If so, what loads?

Thanks

I have, when it was all that I had. I have carried a 9mm, when it was all that I had. I have carried 12ga pump shotgun, when I was really worried about it. All in Alaska during the summer, doing summertime coastal Alaska fun stuff.

get the highest velocity, non expanding, not round nose, load you can find. and don't worry about a bear.(carry a big can of bear spray too, just in case

If you want to, look at the 480 Rowland conversion, it is a souped up 45ACP and gives more power to the 1911 frame, so to speak.

What kind of bear country? In black bear country, yes. I've carried my 1911 with Buffalo Bore 230gr Flatnose FMJ. Never had to use it though... For BIG bears, No F'n Way! I've got a 4" 500 S&W for that.

No!!!!! I take my .454 or my light weight back packing S&W .44. I love my 1911, but no knives to a gun fight!

Brett

In the news this past summer a guy killed a grizzly with a 45acp in Denali National Park that was attacking his girl friend. Last I heard this shooting was under investigation. I never did hear the outcome, but the bear was dead and his only armament was a 45acp. You might google this and see if you can get more details.

Personally I,d prefer a revolver with WFNs, with a little speed behind em. Think you can get Buffalo Bore ammo with hard cast bullets,no? Or build em.. As long as they don,t jam up on you, probably better odds than " Bad Bear!! NO!!!"..

Just took a little peek, Montana Bullet Works has a 230 gr flat nose cast, and Beartooth has a 225, if ya roll yer own..

I carry one in black bear country a lot. I also carry my 44 41 and 40 357 and 9mm. I live there.

But then with 500lb to 700lb black bears being common in Wis makes one thinks that the 44 or 41 might be better.

My (bear) load for my 45 is a 250 keith SWC hard cast at 875 fps.

When in grizzy country I perfer my 44 or 41 mag

If I knew I had to shoot a bear I would perfer a rifle.

Smith 329 airweight .44 mag with hardcast wfn's. Its a bugger to shoot for fun but it is light enough that I ALWAYS have it with me and it has enough horsepower to end any close range problems that I might encounter.

P.S. The fact that it is a revolver allows for "worst case scenario" contact shots that you can not perform with an auto (well, you can usually get 1 contact shot with an auto). The fact that it is double action allows for efficient one handed operation in an emergency. Shooting one handed and thumb cocking a single action in a close contact fight for your life is just to much. Good luck with whatever you choose and sleep peacefully realizing that for 99% of people it is just an exercise in mental gymnastics and most anything will work better than throwing rocks or screaming like a little girl!

I used to carry my 1911 in black bear country, but sumetimes carry a .44 mag in grizzly country. If I'm rifle hunting, I'll usually go lighter and not carry a pistol.

Here's a 6' black that fell from a 220 gr hard cast SWC from my 1911, many years ago.

I have. On my first 2 black bear hunts,they were horseback hunts north and west of Troy Montana, which is Griz country as well.

I carried my beloved Light Weight Commander I have had since the late 1960's. I am wearing it right now.

I killed several grouse with it on that trip, with CCI Speer shotshells. I did not shoot a bear on that trip.

I carried the LWC the very next year hunting with the same outfit. I killed a very nice 7 foot 2 inch colorphase black bear[with a rifle]. After I saw how big the bones were, how much fat they carried, and how dense the muscle mass was I knew I should be carrying my 44 Mag, and I have every since.

I carried 230gr ball ammo in the LWC.

The wife and I backpacked for bear in that area for 12 yers in a row, we always both carried 4" 44 Mags.

When I carried my 475 L Freedom Arms for bear hunting in Idaho several years later, I always carried a 1911 of some sort as a second. Them Pluck and Chuck single actions are just too slow to reload. I carried Buffalo Bore 230gr +P ammo in the 1911. Also there are Meth labs in them woods, so the 1911 makes me feel better about that as well.

I think a good hand with a 1911 can get by in bear country. I would carry either 230gr ball, or Buffalo Bore 230gr +P Flat Point or their +P 255 gr Lead FP.

I have a custom 10mm Auto with 6" barrel shooting 200 gr hard cast and JHP at 1,300-1,400 fps with a 14 round mag. Pretty confident that will stop any bear.

Cheap route, get a Glock Model 20 in 10mm and a Lonewolf 6" barrel.

