What usually is my main concern on backpack hunts is how to get the meat out. Of course I can worry and fret about the last ounce or two of weight reduction, optimize my gear until the cows come home, but that is all out the window when there's 200 lbs of sheep to be dealt with, or worse, it could be an elk!

I can easily do a 20 km hike into the backcountry, but suppose I manage to kill something!. An elk will take 6 trips at least. If he's dead on the ground 20 km (12.5 miles) from the nearest road, I'd be hauling meat for 10 days or so!!

How do you guys deal with that? Do you have a few willing buddies ready to hike in with you to haul the meat, or a packer with horses on call? Helicopter?

Frans

Frans I called almost every horse operation in the Canmore area. My request of course was "can I hire you to pack out a moose/elk." I never found one who was willing to do it. I mentioned that cost wasn't a huge deciding factor and they still weren't interested.

The chef

I don't see any problem in transporting meat for a guy who can easily do 20K jaunts in the backcountry. This is a hell of a hike, here in B.C. and even in my youth, when I worked in the mountains, where I was born and raised, this would be considered a Herculean endeavour.

It took me, age 29, five days to walk from Slocan, B.C. along the lakeshore and up to Evans Lake with a 45 lb. pack. This is about 20 miles return and is a brutal trek that most Kootenay people will not even attempt. The Beatrice Lake Trail on the other side of Evans Cr. is tough, but, bushwhacking the south side is much worse.

So, where is the problem? I can still, age 59, carry out a boned out deer plus my camp in one trip....slowly! It takes two men, two trips for a boned Elk, leave the ribs as the boned scraps from there sour too fast and this gives you two loads of 50 lbs. or so each, plus your gear.

You simply hunt within what your map tells you is your personal range relative to your physical abilities, I find 5-10K is enough to get into good game country. One good partner is great in Elk hunting, I would rather hunt deer alone and do. Don't pack out anything except the edible meat and trim your gear down to the absolute minimum, I will post my list tonight or tomorrow night, after my training hike.

Alright, maybe "easily" wasn't the right word, and I does depend on terrain obviously. If it means going straight up and down shale fields, and through thick bush, things slow down. But if you can follow river beds, cross the odd saddle, follow an old horse trail, find a game trail that goes in the right direction, yeah then 20 km is possible. The year I shot my ram I've done several 20+ km one-day scouting trips, targeting a few far-off high basins. But as I wrote in another thread, after a 20+ km day, I'm not good for anything else but sit and glass the next day. Also, most trips started off on well-defined trail which makes for easy going.

I'm a wee guy, with weak knees, and at 5'6", and 135 lbs, a full pack is pretty much all I can carry and still move. I certainly cannot pack a deer out in one go on top of that!

I know my limitations, frustrating as they may be at times, I was just wondering how you guys were dealing with this.

On the topic of taking boned out meat on multiple trips ... where do you put the tag, and when do you carry the meat that holds the tag? How do you deal with leaving evidence of sex when you carry boned out meat?

Frans

The boned out meat and antlers from one of our Columbian black-tails weighs 60 lbs. at the most. And it'll carry quite well in my old Gregory pack.

And use good tools and meat bags to do it right. I carry a couple Dexter Russell 5" boning knives and a compact Gerber bone saw with homemade game bags.

In B.C., the "tag" is actually part of your licence,so, there is no need to attach anything to the carcass. If, you have the antlers here, as you must, it is not required to leave sexual organs attached to the meat, so, I don't.

I would phone your nearest Conservation Officer to get specific advice on this and I would get his name and keep this along with the date/time of the conversation with me for reference, if stopped while packing meat. I worked for AB Environment, but, it was so long ago I can't remember every jot and tittle of the laws and I was AFS, anyway.

As to the 20KM, my point was to try to show how far this is in terms of backpacking game meat. I used to do 25 mile hikes in the West Kootenays in a single day, this with a light pack and on abandoned logging roads and old trails. But, packing Elk this distance is just not doable, especially in the W.K. and even on the East Slopes, this is too far.

