

Morris boldly claims to be "The Greatest Living Spear Hunter in the World" and oftentimes will beat his chest loudly proclaiming it so… i.e. when giving speeches at the various functions he's asked to attend to share his exciting, and true adventure stories.
With his big game spear tally fast approaching 200 - who would challenge that statement??

Interesting how his website shows a tiny deer and he is holding a thrusting boar spear in his hands which he claims he used to kill it. Deer are usually very alert, just how did he get close enough to thrust the boar spear in???? Without the use of dogs.

This photo



Hell the spear head is almost bigger than the deer. Very shiny and clean too. Looks new and unused, ey?

His site appears to be a site to sell his book. Have a look at "Spear Chunker's" first chapter. No details of the hunts or anything other than unsupported bragging, a fair amount ofwhich is just how many thousands of dollars he spent on the hunts .

quote:

*****A LEGEND IN HIS OWN TIME *****

We have a saying too ...

****** A LEGEND IN HIS OWN LUNCH-TIME *******

one of my dogos paimun put a medium buffalo in the floor alone so believe i can put a spear in the heart .reiter ill like to show my dogos .paimun is dead but lanheul is hunting a lot and he easily kill a small buffalo.wild cebues are very dangeorus too ill try with them too.reiter what happens with the guns in brazil.juan

Juan

I am very interested in how a hunt on water buffalo is done with spears.

Can you outline the hunt strategy and plan?

eg what sort of country is necessary - the terrain? How many dogs are needed? Do they hold the buff or merely bark at it? Is it exhausted when the kill is made or still able? What approach is made on a buffalo - from behind, from the front, side? Is a thrusting spear used or a throwing spear? The aiming point and angle? What is the target - the heart I assume? What happens if the buff charges Anything else.

Have you actually done one before yourself?

I'm not knocking and am genuinely interested. Thanks.


PS I will see if I can dig up some of the pig hunting magazines you enquired about and send them to you. No FEDEX here unfortuantely so regular post will have to do. If they get stolen it won't be a big loss.

I haven't participated in the pig dogging knife hunts here but have wanted too. Need to get a little fitter first! Do want to get hold of some boar spears and also Samburu javelins as well as I used to be very good and accurate with a javelin.

im always speaking of killing the buffalo with the aid of my dogos like i kill the boars .im totally sure thats its posibly and ill guide anybody.dont worry ill have my 458 at hand.juan

my dogos dont bark but they will jump grab the nose of the buffalo put it down ,and ill kill it ,i saw my dogos figthing bufalos ill post a photo of paimun .juan they grab the nose and the nech i saw it.juan

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
im always speaking of killing the buffalo with the aid of my dogos like i kill the boars .im totally sure thats its posibly and ill guide anybody.dont worry ill have my 458 at hand.juan

Juan - I might take you up on that....I don't care about your .458...Just make sure those Dogos take a deep bite & hold on.


Juan - Seriously, how long can they hold a strike? As long as a Boar catch? Or does the bull throw then off?... I had a friend that had a female Catahoula about 70# that "bulldogged" a steer that got to close to her puppys. That little Gyp put that Steer down by herself!!!

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
one of my dogos paimun put a medium buffalo in the floor alone so believe i can put a spear in the heart .reiter ill like to show my dogos .paimun is dead but lanheul is hunting a lot and he easily kill a small buffalo.wild cebues are very dangeorus too ill try with them too.reiter what happens with the guns in brazil.juan

Juan, are you talking about the new laws on gun restrictions ?


Guys, Dogos and Pit Bulls are very strongs dogs, they bite a bull nose and don´t let it go until its on the ground, by the lack of oxigen.
I´ve seen average bulls shaking their heads with Pit Bulls biting them, and they do not stop holding, sometimes the cattle gets hurts, but just minor injuries.
Thats with domestic cattle, I supose with wild buffs it´ll get a little bit nasty....

yes im talking about gun control im worried because Brazil have a lot of ipsc shooters and hunters.juan

Juan, here, before the beggining of the new law, we already had very burocratic laws and expensive taxes concerning to guns.
Now is even worse, just to register a gun you have to pay like 120 US dollars. To import a gun you got to pay like 200% of it´s price in taxes. To be able to have guns got to pay a anual taxation, wich is expensive too, but more than that, is very very burocratic. To get a caliber large than 44-40 WCF or 12ga the army have to give you an licens, wich they decide if they should or not. I say that people in Brasil that are still on IPSC shooting or hunting ( wich is allowed just in very few states, very expensive taxes too ) are brave people. It´s a sad thing, but this left wing goverment achieved to make worse a thing that were already bad.

you must unit noaw tofigth they will take of your guns dogs spears knives everything.we are legally figthing here but things are changing and we have a great hunting tradition.juan

Thanks for the support Juan. The problem here is that most part of the peoplo are concerned about other thing. They don´t give a damn about guns or hunting. But we´re trying to make this change, slowly but trying. And this leftist goverment, I hope next elections it will change. How come in 21st century still have leftist people in the wolrd ?

ITS INCREDIBLY BUT THE ANTIGUN MOVEMENT GAINS POWER YEAR AFTER YEAR ,SEE AUSTRALIA,ENGLAND,AND NOW CHILE BRAZIL VENEZUELA AND ARGENTINA ALL LEFT WING GOVERMENTS WITH NOT RESPECT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL RIGTHS AND VENEZUEAL AT LEAST HATES THE USA.JUAN

quote:

Sarge

Sarge, If you want to sponsor my hunt. I'll have Juan video it (he needs to practice with the video recorder) and I'll kill a buff with a spear! By the way I do want Juan to be there with that big azz gun!

quote:

Interesting how his website shows a tiny deer and he is holding a thrusting boar spear in his hands which he claims he used to kill it. Deer are usually very alert, just how did he get close enough to thrust the boar spear in???? Without the use of dogs.