I used to, then I was charged by a black bear that had gotten into my cooler and was determined to keep it. I pulled my 1911 as he was running at me, huffing with every step. he stopped about 20' away, just as I was crapping my pants, flicking off the safety and realizing what a puny gun I had in my hands.
I was on a solo backpack trip above the arctic circle in Alaska. I was getting ready to duck into the tent for a mid-afternoon nap away from the mosquitoes, when I spied a large grizzly walking straight at me about 50 yards away. Again, crap pants, reflect on what a puny gun I had in my hands, and hope the bear spray in the other hand worked as good as the advertising said. Fortunately both of those bears left on their own.
Now I carry a .454 Casull.

quote:

used to, then I was charged by a black bear that had gotten into my cooler and was determined to keep it. I pulled my 1911 as he was running at me, huffing with every step. he stopped about 20' away, just as I was crapping my pants, flicking off the safety and realizing what a puny gun I had in my hands.

I had something simular happen I was out for a walk with my dog saw a 200 lb black bear cross the road ahead of me and said cool.

There was a 90degree trun in the road as we turned it my dog wolfed. As I looked there was a 250 to 300 lb sow with that years cubs standing in the road about 30 yards away.

She swated the cubs off the road and turned towads me and the dog. I had pulled my 9mm hi power and had taken a good weaver stance.

She took a few step towards me poping her teeth slapping her feet on the road. I yelled at the dog to stay then yelled at the bear to leave.

All I thought about was bear your going to die Iam going to place all 13 115gr jhps into your head and shoulders. You better leave. there was a mark on the road at about 25 feet I knew if she hit that I was going to start shooting.

After 15 seconds or so and a few more steps towards me she followed the cubs into the brush. Seemed like a minute or two.

Any gun is better then no gun even if I had been carring a 22lr I would have done the same thing. And would have shot if it was needed.

quote:

Originally posted by cobrad:
...I pulled my 1911...and realizing what a puny gun I had in my hands.

Isn't the internet great??? I never would have thought of my 1911 as being "puny".

On my second black bear hunt, I remember crawling into the thick alders after a bear another had wounded with a rifle. There was a pretty good blood trail.
The hunter would not go in, so it was the outfitter and I that went in after it. I was carrying my Beloved 1911 Light Weight Commander in 45 ACP [and yes I am wearing it right now], loaded with 230gr Hardball.

It was way to thick for any type of long gun.

The thought did occur to me, that maybe I should have brought my 4" 44 Mag...

On the same hunt;
I followed a second bear shot by another hunter into the thick by myself, as the hunter and the guide, the outfitters young son, held their position to see if the bear would run out of the thick batch of alders he had gone in.

The hunter was a well known bowhunter that on the near end of our hunt decided to shoot a bear with my rifle. I left the rifle with him, as the bush was too thick for a long gun.

It was thick, I was within 4 or 5 feet before I saw the bear, luckly for me he was dead.

Since then I have most always carried at least a 4" 44 Mag.

NE 450 No2

You just remined me of my daughters frist bear. She place a 180 gr hornaday for a perfect heart shot and broke the off shoulder.

It ran off leaveing a blood trail a blind person could follow. I grabed my 44 5.5 redhawk and followed it up.

On my hands and knees I was glad it was dead when I found it also about five feet away.

I recently tried some of those Buffalo Bore 255 grain cast in my 45 ACP 5 inch Kimber. I really like this load! Only the recoil spring was changed, from a standard 16 pound to a 20 pounder. I feel that for this set up [20 pound spring] this round is to heavy as the spent brass were thrown 18-20 feet and the cases were dented from hitting the slide on the way out. What to do? You can't just add a heavier spring because it will only increase the slide velocity on the way forward and that results with barrel link problems and also broken slide stop pins.

Well I have been reading quite a bit on how to slow that slide down and came up with a couple of things. First thing is to get a new oversize EGW firing pin stop and also change the mainspring [hammer spring] to a heavier poundage one. Those two items should slow that slide down on the way back.

I have both on order and they should be here soon for a try.

Regards, Keith

quote:

Originally posted by buffybr:

quote:

Originally posted by cobrad:
...I pulled my 1911...and realizing what a puny gun I had in my hands.

Isn't the internet great??? I never would have thought of my 1911 as being "puny".