Get your topo maps and PLAN each hunt as though you were on a do or die military mission; I do this and it enables me to cope with advanced middle age and heavy packs. I wouldn't shoot an Elk in an area that is too far to backpack it out and I have turned down monster trophies due to this, it's all part of the challenge.

As to being a ...wee guy with weak knees..., I was severely injured at age 14; orthopaedic specialists said I would NEVER be able to do physical labour, hike, hunt, blah, blah, blah...fuckem, I joined the B.C.F.S. at 18 and was a top firefighter, treeplanter and general bushwhacker for many years. AT 59, I still bushwhack in the harshest terrain in B.C. and will until I drop dead; it ain't how big you are, bud, it's how bad you want that mountaintop.......

Agreed, I was refering to the same thing... a dead elk 20 km in is just not doable. I wasn't suggesting that I was tougher or more able than anybody else, quite the opposite.

When it comes to carrying loads, there may be some advantage to being big and strong, as compared to small, but the mind-set makes up for a lot. Again no argument.

My knees are what they are, but they won't keep me off that mountain.

Frans (by the way, I hate bushwhacking with a vengeance; reaching the high country above the tree line is always the best part of every trip)

quote:

Originally posted by kutenay:
If, you have the antlers here, as you must, it is not required to leave sexual organs attached to the meat, so, I don't.

I would phone your nearest Conservation Officer to get specific advice on this and I would get his name and keep this along with the date/time of the conversation with me for reference, if stopped while packing meat.

Hey Kutenay, just to give you a heads-up, I found out the hard way this past fall that this is actually not the case. I recieved a nice present from a CO at a roadblock, a $115 "nuisance ticket" for not having the penis or testicles attached to the boned out meat of a deer. I had the head with antlers, but since it wasn't directly attached to a carcass that was in one piece, it apparently didn't count. New to me. The regas are a little confusing on this issue for sure! Just so you know.

cheers

Frans, I'm kinda like you, I am fairly small and lightweight sorta guy, and I also can do a fair bit of distance, but heavy weight can slow me down a lot. I'm 5'9" and 145#, but at least for now I have reasonably ok knees - I'm still a young whipper-snapper (34). My hunting partner and I have come up with a rough criteria for backpack hunt destinations - we try to limit ourselves to an area that is close enough that we could make 2 trips out and back in a day - i.e. out to the truck with meat, back to camp, and then back out again with gear. If we limit ourselves to ~ 4-5 km max, then we end up with a 12-15 km total pack to get out, with both trips. At the same time, we end up being close enough, that if we want to try it in one trip, we can split a boned out deer between the 2 of us and do it in one go without killing ourselves. The same criteria will work fine when you are on your own, as long as you can ferry your gear and meat in 2 loads.

I think the biggest factor is knowing what your personal weight limit is in the type of country you'll be hunting, and trying to keep your load within that range. I can backpack all day with 60 pounds, but I probably go twice as fast with only 50, and twice as slow with 75. This fall I packed out a muley buck in one go for ~ 2 km, and when I got home I weighed my pack - it came to just under 120 pounds. Ended up being a bit too close to my limit, but I made it out. I made the mistake of not deboning the hind quarters, in favour of speed (it was getting dark and cold pretty quick) - I think I have now learned that taking the extra time to shed a little more weight from the carcass (don't carry out ony bone!) will make up for itself once you start walking. The first backpack hunt I did with a friend a few years ago, we got a bit over-exuberant and hiked into the South Chilcotin for ~ 20km, with 3 creek crossings thrown in for good measure. Once we were in there for a few days, it began to dawn on us that we would have a one deer limit between the 2 of us, unless we wanted to take several days getting out!

I've never used meat bags. Can someone explain? I guess they are just cotton or muslin to keep the meat cleanish and allow it to breathe.

