Based on the Responses and Views statistics of another thread, its pretty obvious that how one starts a fire is a subject of considerable interest. And there are as many opinions about how to start fires as there are commenters . . . or so it seems.

But I'm curious. I myself have criteria which must be met before I'll consider a fire starting technique to be acceptable. For me, the only acceptable technique must be based on the assumption that water is my enemy, and that I can't escape my fire-starting materials from getting wet. That said, for myself, I require the following:

1) I must have a fool-proof source of heat. To me, this means that I can sink my "heat producer" in water, and it must function afterwards. I prefer a fire-steel, but wouldn't feel too under-gunned if all I had was a cigarette lighter of the right sort.

2) The substance I light can't fail because it's wet. I think both Vaseline impregnated cotton balls and Rutland fire squares fill the bill.

3) No matter which method of fire-starting I select, I'll need aluminum foil to start my fire on (this prevents steam from wet ground from extinguishing my fire).

4) My fire starting substance must burn for at least 5 minutes.

I'll soon be teaching a class on how to prepare yourself to survive in the woods, if you become lost or for other reasons unexpectedly must do so, and I'd love to have others share their ideas with me.

Thanks!

Brian

Since I don't have a fireplace I don't know for certain, but I have played with Georgia Fatwood several times at other folks' homes. Seems to me it is quite easy to get started... I was wondering if a sandwich bag full of Fatwood "curls" would work. The bag would be quite light, and whole 2 X 2" sticks just seem to ignite wonderfully easily.

Good question, here's my take.

1. must be completely water proof but since I'm carrying it in a waterproof container that might be a moot point.

2. Must burn long enough to get the local kindling to catch. Local kindling in some areas will take a lot longer to start than others. In Canada I doubt there is any place that you can't find local tinder that needs anything articicial to get it lit. In other words a flame from a match or lighter will get a fire going if you know how.

3. Must be available and useable with ONE HAND in case something happens to my "spare" hand. That means either a lighter with some kind of tinder or a blast match and tinder. Nothing else comes to mind that will work with one hand.

4. I'd easily forgo the tinfoil and use a base of wood, stone etc. I see the tinfoil as a gimmick of the inexperienced. Sorry don't mean to be rude but it's just how I think. If you can find firewood then you can make a base to make the fire on. Maybe someone could provide a scenario where that in't so, I'd be interested to hear it.

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Good question, here's my take.

1. must be completely water proof but since I'm carrying it in a waterproof container that might be a moot point.

2. Must burn long enough to get the local kindling to catch. Local kindling in some areas will take a lot longer to start than others. In Canada I doubt there is any place that you can't find local tinder that needs anything articicial to get it lit. In other words a flame from a match or lighter will get a fire going if you know how.

3. Must be available and useable with ONE HAND in case something happens to my "spare" hand. That means either a lighter with some kind of tinder or a blast match and tinder. Nothing else comes to mind that will work with one hand.

4. I'd easily forgo the tinfoil and use a base of wood, stone etc. I see the tinfoil as a gimmick of the inexperienced. Sorry don't mean to be rude but it's just how I think. If you can find firewood then you can make a base to make the fire on. Maybe someone could provide a scenario where that in't so, I'd be interested to hear it.

After reading your post, I think I'd add to what I said.

I totally agree with you about "one-handedness," and I'd recommend carrying a one-handed fire-starter too. In fact, I carry a couple of cigarette lighters in addition to a couple of firesteel/strikers in different locations.

I also carry stashes of fuel-starter (vaseline cotton balls or Rutland fire squares) in different locations.

Now I agree that one can often find fire starting tinder in the wilds. But when my life is on the line, I don't want to gamble on the availability or suitability of resources or worrying about obtaining them. So I'll go with Peter Kummerfeldt's on this one. (Peter directed the survival school at the Air Force Academy for a decade or so and believes passionately in vaseline cotton balls. They burn for up to 9 minutes, and are impervious to having been soaked in water).

I'm not in the least offended at your characterization of the use of tinfoil as being a "gimmick of the inexperienced" even though I'm not sure I understand exactly what your point is.

For me, the important issue is that it works! And it's easily accessible and fool-proof.

For people who aren't as experienced and knowledgeable as you are (I would concede I'm not for the sake of discussion), I feel it's important to make survival as simple and fool-proof as possible for those less experienced and knowledgeable than you are. ("Can be done" is not necessarily preferable to "is easily done.")

I think using aluminum foil (and accelerants like vaseline cotton balls and Rutland fire-squares) is simple and fool-proof.

Plus, aluminum foil may be easier to deploy with one hand than fashioning another form of fire base. And we agree that being able to accomplish important tasks with one hand is a good thing.

In fact, if our survivor has an injured lower extremity, it might be best to reduce the the number of trips necessary for him to gather things: it may be unavoidable for him to have to make 3 or 4 trips to gather firewood, but wouldn't it be better for him to not need to make yet another trip or two to gather the means to fabricate a fire-base?

I don't know that I have ever disagreed with Calgarychef(he is pretty sharp), but I disagree regarding the foil as a fire starter base.

Let's just say that a hunter is out after dark and finds that he is beginning to suffer from hypothermia. Oh, and his flashlight has gone dead(his daughter left it on....). Would you rather have a .001 oz piece of foil upon which to start your fire, of have to look for a suitable stone in the dark???

