quote:

Originally posted by .429:
Full Roar...

The head is not stationary when a bear runs at you. Aim center of mass and you just might hit it. Just remember that the brain is in the back of the head behind all that bone. Center of mass is still larger than even a bear with a very big head.

But a shot just a little off of the head still results in a body or spine hot. I perfer to aim rt at the nose a little high rt between the eyes a little low center of the neck chest. Rt or left shoulder, chest hits.

A nose hit nice soft tissue lets you drive the bullet easy to the brain.

But its not a perfect world always shoot more then once and don't be afraid of ammo costs.

quote:

Originally posted by cobrad:
I looked at one of the S&W Performance Center 460's, but decided it was just way too much handgun to actually carry around.
My Freedom Arms 454 is relatively light and easy to pack around in the FA chest holster I carry it in.

I really like the Freedom Arms pistols, they developed the 454 Casul. I have one with a 5" barrel that I bought years ago. It is not difficult to carry, but it recoils heavily. I am not sure I could get off more than 1 shot at a hard charging critter and still get back on target. I also have a ported Raging Bull 44mag, much easier to control but not nearly as easy as my 45 acp or 40 Smith and Wesson. Bear country I carry the 44 with Corbon bullets

I shot 9 full power rounds through my .454 when I bought it. I hit a baseball size rock at about 25 yards with the first shot, then my accuracy went all to hell. I'm currently loading to hot .44 mag levels, and a lot of .45 colt level reloads for practice. I hope one day to become skillful enough with this hotrod to accurately shoot full-house loads.

I just interviewed a fellow that was badly mauled by a grizzly that emptied one clip and part of another into the bear at point blank range from a .45ACP before it broke off the attack. While the gun undoubtedly saved his life, it goes to show that a lot can go wrong before it goes good.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
I just interviewed a fellow that was badly mauled by a grizzly that emptied one clip and part of another into the bear at point blank range from a .45ACP before it broke off the attack. While the gun undoubtedly saved his life, it goes to show that a lot can go wrong before it goes good.

when did this happen and where?

Swan Hills Alberta..... September 2012

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Swan Hills Alberta..... September 2012

I read 3 or 4 news articles on a Sept 18th 2012 attack no mention of what type of firearm was used. Do you have a link to a news article that says what type was used.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
Swan Hills Alberta..... September 2012

I read 3 or 4 news articles on a Sept 18th 2012 attack no mention of what type of firearm was used. Do you have a link to a news article that says what type was used.

No I don't...just going on what he told me during the interview I did with him.

After about 40 years of working almost daily in bear & cougar country, I've finally settled on a S&W 1006, if I simply must resort to only a handgun. My first choice is a plain old Remington Model 7 in .308 with iron sights. For some reason it likes heavy bullets, and puts 220 gr. Sierras at 2300'/sec into ridiculously small groups. I love it!

I tried three different Model 29s, and found them cumbersome, and two of them gave me mechanical problems.

A really nice lightweight Commander shot well, but always felt like it wasn't enough. There was something about being able to actually see the bullets in flight that I found unsettling.

The 1006 is pretty good. Accuracy is good enough (2" at 25 m.) and penetration into a stack of plywood seems to be as good as the .44 mags used to do. It's also flatter and less of a nuisance than the Model 29s, and since I bought it (whenever they first came out) it's never had a FTF or FTE, not even once. But I still prefer a light rifle, if I can manage it.

Back to the OPs question, I think the .45s best bet would be with hard cast semi wadcutters.

There's one thing I can tell you for sure - if a bear isn't mad at you, you can kill him with a .22. If he's mad, you almost can't kill him with anything - I once shot the front end right out from under one. He was skidding on his chin, but still pedalling at me with his hind legs and mad as hell. He came about 30 feet that way until I killed him about ten feet from me. Better to shoot before he's mad, even if you just shoot close to scare him; he'll either run away or die a lot easier. If anybody asks, just tell the fish cop he was charging... I don't have a high regard for bears.

quote:

My first choice is a plain old Remington Model 7 in .308 with iron sights. For some reason it likes heavy bullets, and puts 220 gr. Sierras at 2300'/sec into ridiculously small groups. I love it!

What load are you using for the 220s, What chronograph did you use to measure the velocity.

My short barreled 3006 likes the 220s also it kills big hogs and a couple of bears nicely.

Not to hi-jack my own thread but I am intrigued by the idea of a utilitarian 3006 fitted with irons or a peep dedicated to shooting heavy bullets. Pretty much the reason I bought my Sedgley. At 50-yards or less I can shoot that rifle standing with no rest as well as I can any of my scoped rifles.

I know a 3006 is not the ideal answer for stopping big bears but if there is one rifle that I want to be able to shoot quickly and accurately it is my Sedgley.