On another note when packing out large game you can--- take each hind quarter, leave the skin on it but peel it back a little. Cut 2 armholes through the skin to slip your arms through. Then wear the whole thing like a back pack. Honestly I've never done this but I know an "old newfie" who has done it lots. If there is a way to make something work just ask an "old newfie"

the chef

quote:

I've never used meat bags. Can someone explain?

Mine are light canvas and are hindquarter sized. Washable and reuseable.

The old trick of making a "packsack" out of part of an animal is used for primarily Caribou hunting, to carry a fairly light load over gently rolling terrain for relatively short distances. You cannot do this with an Elk or, expecially a Moose; trying it will simply waste time and energy as well as get you covered with blood and lymph, not a good idea in Grizzly country.

You need to use an appropriate pack, completely bone your meat and never carry anything in that is not absolutely essential. The gear to backpack hunt for several days in safety and comfort with a decent chance of success and then to carry your meat out in an edible form is expensive and this is not an "easy" sport.

If, you do not/cannot spend the money and time to get in shape and learn the "tricks of the trade", it would be better to concentrate on another form of hunting. My gear cost easily as much as a new quad, but, I love backpacking and I detest quads, so for me, the cost and sweat is worth it.

A "newbie" can get an idea of what is involved from forums like this, but, you need to start with dayhikes and work into multi-day trips, whether hunting, fishing, photography or whatever. Again, meticulous planning makes a huge difference in how your trip(s) turn out.

I understand your stance on quads. I use one in the fall to go for moose. It's a hell of a trip in-grueling isn't the word. Some people like quadding, to me it's just a way to get where you have to be. When I hit camp the quad gets turned off and there it stays. My buddies always tease me about my quad getting such great mileage-because it doesn't get used. I see much more walking than they do buzzing around.

the chef

Yup, I have lived in the bush for months, alone, in northern and western AB and trying to backpack a Moose there is bullshit, you could kill yourself! I don't like quads in Elk country as they really spook the animals and drive them into the WORST places to hunt, certainly in the Kootenays, but, for AB and some parts of B.C. they are definitely a big help for Moose hunting...if everyone had your attutudes, they wouldn't be a problem!

The old saying comes into play " Dont pursue & kill animals unless your fit enough to pack them out.There is another way.Contact a supercub pilot w/ tundra wheels.These small planes can land in some places you would never imagine.If your out 20 miles you may only have to pack your animal a mile or 2 to a place where a palne can land.I would do it no other way as have done this many time in alaska w/ moose ,caribou & bears.other than this way dont kill it if you cant pack it

Without the proper pack, even a small spike elk takes many, many trips...and one was almost too many...now with snow to slide the quarters on...No, DON'T ASK..."some" knowledge is a painful experience...Arthur Olds

Gidday Guys,

This is how you do it.

Well at least this is how I do it for about 5 hours but the I'm only 48.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Gidday Guys,

You will note that most superfluous parts (head, guts etc) are taken out before this is done.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Interesting, are the legs tied together? And if so how do you get the animal on your back? Can one person rig it up or do you need two people? Kutenay is going to loose his mind....Kind of hard to run from the bears like that For some areas though it looks like it will work well.

the chef

I have packed at least a dozen Columbian Blacktails out on my shoulders, with just the guts removed, but, we are talking about Elk and Moose? Here in B.C., almost all Elk hunting is restricted to 6-point bulls, which average about 800 lbs. live weight in Rocky Mtn. Elk and somewhat heavier in Rossevelt Elk. You will NOT carry the hindquarters of one of these animals in these mountains in that fashion as this would weigh about 175 lbs. and damned few men can pack that weight any distance, even when young and fit.

As to Moose, the hind quarter of a really nice bull will go 175-200 lbs. as shown, try hauling that for five hours, especially uphill through buckbrush, Devil's Club and Black Spruce regen. This is backbreaking, mindnumbing work even with the finest packs, as shown, it is impossible for any normal man.

Chef, don't run from bears, that pastry scent excites them and then they will bite your buns! Oh, and I lost my mind a long time ago.........I thought that was obvious!

