https://www.outsideonline.com/...-be-designed-hunting


Link has drawings, photos and story of the new boot line.

I have two pairs of Scarpa boots among the dozen pairs of mountain boots in my closet. They are among my favourite makers and these are very interesting, although Meindl and Lowa, and others have offered the gaiter system as well.

The comments about hunters "setting off alone" into the mountains, "unsupported" are just BS as NO sheep hunting without a legal guide is allowed in BC, Alberta or Canada's northern territories.

So, I would be cautious about Hairston's claims.

He is in litigation with Eastmans Journal for not paying his bills.

I asked him once at SCI about the lengthy backorders and his reply to me was "Well that's good for me and bad for you I guess".

Not what I would ever say to a customer.

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
https://www.outsideonline.com/...-be-designed-hunting


Link has drawings, photos and story of the new boot line.

Some hiking boot brands already have models designed for hunters. Lowa and Meindl's for instance have their higher topped boots that are marketed as hunting boots in Europe. It's only here in America that they get renamed as off trail hiking boots.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I asked him once at SCI about the lengthy backorders and his reply to me was "Well that's good for me and bad for you I guess".

Not what I would ever say to a customer.

I don't really understand what his problem is, he built Kuiu to fight against Sitka when he sold Sitka to Gore Tex.

If I built a product, and then sold the company I doubt I would launch a rival company, just to fight against the company I originally sold.

I know he got something like $10-30,000,000 plus for selling Sitka.

So why launch a rival outfit? Why not just go hunting, and maybe find another business to get into.

What I really don't understand is why they run Kuiu so poorly.

Multiple times I have met people that are wearing a Kuiu jacket, and everything else is not Kuiu because they don't fit any of their lines. These aren't people that weigh 500 pounds, they are just 20-30 pounds over weight and wearing Kuiu.

Weird dude.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
He is in litigation with Eastmans Journal for not paying his bills.

I am not sure that is true. Isn't the litigation over Eastman overstating the number of people who read their publication?

I just checked. Kuiu is suing Eastman for fraudulently overstating the number of subscribers.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I asked him once at SCI about the lengthy backorders and his reply to me was "Well that's good for me and bad for you I guess".

Not what I would ever say to a customer.

I don't really understand what his problem is, he built Kuiu to fight against Sitka when he sold Sitka to Gore Tex.

If I built a product, and then sold the company I doubt I would launch a rival company, just to fight against the company I originally sold.

I know he got something like $10-30,000,000 plus for selling Sitka.

So why launch a rival outfit? Why not just go hunting, and maybe find another business to get into.

What I really don't understand is why they run Kuiu so poorly.

Multiple times I have met people that are wearing a Kuiu jacket, and everything else is not Kuiu because they don't fit any of their lines. These aren't people that weigh 500 pounds, they are just 20-30 pounds over weight and wearing Kuiu.

Weird dude.

I have never met the guy and I am not defending him.

IIRC, I read an article that indicated he got hosed in the Sitka deal and was ousted. I will see if I can find it.

I have heard other complaints about the sizing.

The following is an excerpt from an article I found. It sheds a little light on what happened with Sitka.

"Of course, even as Sitka took off there was drama. In 2009, worried about having enough capital to continue expanding, Hart and CFO Justin Faggioli decided to sell the company to Gore, against Hairston’s wishes. “We needed more money,” says Hart, whose job title is now product specialist. “They had more money.”

Hairston got a severance package, but it’s clear the sale left him raw. “I didn’t start Sitka to go work for somebody else,” he says, adding that the buyout was “the worst business deal I’ve ever seen.” In 2010, Hairston launched a competing hunting apparel company, Kuiu, named for the island adjacent to Baranof. The two are separated by an icy strait."

He has a counter suit against Eastmans. The original suit is against him for not paying his bills.