From a comment like that I would think you must not have any experience with bigger handguns, but I'll bet you have.
A few years back I shot a B&C black bear. He went close to 600 lbs. I shot him with a .44 mag pushing 325 gr hard cast bullets to about 1300 fps. Shot in the right front shoulder, both bullets were found in the hide of the left rear hind quarter. Range was 10 paces, and the bullets penetrated a good 4' of bear. I doubt my .45 acp would have killed the bear quick enough to have found it when it ran off. I think even the smaller bear that wanted to keep my cooler would have had plenty of steam after a few shots with the acp to chew me up before he died. The .45 was envisioned as a man killer, not a potentially dangerous game killer.

quote:

Range was 10 paces, and the bullets penetrated a good 4' of bear.

One doesn't need four feet of penetration to kill a bear.

Anymore then poking holes in both lungs and heart. Or hitting the brain or cutting the spineing cord might be nice but isn't needed.

The point I was getting at, but stated poorly, was I would not have trusted the acp to have had sufficient penetration to reach the chest cavity on that particular shot. As it was, a heavy jacketed soft point in that .44 probably would have produced more damage in the chest cavity, with less total penetration, and killed faster than the hard cast did.
I have no doubt that the acp can kill a bear with a broad side shot, but it is not what I would choose. I can tell you this, if the bear that charged me had not stopped at that instant I would certainly have started shooting, grateful to have had the .45 acp.

Last year while camping with my wife, I woke in the middle of the night to see the head of a bear silhouetted as it pushed against the side of the tent beside me. Without thinking I back-handed it and shouted "get out". Not only did it not budge, but it was as solid as hitting a bag of sand. I grabbed the .45 acp beside me and racked a round as the bear's head slid out from under the rain fly. As it slowly walked off it occurred to me that the shadow did not look right, it wasn't big enough. As it turned out my bear head was actually a porcupine!
That was when I decided to get a bigger gun for the unlikely chance I may actually need to shoot a bear in self-defense.
And, it was a good excuse to get another gun.

Did you find quills in the tent fabric.

Lucky you didn't get a hand full of them.

They hurt having taken a few in the leg one time.

Cobrad,
If you want more power out of your acp try some of that Buffalo Bore. They state on their web site that it's a 255 grain cast with a velocity of 960 FPS and the way my 1911 acted I believe them.
Keith

No quills, but it could have been ugly.
Now that I have the .454 it will become my camping/tent gun. I have a shoulder holster to make it easy to carry. Don't need that hog leg hanging from my belt.
But this thread is about the .45 acp. That Buffalo Bore load sounds like a good one. It sounds like a load that would bring this round to a different level of performance.
Do you have a slide buffer in your gun for shooting this load?

quote:

Originally posted by cobrad:

quote:

Originally posted by buffybr:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cobrad:
...I pulled my 1911...and realizing what a puny gun I had in my hands.

Isn't the internet great??? I never would have thought of my 1911 as being "puny".

From a comment like that I would think you must not have any experience with bigger handguns, but I'll bet you have.
QUOTE]
Yes, I have two Ruger Super Blackhawks, both have 7 1/2" barrels, one is stainless, one blued. I've carried the blued one since the late '70s. I've shot several thousand rounds through it. It also has one black bear to it's credit. I also make full cylinder length shells for it (from .303 Brittish and .30-40 Krag cases), load them with 1/2 oz of #8 shot, and have fun shooting station high 8 skeet targets with it. I got a size/deprime die for it from RCBS.

Back to the .45 acp, I'm well aware that it only has about half of the energy of a .44 mag, but I wouldn't hesitate to kill another black bear with it, if I needed to or if I wanted to.

Cobrad,
No I don't have a buffer. If you look at my comments above you will see that I have only tried the round with a 20 pound recoil spring. Just 1 hour ago I recieved the mentioned firing pin stop but not the 25 pound mainspring. It is said that the FPS should slow down the slide's recoil. This piece takes a little fitting so tomorrow I will get it installed and take a couple of shots.

I really like the 1911 shooting the BB round but I don't want it to beat up my pistol either.

Regards, Keith

I would like to hear how that works when you have it all figured out.
Buffy, those shot shells you are making sound pretty useful. I had not heard of that before.

IMHO The key to shooting +P and +P+ rounds in auto or that matter revolvers is don't shoot a lot of them.

I shoot just enough to make sure they work, hit where I want and that I know how they handle.

Carry them for self defense and hunting. For every plus load or full magum load I shoot thousands of reduced loads.

