Which do you use if you "expect" just fall weather.

4 season tents are more $$ and weigh more. Is the extra margin worth it for an elk hunt in CO?

I have day hunted mostly for elk when I lived in Denver, only camped once (no backpack, just by the truck) and that was in a 3 season tent. 3 inches of snow, but no big deal. That said, there was always some dude from Texas that freezes to death in his jeans in CO hunting each year.

The 3 - 4 season rating has very little to do with insulation. If you have a good sleeping bag you'll be fine either way. The 4 season tents have extra poles and are built stronger to handle high winds. The warmest tents have two layers that seal up so there is a dead air space between the two. I have a 3 season tent that is made this way and is pretty warm. On the other hand some 4 season tents are built with one layer to keep weight down. I suppose that tents for purely winter weather don't have to be waterproof since there will be only snow, but the one layer tents do claim to be water proof.

I was up hunting a couple of weeks ago (Area 19 in CO) and the wind was so strong it was shaking my car-probably gusts to 80mph or so. If you are tent camping with a 3 season tent you'll want to find a place that is sheltered from the wind or you'll be having the tent collapsing onto you (they won't necessarily break, but the walls will invert and bump into you - not good for sleeping). I was really glad to be in my car and not my tent those weekends. I did a tent trip in November (area 191 in CO) and found a nice little valley that happened to get no wind - that weekend was really windy too.

I'd recommend a 4 season tent for Colorado if you're set on tenting.

I thought the rating had to do with the number of poles ie at least 3 instead of two, and the tent itself not to have any significant netting to reduce airflow. Also, the 4 season is designed to handle snow loads better.

?????Am I mistakened?

To keep weight at a minimum, I use a 3 season tent. They do not have storm flaps - just mesh, over which there is a rain fly.

However, for winter camping I use a North Face VE24, which is an Everest-type 4 season tent. But it weighs 10 pounds or almost that.

I never expect just fall weather, and consider only expedition quality tents worth using. The extra quality and ability to hold up in high winds is well worth the slightly increased weight. If one goes with a floorless tent, the weight issue isn't a concern.

I have used both 3 & 4 season tents for mountain camping. 4 season tents are more durable and hold up better in wind. The only drawback in 4 season tents is the cost & weight. My favorite is a Walrus 4 season that I use year round. It weighs in at 9 lbs. I camped once where it rained for three solid days with 10-20 MPH winds. I stayed warm & dry. The extra weight was well worth it. Good hunting!

I agree, I will not even own a 3 season tent as I have experienced very severe snowstorms here in July at less than 5000 ft. elevation. This happens enough that I don't take chances with my shelter, I only use the best and it pays off.

If, you want a serious, year-round hunting tent, I would strongly suggest the Kifaru tipis which also can be heated with wood stoves in really ugly weather. These are NOT cheap, but, they are worth it and I have bought a Six person for a base camp and a Paratipi for packing with me on multi-day backpack hunts. I think that they are superior to anything on the current market for most conditions and highly recommend them.

Inexpensive "backpacking" tents are usually a misery to live in for extended periods, even in "nice" weather; in harsh conditions it is torture and this comes from a lot of experience with many tents year-round. Buy a Kifaru and enjoy life!

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Which do you use if you "expect" just fall weather.

4 season tents are more $$ and weigh more. Is the extra margin worth it for an elk hunt in CO?

I have day hunted mostly for elk when I lived in Denver, only camped once (no backpack, just by the truck) and that was in a 3 season tent. 3 inches of snow, but no big deal. That said, there was always some dude from Texas that freezes to death in his jeans in CO hunting each year.

I like a good 4 season "Backpacking" tent that is convertible to 3 season.

Most will allow you to remove fabric panels to expose mesh in the main tent body for warmer weather and/or use only the fly combined with the ground tarp without the main body. In addition, many such tents have internal as well a external guy line options to use in high winds. I find these tents to be more flexible(pitching options) and more durable than 3 season tents.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay: Buy a Kifaru and enjoy life!

Ok, Kutenay tell an old time backpack tenter how you deal with no floor. The light weights of te Kifaru have tempted me, but I just struggle with the thought of no bathtub floor in really wet conditions. How do you keep your stuff dry - particularly your bag and pad? Do the tipis sleep colder than a typical tent?

Antlers,

Piece of Tyvek, cut to fit your needs....light & waterproof.

Joe

Antlers, I do not really bother with a floor cloth of any type and never have in many years of tarp camping; I put my bag on my pad on my Ridgerest on the ground. I keep my gear in my pack and my wood is stored, at my semi-permanent "base camps" in contractors garbage bags, it's cut the summer before the season.

Actually, I have found many bathtub floored tents to be wetter than the Kifaru and other pyramid/tipi type tents because of water getting inside the tent and not being able to get out. For some things, I prefer a floored tent and an Integral Designs unit is on my "list" to replace the North Face VE-24 I gave to my nephew....when my bank account recovers from the equipment upgrade I did during the past year.