I knew Guy Eastman's grandfather, my great uncles, grandfather and father knew him pretty well as they were all in the guiding business in Wyoming in the 1960's and 1970's. I don't know Guy, or much about him, and I don't know a lot about this lawsuit.

Eastmans Journal has an excerpt about the lawsuit towards Jason on their website.

I did not know that. I have only read about the other suit.

I looked at the Eastman website. There is a hell of a lot of stuff on there. I don't know where to look for the Kuiu suit.

Interestingly, Sitka is now a sponsor.

I am not impressed with thin randling around the bottom of boots. After a while it gets cut and finishes up hanging off like a deer antler shedding velvet. If I buy another pair for mountain hunting, I might look for some robust kind of pacs with grippy soles and thick rubber above them.

http://blog.eastmans.com/eastm...g-inc-press-release/

Eastmans suit against Jason.

Thank you sir.

I had never heard of this side of the story until you brought it up. It will be interesting to see who wins.

Kuiu is either going to fail based on his mismanagement or he will be able to shift it to someone that can manage it.

I think he is a good idea guy, but his own vanity makes for stupid decisions.

Reading back he was the problem with Sitka. I'll try and find the article. The bottom line was the products were great, but the company wasn't the money maker he claimed it was. Gore bought it, and now they are doing well.

Sounds like he is the problem with Kuiu as well.

I have purchased a few Kuiu products at the shows.
IIRC a hat, rain suit, jacket, gaiters and bino case. They have all been shipped promptly. I received a hand written note each time telling me that they were happy to help me with any future needs. I was impressed.

I lost a small piece off a bino case. My fault. I told them so. They replaced it at no cost.

I have no idea if they have issues or not. In my limited dealings with them, I was happy.

On the other hand, I have also been happy with Sitka.

Those are some pretty extreme boots, especially the first pair. I'd argue all day those who mountain hunt punish their feet and legs more than those who backpack all over. I'm currently in the market for a new pair of hiking boots, mostly for hiking, but I'm looking at those who manufacture hunting and mountaineering boots. I'm sure if you drew a Venn diagram of hiking boots and hunting boots, there's a sweet spot in the middle for what most of us are after.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
https://www.outsideonline.com/...-be-designed-hunting


Link has drawings, photos and story of the new boot line.

Some hiking boot brands already have models designed for hunters. Lowa and Meindl's for instance have their higher topped boots that are marketed as hunting boots in Europe. It's only here in America that they get renamed as off trail hiking boots.

Lowa has a hunting line of boots in North America.

quote:

Originally posted by SNAP:
I have two pairs of Scarpa boots among the dozen pairs of mountain boots in my closet. They are among my favourite makers and these are very interesting, although Meindl and Lowa, and others have offered the gaiter system as well.

The comments about hunters "setting off alone" into the mountains, "unsupported" are just BS as NO sheep hunting without a legal guide is allowed in BC, Alberta or Canada's northern territories.

So, I would be cautious about Hairston's claims.

Residents do it all the time!

Sorry, should have specified that I was referring to only *non res* hunters in BC, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I asked him once at SCI about the lengthy backorders and his reply to me was "Well that's good for me and bad for you I guess".

Not what I would ever say to a customer.

I don't really understand what his problem is, he built Kuiu to fight against Sitka when he sold Sitka to Gore Tex.

If I built a product, and then sold the company I doubt I would launch a rival company, just to fight against the company I originally sold.

I know he got something like $10-30,000,000 plus for selling Sitka.

So why launch a rival outfit? Why not just go hunting, and maybe find another business to get into.

What I really don't understand is why they run Kuiu so poorly.

Multiple times I have met people that are wearing a Kuiu jacket, and everything else is not Kuiu because they don't fit any of their lines. These aren't people that weigh 500 pounds, they are just 20-30 pounds over weight and wearing Kuiu.

Weird dude.