I have no trouble hitting with the heavey loads when I need to use them.

Just a thought
in Alaska fishing on the Kenai a few years ago at the confluence of the Russian we ran into a bit of a scare with a griz coming down the path
snarling and trying to steal fish. I had my wife and daughter with me and no gun. The bear was pretty pissy. We hooked up with a couple other guys getting the hell out of dodge. They were both carrying 45 ACP. I thought at the time that it was not quite bear medicine. However, after talking to these guys, both Alaska natives, at the trail head and asking them about their choice of handgun what they said made pretty good sense. They told me they carried 45 autos as its not about killing the bear with one shot but being able to control a pistol and get several shots into the bears head at a close quarters charge, killing the bear with a head shot or turning the bear away from the charge. Considering that the recoil from a 45 is a lot more manageable than a 44 mag or 454 casull I understand there thought on the subject, not saying thats what I would carry given a choice. But hey, a 45 is a hell of a lot better defense than a fly rod
fyi- it was just a year after we were there that a man was pretty badly mauled on the exact same trail we were on. I believe the bear was shot with a 45 by another guy and later folowed up and killed by Alaska F and G

Roar,
Those guy's thoughts are mine also. I have 3 44s and 2 45 Colts which are much more powerful but much larger and heavier in physical size than a 1911. Also the auto can be loaded with 9 or more rounds.
Regards, Keith

us Wyo guys think a like huh?
Born in Cheyenne and raised in the Riverton to Dubois area

Random thoughts... And Remember the 1911 is my most favorite handgun.

First the power of a 1911 is nowhere near the same power level of a 44 Mag...

Second, and this is my biggest concern, IF you are knocked down in an animal attack, and manage to pull your handgun, there is a good chance in a "grappling" situation that your semiauto will only get off one shot, where a revolver is more likely to fire all 6 rounds.

Third, Handgun shotshells. When in snake country, in a revolver, I usually carry 2 shotshells up first, followed by four bulleted rounds.

In bear country, I carry all real bullets, but I have shotshells very handy when grouse is in season. I find it far easier to quickly ready the revolver for grouse than the semiauto.

However I always carry a full magazine of shotshells for the 1911, and on several occasions I have been able to change the magazine, the round out of the chamber,and load up with shotshells in the 1911 and shoot some grouse. It just takes a little more "doing".

I have stated this in other threads, but if I were going to cary the ACP in bear country, it would be stoked with hard cast Lyman 454424s loaded to the top of the chart. Every 45 I have ever shoved a magazine full of them into ate them like they were 230 ball, and if memory serves, some of the older load manuals list several loads for that combination.

255-260 grains beats 230!

While I am a fan of carry what you've got (any gun being better than no gun), I've always been a fan of carry the largest caliber you can shoot accurately at least twice in a row with at least a modicum of speed. I have a 1911 that I'm fond of but when I am in bear territory I carry my 454.
The idea of trying to kill a bear with a head shot from the front is not your best shot. Shoot center of mass.

quote:

Originally posted by .429:
While I am a fan of carry what you've got (any gun being better than no gun), I've always been a fan of carry the largest caliber you can shoot accurately at least twice in a row with at least a modicum of speed. I have a 1911 that I'm fond of but when I am in bear territory I carry my 454.
The idea of trying to kill a bear with a head shot from the front is not your best shot. Shoot center of mass.

With a bear charging out of the alders straight at you his head is the largest target

Full Roar...

The head is not stationary when a bear runs at you. Aim center of mass and you just might hit it. Just remember that the brain is in the back of the head behind all that bone. Center of mass is still larger than even a bear with a very big head.

.429,
I agree with your idea to carry the largest caliber that you can shoot well as that only makes sense. But some of these pistols need wheels and a team to pull them.

Some years ago I bought a 454 chambered in one of those Super Redhawks. While in the store I was in love with that thing. Took it home for a quick cleaning and headed out south of town to bust some caps. As I was getting the pistol loaded I started realizing how BIG that piece of iron actually was and I didn't like it at all.

As I am getting older [73] I have started using my 2 45 acps more and the larger heavier pistols stay home. In fact I just arrived from a nice walk and that Kimber was there with me.

Regards, Keith

I looked at one of the S&W Performance Center 460's, but decided it was just way too much handgun to actually carry around.
My Freedom Arms 454 is relatively light and easy to pack around in the FA chest holster I carry it in.