I admit, when I ws talking to Patrick Smith on the phone some years ago and he told me of his forthcoming ultralight tipis, I was pretty sceptical; I have used a lot of gear and heard a lot of bullshit, one of the reasons I suggested this forum was to avoid that. However, after quite some time investigating, I decided to try one, now have two and may well get a 12-man with Fourdog UL stove for extended trips up north.

Got to 24Hr's backpacking section where Ovis has a photo of his setup; I honestly doubt that a better "base camp" system can be had anywhere and, if it works in Alaska or northern B.C., it will handle any conditions anywhere else. I do honestly think that floorless, woodheated tipis such as Kifaru's are generally warmer/dryer than most floored tents and easier to transport, as well.

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
Actually, I have found many bathtub floored tents to be wetter than the Kifaru and other pyramid/tipi type tents because of water getting inside the tent and not being able to get out.

I agree. I always carry a kayaking bailing sponge w/ my bathtub floored tents. The sponge weighs nothing and takes up no space yet will absorb almost 1 quart of water each swipe.

Gary

Joe, can you post pics of your setup here?

Nevermind Joe, I found your pics on the 24hr site. Is that a 12man Kifaru tipi? Do you have a link to the 4dog stoves?

Antlers,

That's a twelve man....all up w/stove(Ultralite 1) less than 20lbs and there's lots of room, I mean lots.

www.fourdog.com is the link....if you're going w/a smaller tipi ask them about their Bannerman stove...it's not on the website, unless they've just added it...my next project will be a TiGoat stove boot installed in a Golite Hex shelter with the 4D Bannerman....I haven't used the Bannerman but their titanium stoves are great pieces of gear....spendy, but you only buy them once.

Joe

try using a hammock (www.hennessyhammocks.com) has a cold weather setup. have used the hammock in tropical climates. comfortable and light weight. better than a tent. the cold weather systems has gotten great reviews.

Those probably would work well in heavy timber, but, a lot of backpack hunting here require camping above timberline. They are a neat rig, though, and I would like to try one.

The hammocks can be set up on the ground, like a tent, with trekking poles and some extra stakes for above treeline camping. They can also be tied to rocks, terrain permitting...Rusty.

Take a look at Mountain Hardware's EV-2.

Phil

dang--it's been awhile since I've been to the Kifaru site--the tepee's are something to really think about--weight is awesome compared to my EmpireCanvasWorks tent, which I thought was light--ability to have a stove--did I say weight was awesome--I'm impressed---now I have something else to think about concerning tents---chris

As a less expensive option, the Black Diamond Megamid is a good light tipi style tent, and reasonably priced. It's rated as a 4 man, but I'd call it a 2 man hunting tent. I'll be adding a stove jack and small 4 dog titatnium stove to it. Thus for about $500 I'll have a sub 10# heated tent.

I also use tyvek for a floor tarp, it's light and when it gets too trashed, all I have to do is cut another piece.

I second the black diamond megamid. It's size to wieght ratio is better than most. Set up is easy. Mine has experienced and prevailed in some extreme weather.
I'd be interested to see how you do the stove set up.

I was going to go with one of the ti-goat mini stoves, but after Ovis' comments on the 4dog and that they've come out with a mini one, that settled it for me. To-goat does have a stove jack for ~$30, and as I recall a local tent shop quoted about $30 to install it. I'm planning to put the jack opposite the door side in the middle of side, inline with the center post. I'll have to set it up once I get the stove to fine tune the location.

The megamid will definately get perforated from cinders as I learned one year when setting up too close to the campfire, so a spark arrestor is a must! Seam seal does the trick for sealing the pinholes though. The ti-goat folks claim no spark arrestor is needed with their stove, a comment I was very leary of.

I've used black diamond gear for years, and it's always been good tough stuff, though a daypack I've had isn't as good as I would have liked.

I must admit that I am a little leary of cutting a hole in the tent.

If I was hunting late season ie, might have high winds and a heavy snow load I would go for a 4 season tent. After all your tent and your sleeping bag can become your survival/life support system if the weather turns bad.
Thus, all of my backpack tents are 4 season.

quote:

Originally posted by jtinidaho:
I must admit that I am a little leary of cutting a hole in the tent.

Relax! Tents are just holes sewn together!!!

The utility of having a stove in your tent far outweighs other concerns.

Used a Kifaru 8man as a base camp up in Ab a couple years back. The floorless design was an eyeopener to a confirmed ground sheet user.

Being able to walk in, covered in snow, undress in comfort, hang wet kit up in the hot apex to dry - then sit in shirt sleeves with an outside temp of -25 convinced me of the utility of the tipi design.

Bought one - picked up the large stove at same time!

Great kit

Rgds Ian

quote:

Originally posted by IanF:

quote:

Originally posted by jtinidaho:
I must admit that I am a little leary of cutting a hole in the tent.

Relax! Tents are just holes sewn together!!!

The utility of having a stove in your tent far outweighs other concerns.

Used a Kifaru 8man as a base camp up in Ab a couple years back. The floorless design was an eyeopener to a confirmed ground sheet user.

Being able to walk in, covered in snow, undress in comfort, hang wet kit up in the hot apex to dry - then sit in shirt sleeves with an outside temp of -25 convinced me of the utility of the tipi design.

Bought one - picked up the large stove at same time!