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
Not to hi-jack my own thread but I am intrigued by the idea of a utilitarian 3006 fitted with irons or a peep dedicated to shooting heavy bullets. Pretty much the reason I bought my Sedgley. At 50-yards or less I can shoot that rifle standing with no rest as well as I can any of my scoped rifles.

I know a 3006 is not the ideal answer for stopping big bears but if there is one rifle that I want to be able to shoot quickly and accurately it is my Sedgley.

Pretty much what one of my 318 WR's is.
Has open sights and a peep but don't use
the peep sight much.

I use it sometimes to shoot Buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

My first choice is a plain old Remington Model 7 in .308 with iron sights. For some reason it likes heavy bullets, and puts 220 gr. Sierras at 2300'/sec into ridiculously small groups. I love it!

What load are you using for the 220s, What chronograph did you use to measure the velocity.

My short barreled 3006 likes the 220s also it kills big hogs and a couple of bears nicely.

I'm sorry - I lied! It's 2200'/sec.

The load is 45 gr. of H-4350 in Norma brass with CCI-200 primers. The chronograph is a Chrony F-1

The last entry in my log shows three rounds, 2208, 2192, 2196 fps into a group of .495 with a Leupold M8 4x.

An earlier group (same load) shows 5 rounds in 0.91, but I didn't get the velocities.

It also really likes the old R/P 180 gr. RN bullets but I cant seem to get them anymore (and I'm almost out). Those worked well with 46.5 gr. of WW-760. It does o.k. with Hornady 180 RN, but there's nothing like those old Remingtons.

Once I got those loads worked out I just took the scope off and used the irons. Its surprising how good you can shoot with them if you practice a bit - as a kid I couldn't afford a scope, and grew up on iron sights, so it's kind of second nature for me.

Oddly enough, I stumbled on that 220 gr. load by accident - I have a whole bunch of those Sierras that I got in a swap and was looking for ways to use them up. The very first load I tried was the one I posted. Sometimes you get lucky! They're kind of soft but at that velocity it shouldn't matter, and it might even be an advantage.

I know with a case full of 4831 I get just under 2300 out of my 18.5 inch 06 scout rifle.

Your right at that vel they don't need to be a super duper bullet they kill just fine.

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I know a 3006 is not the ideal answer for stopping big bears

Maybe not ideal, but pretty darn good all the same. Many people underestimate a good .30-06 with heavy bullets. I wouldn't feel hard done by with one, any time or any place.
When I was growing up, that was a bloody BIG rifle! Most guys shot .30-30s and .38-55s, and shot everything in Canada with them. When I got a .30-06 my Dad was mad as hell, and said all I'd do was wreck meat.
He'd roll over in his grave if he saw the stuff I have now.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:

quote:

I know a 3006 is not the ideal answer for stopping big bears

Maybe not ideal, but pretty darn good all the same. Many people underestimate a good .30-06 with heavy bullets. I wouldn't feel hard done by with one, any time or any place.

The father of a friend of mine was a real deal hunter back in the early 50's. He has pictures if his dad with several different BIG browns (giant by today's standards) over a period of several years. He killed every one of them with a M70, 30-06 and no scope. When I ask my friend about it he told me his dad shot a lot. "Practice or at the bears", I ask. "Both" he replied. What's the saying about a man who shoots one gun?

A few weeks ago I found out that there are actually 230 and 240 gr bullets in .308. Curious why no one talks about shooting them for big/dangerous game?

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:


I know a 3006 is not the ideal answer for stopping big bears but if there is one rifle that I want to be able to shoot quickly and accurately it is my Sedgley.

Phil Shoemaker has used the 30-06 for back up on big bears quite a bit and maintains that loaded with proper bullets the 30-06 is adequate under any and all conditions for big bears.

I tend to agree with Phil

I carried a 1911 in bare country. Only had one place to hang the pistol and I really, really didn't want to bring an extra magazine.

Friend of mine has bears around the neighborhood frequently. Last week the local game warden made a poor shot on one with his .308 and lost the bear in the dark. My friend went up with the warden the next day to track it. They caught up with it and the warden put another round with his .45acp into it. Bear got up and ran away again. This time they never found it.
When I am guiding elk hunters in the same area this fall I'll be carrying my .454. They have had a few instances where the lowly black bear has charged when come upon while eating on an elk the hunters have shot. If I ever have to shoot one, I want to make a real impression on him RIGHT NOW!

quote:

Friend of mine has bears around the neighborhood frequently. Last week the local game warden made a poor shot on one with his .308 and lost the bear in the dark. My friend went up with the warden the next day to track it. They caught up with it and the warden put another round with his .45acp into it

Shot placement is key no matter what one shoots them with.

I completely agree with the importance of shot placement. I also feel a magnum handgun is still the better tool. As much as I discourage the practice of taking lousy shot angles with big rifles on an elk, this is a case where being to take a poor angle, like the infamous Texas Heart Shot, and still penetrate to the vitals is... vital.