To me, the items in a backpacking EDC survival kit are the things that are cost efficient in benefit achieved for the energy cost of carrying them in the sense of being your own 'first response team' for moderate risk misadventures & worst case weather situations.
The energy cost of carrying a square of HD Aluminium foil relative to the energy required to expend on a natural alternative is one of the best cost/benefit items in my Backpacking EDC kit.
Disregarding the obvious energy benefits if you suffer an injury , the convenience & certainty that you don't have to find a natural alternative is absolutely worth it in my view.

I mean.......how many fractions of an ounce does that square of aluminium foil weigh for the convenience & certainty.

The only reason we carry vaseline soaked cotton balls is for the certainty that it will start a fire.
We could just rely on the match.
but we don't do that either, we keep the waterproof matches for the certainty that we have the means to start a fire if the more convenient lighter malfunctions.

We can go overboard on the basic survival equipment kit & we can go under prepared.
The balance is in the cost/benefit of the items we carry in that kit to provide the basics of survival when things go wrong.
Its not there for planned everyday backpacking use..........you might use some of those items for everyday use , but thats not why its in your kit........or should be in your kit.

I think the vaseline cotton balls or those lil' white fire starter cubes are the bomb and I always carry the vaseline cotton balls.

The foil certainly doesn't weigh anything so why not carry it? I'd probably save it for melting snow in or one of the thousand uses it's good for. And yes I'd even use it for fire starting if the chips were down.

At our classes we always tell the students to use a film canister for their matches because they can be opened easily. Those little metal match safes look neat but aren't very waterproof and not easy to open with one hand.

As an aside Mors Jakanski coaches his students to do the test of touching the thumb to the little finger. If you can't do that you'd better start a fire because soon you won't have enough dexterity to get one going.

I've been so cold that the only option I had was to keep walking to the truck because I was beyond being able to help myself in any other way. When I did reach the truck it was a hell of a job to get the key into the door. Good thing I'd hidden the key under a lump of snow because I was too cold to dig it out of my pocket. That kind of thing really wakes you up and makes you realize how easy it is to freeze to death if you can't help yourself any more.

good discussion stuff!

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:

[ . . . ]

As an aside Mors Jakanski coaches his students to do the test of touching the thumb to the little finger. If you can't do that you'd better start a fire because soon you won't have enough dexterity to get one going.

I've been so cold that the only option I had was to keep walking to the truck because I was beyond being able to help myself in any other way. When I did reach the truck it was a hell of a job to get the key into the door. Good thing I'd hidden the key under a lump of snow because I was too cold to dig it out of my pocket. That kind of thing really wakes you up and makes you realize how easy it is to freeze to death if you can't help yourself any more.

good discussion stuff!

The loss of dexterity due to cold is a very important consideration. A couple of years ago, we searched for a guy who (fortunately) was found safe after having spent one night in the wilds. He had a lighter, and there was tinder available, but his hands were so cold he couldn't work the lighter.

I carry both a lighter and firesteel/striker (well, a couple of each, in different locations). That way, I can start a fire with the lighter if I lose the use of one hand, or (hopefully) with the firesteel if I lose a lot of dexterity in both hands.

Lots of times I carry a small road flare in my pack. They make starting a fire a snap. I've never been in a life or death situation where I had to break it out but it is a piece of gear that helps take your mind off worrying about being able to start a fire. Strike it and stick it in the tinder.

Like many others, I carry the vaseline soaked cotton balls. I also carry a lighter, matches, a magnesium fire starter, a small flint and steel and a couple small candles. All of this plus the road flare fits in a quart ziploc bag with plenty of room to spare. And the bag can come in handy too. If I can't get a fire going then I'm seriously in a hurt locker.

The question was what CRITERIA is important with firestarters, not what do we carry. Thats been well covered in the other thread.

When you are talking about Vaseline/petroleum jelly soaked cotton balls, how much Vaseline do you put on the cotton balls..? Do you just carry in a ziplock bag..?

Work the vaseline into the cotton until it won't take anymore. Don't make the cotton into a lump of vaseline that you can't see the cotton fibers in but make sure that the vaseline seals the cotton so it can't absorb water. Snack bags if you have them in something else or film canisters if you can find them now a days.

quote:

Originally posted by AzGuy:
When you are talking about Vaseline/petroleum jelly soaked cotton balls, how much Vaseline do you put on the cotton balls..? Do you just carry in a ziplock bag..?

The best way that I have found to make them is to heat a bit of petroleum jelly until it liquifies(in a piece of foil held over a heat source) them pour this into a film canister until it is about 1/2 full. Then stuff some cotton balls into the canister. The cotton balls into the canister and they will soak up the liquified petroleum jelly. You can pour more PJ in if you need to at this point.

In trying to come up with some "impromptu" emergency fire starters(for those times you find that you don't have any of the fire starting stuff that we should all be carrying) I found two interesting alternatives:
-Hair with a bit of Chapstick(or petroleum jelly) rubbed in. This stuff starts right up with the smallest spark, ant it burns long and hot. And, before some ds points it out, yeah I know that burning hair stinks. Remember this is for emergency use.
-Cotton with Chapstick or PJ rubbed in. just trim of a piece of your undershirt and rub in some Chapstick. It burns like a candle.

4 0 steel wool will light even if it is wet.

i live in a rainforest sometimes 200 inches rain a year. i use a small can of sterno, only takes a spark to light , wind cant blow it out, when fire is started put lid back on, but since a sterno can will leak over time i seal it with silicone around the lid.

purell