Great kit

Rgds Ian

I just bought the exact same setup - 8 man tipi and large stove. I'm anxious to get it in so I can use it although my reports won't be at -25 for springtime texas camping.

Tipi's don't look like they would do very well with high winds. Any experience?

Duckear,

I've had my 12man tipi in wind in excess of 60mph and haven't had a problem.....however, a heads up.....if you have a Kifaru tipi, take a good look at the stove jack and see if it is an older model, single layer type....we had one come to pieces, as if rotten, in its third season, but never having a stove pipe in it..this caused the structural failure of the tipi...Kifaru fixed, no charge, but it was not a good thing to happen as it was a bad wind and snowstorm and we were very remote w/no chance of help....could have been bad if we hadn't been prepared.....my 12man has a different, heavier duty jack that I will be keeping an eye on....the lady I talked to said this had happened to a number of them but the problem had been taken care of.....

Let me state I'm not bad mouthing Kifaru in any way.....just a heads up on a problem that could be serious....

Wind is no problem for any of the tipis.....I use them now for all my applications.

Joe

ALL
Check out Stephenson Warmlite tents..
WWW.Warmlite.com. Could be the Backpacker tent for you.
AK

quote:

ALL
Check out Stephenson Warmlite tents..
WWW.Warmlite.com. Could be the Backpacker tent for you.
AK

I have a Stephenson Warmlite 3R tent (3-man) that I bought for my 2001 climb of Denali. This tent has served me on several hunting trips as well as winter backcountry ski trips in Alaska. The good things about the tent are: Very light weight, packs down very small, tons of room inside, good resistance to high winds, good moisture/condensation properties.
Some of the bad: Not freestanding (needs min 8 stakes to set up), no vestibule for cooking, expensive, freaky naked hippy website.
I think a tent for hunting all depends on how the hunt is conducted. I have taken this tent on a Dall sheep hunts where I carried all my stuff for 7 days of hunting in my pack up and down the mountains. This is where the Stephenson tents shine with their lightweight and packability. My last hunt was a caribou/grizz drop off hunt and I used the Stephenson for that. However since I only had to move my gear from the float plane about 50 yards, the light weight/packability was a non-issue. I would rather have had a heavier tent with more of the creature comforts and a vestibule.
I have been intrigued by the Kifaru/Megamid tents, but have been a little leery about using a tent with no floor in the snow here in Alaska. From listening to some of you I might have to give them a try this fall/winter. (anybody used them on snow?)

Erik
Two questions.. Have you ever looked at Playboy..
With your experience .. What would be {if you had another choice of tents}a wise investment for the backpacker/hunter with AK on one's mind..
AK

akrange,

I would look at the Hilleberg Tents

I like their tunnel design with the huge vestibules. Good area for gear storage, cooking and hanging out in the rain.

And yeah, I have glanced at a Playboy once or twice

Erik
I thought you would suggest the Hilleberg tents..
They have great reviews..
How about www.lightisright.com
Oh,I'm a Heathen somethimes too..
AK

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Which do you use if you "expect" just fall weather.

4 season tents are more $$ and weigh more. Is the extra margin worth it for an elk hunt in CO?

That said, there was always some dude from Texas that freezes to death in his jeans in CO hunting each year.

I have camped in my 3 season Eureka tent down to -5 degrees and 3 feet of snow...it was cold, but we kept dry.

This dude from Texas knows better to hunt in bad weather in jeans! The CO folks sure do seem to take TX dudes's $$ without complaint!

Some people seem concerned about the extra weight and waterproofness of 4 season single skin tents. These ones dont seem that heavy;

www.bibler.com

they are made from "todtex"(goretex type). They have a fuzzy surface moisture wicking 3rd layer and are fully seam sealed.
If you got da money, I would consider putting it on one of these.

In strong winds,The FITZROY holds its ass to the ground like no other.

A few have expressed concerns over no floor in their tent. I can understand why.

For several years and for months at a time, spring, fall, and winter, I have used floorless tents or a tarp
What I do, is cut down a smaller spruce or pine tree and drag the whole thing over to the spot where I am going to set up my tent or tarp. I cut all the bowes off of it right there, then throw the pole away. I may even cut two trees down. All I know is I have a good pile of spruce bowes to lay my thermarest on. In winter, I just pack the snow down first(obviously.)
This is no big secret. I have seen others do this, except they go cut a few branches here and there and haul them over to thier tent after it is set up. Takes too much time. I haul the whole tree before I set up my tent and it takes only minutes to get a good matress.
I look for a spot with some slope to it. Head at the top. You get good drainage and less water under your tent. I see others always looking for that flat spot. The drawback to the slope is that if I don't have my matress built up right, in the morning I find my self at the bottom of the tent. I put my bag or gear at my feet to let me know if I am sliding down to much in the night. More spruce bowes under my feet usually keep my position.
If I have the room, I have a piece of water proof canvas about 3'X7' that I lay down. Do not use it often. Pine or Spruce bowes. Not a new discovery.
If I am camping far above treeline, a piece of Tyvek or plastic tarp is what I use.
Either way, I am comfortable and DRY.

Daryl