Not taking a side but lots of people start competing lines after selling, either immediately or after their non-compete runs out. Pat Smith with Kifaru after he sold Mountain Smith. Dana with Mystery Ranch after he sold Dana Design. There are plenty others, but most are so small we don't hear much about them. There are several boot and shoe companies that have started this way as well.

From my tunnel vision/biased opinion "why not just go hunting", which I would do! : The people who started things that eventually get bought are entrepreneurs who don't like working for big companies, just isn't a good match, so they do what they've always done after the sale. Corporations send friendly people to set up the buyout, then sometimes bring in corporate "hats" who are undead at best. Not a good match. I can assure you, real entrepreneurs don't work well with youngsters or oldsters who've only taken entrepreneurship classes. If you have to take the class you're most likely not one. It would make a great reality TV show...the interactions are pretty fun.

$10 - $30M?? That would be stratospheric with valuations but sometimes it does happen.

Sizing is a riot. Been there: the skinny mountain people, runners, etc, set one size. Patterns are sent to graders who call back and tell them "this will not fit 90%" - then they're told to do it anyway. As pants, jackets get sent back because they don't fit - and money runs out - they learn and some companies add some girth for our guts, asses and thighs.

I'm glad the innovators keep innovating, pushes things in the right direction.

I have Sitka and Kuiu clothes. Kuiu is much lighter and most guides I have been with lately prefer Kuiu. In the beginning there was a huge supply problem but that has been taken care of. I think sales are very good so I doubt that they are going to fail.

quote:

Originally posted by SNAP:
I have two pairs of Scarpa boots among the dozen pairs of mountain boots in my closet. They are among my favourite makers and these are very interesting, although Meindl and Lowa, and others have offered the gaiter system as well.

The comments about hunters "setting off alone" into the mountains, "unsupported" are just BS as NO sheep hunting without a legal guide is allowed in BC, Alberta or Canada's northern territories.

So, I would be cautious about Hairston's claims.

I'm a mountain goat (amongst other species) outfitter and guide and also wear Scarpas. It should be remembered though the statement is likely accurate, though not perhaps from Jason's perspective, as the majority of sheep hunters are resident hunters of BC and Alaska.

I'm also suspicious of what Kuiu, Kenetrek, or anyone else could know about carrying loads across mountains on foot Scarpa hasn't already learned and designed for. Some gear just doesn't need to be reinvented "for hunting', it's already there by convergent evolution.

I know who you are and tend to agree, however, different boots fit different people and FIT is paramount.

My first pair of "mountain boots" were from Pierre Paris, of Vancouver, in 1961 and my first European boots were Galibier Super Guides in spring 1970. I have worn while working, often alone for up to 3 months in the mountains, most of the name brands and find Hanwags, Lowas, Scarpas and the original GERMAN Meindls, when Alphonse, was in charge all about equal in quality.

I still have a pair of original Galibiers which fit flawlessly and a guy in California sent me for postage as he could not use them, just like new and a pair of original Kastingers, a gift from my wife in 1981, used intensely in forestry, third soles and never a broken stitch.

You CANNOT now buy the boots we could in the 1960s-70s-80s and even big name customs are not equal, as my pair from that guy in Telkwa proved, falling apart in about two years........

So, I would not buy Kuiu, but might buy a light pair of Kenetreks as the owner is evidently a gung ho sheep hunter with some mountain experience.

When, I was fighting fire, BCFS, I would go through 2 pairs of boots every two seasons and start on two more.

Do you use Obenaufs LP for H20 protection.

Few guys put as many miles on boots as BCFS, definite respect there, and indeed many boots are relative junk now compared to proper hand made boots my father wore in the 80s. It's one of the few aspects of gear I look to the past with envy over. You used to be able to have a bespoke pair of boots, and for the equivalent of what we spend on scarpas etc now inflation considered.

My "light duty" and flying boots are Zamberlans, a excellent boot for the price, they've survived goat hunting and for a light boot that's saying something. Haven't tried the LP stuff, I should!