This year deer hunting and at work I watched alpacas, llamas, horses and a bunch or goats being used to pack....there was even two Burnese Mtn dogs.

What have you used?

Only me, only me...

I thought the goats were interesting. One big buck in quarters on each goat.

Although I am no cowboy, my great-grand father and grand-father, as well as uncles and cousins were, I have seen enough problems with horses in the past that I am 99% sure I will never use one hunting on my own. LLamas on the other hand I would strongly consider if not to much trouble lagisticly to rent.

At present my pack is my only pack animal.

I love horses and mules, but own neither. The alpacas were strange because they are lanky and smaller than llamas, but the goats and the two big dogs were the best. The goats with a buck all portioned out so they could carry it was cool looking.

I think if you study it, you'll come to the conclusion that pack goats are the way to go. We had three goats a few years ago intending to pack them and then life got in the way. I am looking to get into it again. Goats are low maintenance, docile, tough, durable, strong (a mature, well-conditioned goat weighs 200+ lbs. and can pack 25% of its body weight [i.e., 50 lbs.] all day long on any trail.) Proper pack goats are bonded to people and will thus follow you on the trail without a lead rope and once you camped, they will not leave. (Unlike horses, you don't have to hobble them. Ever chased your horse pack string back to the trail head? I have!!) Feed costs are low, maintenance is low (they need periodic worming, hoof trimming, etc.) and gear is simple, inexpensive and easy to store. With two mature goats you could easily pack 50-60 lbs between them and then pack out 40-50 lbs of meat on the goats and pack out another 50 lbs yourself. I think two mature goats would be a great set up to access the high country for a middle aged guy who doesn't want to risk a heart attack to get into the backcountry.

The man I assistant guided for on the south side of the Brooks used pack dogs. This was in the '60s & 70's. He had custom made packs made for them and each one could haul about 30 lbs. or so. They'd carry their own dog food plus other items as necessary. When we crossed the river, we had to remove the packs until they were all accross. They were pretty well trained and stayed with you quite closely. They were a real help.
Another guide used mules every year to pack in his camps. He used the haul road as a jumping off point then go east for about 200 miles. As far as I know, they too worked out pretty good. Bear in Fairbanks

I used llamas a few times many years ago. The problem with llamas is that you need two or three llamas to equal what one horse or mule can pack. Also, the little buggers are more stubborn than a mule. They usually will not travel as far as a horse can go per day. When then decide that they have had enough----that's it. they will not take step further---typical camel.

I used to own horses and hunted with them for many years (and little with mules)
love hunting with horses. They will take all of your time, very high maintanance as others have stated.

I have come across hikers using dogs, but it seems that the dogs are to limited---they mainly only pack their own food and nothing else. Maybe someone out there is breeding much larger dogs just for packing??? that could be cool!

the goat packing I have heard of but not witnessed it. It does seem like a great way to go, You wouldn't need to pack food for the goat, because a goat will damn near eat anything.

a word of caution, some national forests ban the use of domestic goats and llamas because the spread of disease to wildlife.

What have you used?

quote:

Originally posted by Jordan:
I think if you study it, you'll come to the conclusion that pack goats are the way to go. We had three goats a few years ago intending to pack them and then life got in the way. I am looking to get into it again. Goats are low maintenance, docile, tough, durable, strong (a mature, well-conditioned goat weighs 200+ lbs. and can pack 25% of its body weight [i.e., 50 lbs.] all day long on any trail.) Proper pack goats are bonded to people and will thus follow you on the trail without a lead rope and once you camped, they will not leave. (Unlike horses, you don't have to hobble them. Ever chased your horse pack string back to the trail head? I have!!) Feed costs are low, maintenance is low (they need periodic worming, hoof trimming, etc.) and gear is simple, inexpensive and easy to store. With two mature goats you could easily pack 50-60 lbs between them and then pack out 40-50 lbs of meat on the goats and pack out another 50 lbs yourself. I think two mature goats would be a great set up to access the high country for a middle aged guy who doesn't want to risk a heart attack to get into the backcountry.

quote:

Originally posted by quickshot:
The problem with llamas is that you need two or three llamas to equal what one horse or mule can pack. Also, the little buggers are more stubborn than a mule. They usually will not travel as far as a horse can go per day. When then decide that they have had enough----that's it. they will not take step further---typical camel.