This photo

I cant vouch for this guy but, I have hunted whitetails for more than 20 years and on many occasions I have been close enough to them that I could have killed it with a knife (or spear). I could easily see someone sitting in a low tree stand and sticking it when it was feeding underneath.
On one deer drive my brother was waiting behind a large oak tree and he saw the deer running strait for the tree he was behind but on the other side. He slowly turned and went to look around the other side of the tree. As soon as he poked his head out the other side....Wham. The deer ran right into him (actually..right into his arrow!). I came over the hill and there was my brother. White as a ghost, hat turned sideways, bow laying on the ground and his arrow bent in half! You deffinately can get close enough.

WildPork

His clothes are also spotlessly clean.

But maybe I am being too tough on the guy.

quote:

His clothes are also spotlessly clean.

But maybe I am being too tough on the guy.

I hunted in RSA with a outtfitter that he hadhunted with a few weeks prior. He is real. on that hunt the PH told me he was above his prey in a tree stand. The game was baited into range.

I understand he nearly cut the Zebra in 1/2.

That being the case one could robably huntin a suit & tie.

Boss Kongoni,
I've been trying to figure out how I would kill a buffalo with the spear. I would want to have the option of using a knife in case the sumbtch get's too close. I think I know how to do it! As long as the buffalo goes along with the plan. I also want Juan to shoot it if it rototills me! How would you do it?

quote:

Originally posted by wildpork:
Boss Kongoni,
I've been trying to figure out how I would kill a buffalo with the spear. I would want to have the option of using a knife in case the sumbtch get's too close. I think I know how to do it! As long as the buffalo goes along with the plan. I also want Juan to shoot it if it rototills me! How would you do it?

Funny you ask that. I was watching the Pro Bull Riding Rodeo on cable. I have to think if your're were within spear range and those Dogo had the Buff by the nose & neck he'd be spinning & bucking. a few feet out you might have a better chance to get you head kicked-off.

Knife or Spear I think you'd need to step and get it done & get out....FAST.

I've heard storys of bulldogs & big curs throwing a steer or bull. So manybe, if the Buff went down ist could be done?

Either way this would be one great adventure.

Considering a water buffalo might weigh as much as 2000 lbs, I'd like to see a dog "throw" a buffalo. The other way round I think. Maybe South American buff are smaller and tamer.

I SAW MY DOGO PAIMUN PUT DOWN A BUFFALO OF 700KILOS BUT A BIG MALE IS 1200 KLS OR MORE WE WILL SEE WITH 4 DOGOS BOS KONGONI WILL TRY TO KILL ONE WITH A SPEAR.JUAN

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
Considering a water buffalo might weigh as much as 2000 lbs, I'd like to see a dog "throw" a buffalo. The other way round I think. Maybe South American buff are smaller and tamer.

This "trowing" is a matter of balance and responce to a nerve hold. It's more a matter of gettinmg te Buff down. Not like judo. While not for faint of heart, it is possible. Not unlike tring to get the ball scrum if one get in fast does his job....hopefull the props won't flatten you.

The two things I would concern myself with would be the buff spinning & kicking. Also, finding my way in without hitting a dog.

I know it sounds even crazier but, I still think a long knife might be "safer"( I can't believe I said that) as it would be harder to have that knocked from your grip.

In what area/province the hunt will take place?

So this is the idea:
A wild 2,400 pounds waterbuff bull chased by dogs will decide to fight them back in some thick nasty vegetation, there some of the dogs will try to grab his nose, others will bite his back legs, so he will be turning round to fight them also, in some moment you get close and kill him with a knife or with a spear.

Do you have something of value to leave me?


L

lorenzo you will be invited but boss will have a freedon arms 454 casull ,ill have a 458winch my partner a 375hyh all will be filmed ill invite gus too.juan

quote:

Do you have something of value to leave me?

Even if it isn't possible to make a spear kill. Being that close to water buff and killing it with a large bore handgun would still be very exciting.

I've heard a single dogs throwing a steer. So with fine & experience hog hunter's like Juan's Dogos I feel this CAN be done.

I don't know the area but if it similar to here you will also need some horses.....something is sure.....it will be a mess

How do you know what will the dogs catch?

Here we use dogos a lot and also we use the CIMARRON (an uruguayan dog), similar but less sissy . I imagine riding through some open bush with the dogs running around and looking for something.

After running a couple of foxes, hares, rheas and some other varmints, if you are in a good area you will find :
1) a lonely bull (if you are lucky)
2) a bunch of cows with some youngsters and one or two bulls.

The dogs will bite whatever is easier for them.

Imagine you are the luckiest hunter in the world and they choose a big bull, normally they will run into thick bush, you must go on foot leaving someone behind with the horses, here you will have a very crazy and angry bovine with dogs biting him, yes you will be able with luck (obviously) to get closer and put a shot on him, but with all the adrenalin pumping it's not sure he will go down, and here is were comes the good part (the one of the mess )

My modest opinion is that too many guns (and too many people is not the best thing), the final aproach must be done between you and Juan.

Again it will depend on the area you will be hunting them. No doubt it will be exiting.

Juan, in what province the hunt will take place?? How you will manage to hunt a bull? maybe a good idea is to hold the dogs with ropes and stalk a lonely buff and once near you release them, this way you avoid fighting with a cow or with a young bull (not the same).

Anyhow, we are improving, we have change the spear for a handgun....in a few more post there will be a Lott playing around

Just having some fun Boss

Good luck
L