I used to own horses and hunted with them for many years (and little with mules)
love hunting with horses. They will take all of your time, very high maintanance as others have stated.

I have come across hikers using dogs, but it seems that the dogs are to limited---they mainly only pack their own food and nothing else. Maybe someone out there is breeding much larger dogs just for packing??? that could be cool!

the goat packing I have heard of but not witnessed it. It does seem like a great way to go, You wouldn't need to pack food for the goat, because a goat will damn near eat anything.

Other partial Quotes:
but the goats and the two big dogs were the best.

Another guide used mules every year to pack in his camps. He used the haul road as a jumping off point then go east for about 200 miles.

200 miles is a long pack.

Very interesting discussion. For several years, in the late 80s through the mid-90s I did a lot of back country packing, and tried various critters. Started with llamas, and learned to loath them. Stepped up to donkeys and had a couple of small mules just a little bigger than the standard donky. The small mules were better than the donkeys, but the donkeys were magnificant packers compared to llamas, at least the llamas I worked with.

Then I stepped up to full size mules, and started riding them, and got thrown a few times before deciding to look for something more docile. I got rid of the mules and the outfitter I sold them to was very pleased with them, but he could manage them and I could not.

I used the money to buy two fjord horses, brothers. And they were just the ticket for me, for horse packing and riding in back country wilderness in colorado and Idaho. They could really pack a load, and were far more sure footed than they looked. When they finally grew up - 14.2 hands 1200 lbs each - tough boys, but gentle as a draft horse. I have many stories of their abilities which really surprised me. But I couldn't go as often as I needed to justify the overhead of horse ownership. I bought one more Norwegian, a mare that the vet said shouldn't breed again, thus I could afford her, and my geldings loved her. She packed and rode very well indeed, althought she spent most of her life making babies, with little training. If she crossed a difficult spot, creek, bridge or whatever - the boys followed as though they had been doing it for years. She was well over 20 years and they were just youngsters. There is no way those boys would go far from camp as long as she remained on the picket line, so I could let them roam free with no hobbels. If I got an early start, I could pack 20 miles a day without much worry, and still have time to set up camp, and enjoy dinner before daylight was far gone - in summer. I think they would pack much further if need be, but my ass couldn't take it. It really helped to get off and walk a ways sometimes to limber up.

The nice thing about the threesome was they all rode and all packed - made no apparant difference to them - so I switched out. Using special made saddle packs, and one decker pack, me and a friend could pack in and ride, and pack out one elk and switch off riding on the way out. I don't know what I would have done with two elk, but wish I had the chance to have found out.

Life moved faster than I could, and I had to change jobs, move, etc., so I sold all three of them - just when they were really getting good and I had all the gear necessary - truck & trailer, etc. Bummer. I seriously miss those horses. They were simply fantastic.

So, as said, the problem with horses is high maintenance, and cost. Real hay burners, and vet bills too, shoeing, etc. Gotta use um.

If I never see another llama that's Ok. I often think they would bar-b-que well.

Pack goats - maybe. They gotta be low maintenance, and as said they will stay around camp, especially if you keep some choice food close by. There is a lot to be said for traveling light, and the gear to haul them around is not so expensive as for horses. Goats can be hauled in a van or truck with racks, which would be much easier to deal with on skinny back country roads.

IMO, horses and mules are for the business outfitter, and those who have the skill, and are really serious about it. Of course they get the job done - if you can handle them. If you already own horses and love riding back country trails, heck you are already way more than half way there to some realy good packing. Look at going light, and packs that hang well on riding saddles. Learn packing skills. Look at it as a classic art form. Take some classes from an expert old timer.

KB

There is a guy in Alaska that is raising a pair of yaks as pack animals for sheep and moose hunting. They look like a great pack animal.

http://www.pristineventures.co...pl?b=cc,m=1242374458

There was a great story on kifaru.net about one of the guys using a couple of goats.

He had some cool pics.



Pretty amazing animals and the lowest 'overhead' of any pack animal you could own I would guess.



ETA Here's the link to the story and pics