Well yes we were talking about elk and moose. Hamish was kind enough to show how he does it with deer sized animals, I think it's interesting, and I thank him for his input! The more I can learn about anything that interests me the happier I am. I found a lot of moose sign up high in the kannanaskis this summer and the only thing that prevented me from going up with my bow was the thought that I would have to pack the damned moose out. I'd damned sure do it with an elk if it was a trophy animal. I'd never do it just for the meat-there would have to be big horns involved.

the chef

Gidday Guys,

In this instance the legs were tied together.

If you don't have twine to tie the legs you can use the front legs as a toggle through the hamstring. Just run a knife around the front knee being carefull not to cut the tendon which runs up the front then break the knee free.

Run this through the hamstring and violla a back pack stag.

That stag tipped the scales at 180 lb and needed a five hour carry back to the truck. I was rooted when we got there.

To get it on your back you get it set up on the ground where you can get lower than it like on the edge of a bank etc. Put you arms under the legs like a pack and stand up.

You do this each time you trip up, fall over or otherwise take a break. One man can do this easily????

It works and I can't count the number of times I have recovered deer like this while meat hunting in the 70's and 80's.

Just do it for my meat now.

Must say a Big Bear makes the job a lot easier if you can get it close enough.

Need to get out and do it again as I'm running out of meat and according to the Department of Conservation deer are over running the hills again. Bugger!!

No need to worry about bears here. The most dangerous thing we have here are my ex wives and I would rather tangle with a grizzly.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

I was just up in the Kanaskis this past Sept. and last June, for the first time in 40 years. I have done a lot of backpacking in that area and the Flathead as well during my years in forestry work. I used to carry a 10 Imp.Gal. steel cream can full of water on a Forest Service issue Trapper Nelson #3 packboard to Natal Lookout; I estimate the weight of this to be 135-150 lbs. and this was very tough sluggin' even for a young, fit man used to this type of thing.

A weight such as this will simply get you injured in country like that and even trying it is foolish, IMO. I am not tall, but, I am big and quite strong and can carry a two-point Muley on my shoulder, no problem; my whole point is that this is not a good idea in the conditions we hunt in here in B.C./AB.

With a REALLY GOOD pack, like a Kifaru LH or Mysteryranch, a fit, determined man can carry out about 1/3 of a thoroughly trimmed/boned bull Elk plus his emerg. gear. This is about 80 lbs. of meat plus whatever, so, the pack would weigh about 125 lbs. This is VERY hard work in mountain country and at 59, I can do it, but, I try for lighter loads.

I have read about guys who boast about packing 200 and more lbs. on hunting trips and I think that this is mostly chest thumping BS. I have never seen anyone do this in all my years of hunting/bushwork/recreation. My point here is NOT to denigrate anyone else as I want this forum to be a friendly, respectful sharing place; it is simply to give an experienced opinion so that "newbies" do not attempt things that may well injure them.

In an hour, I am going over to the North Shore Mountains for some solo "raincoast" hiking and I carry about 30 lbs. of gear, etc. for emergencies even there. They just pulled another kid's corpse out of there two days ago, lost, hypothermic, dead, so, when some yuppie jogger runs past me, with a condecending smile at the "old man" with "too much" gear, I just keep on hiking as I have done for 50 years....and I come home.

Thanks for reinforcing some of my prudence with your years of experience. I usually carry enough to sustain me and keep me dry and reasonably warm, at least overnight, even on what I intend to be a day trip. When I look at all the apparent untroubled minds, in shorts and runners, starting off on mountain trails with nothing more than a bottle of water, I sometimes feel a bit silly. But then I think, better silly than dead, and carry on.

Frans

I agree, I never go hunting-even a couple miles, without haveing my basic survival gear. I always carry enough to spend the night dry and warm. It gives me a sense of comfort knowing it's there. Last fall I damn near needed it and I was very glad it was there.

the chef

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:

quote:

I've never used meat bags. Can someone explain?

Mine are light canvas and are hindquarter sized. Washable and reuseable.

I just go down to the Sally Ann, and buy some old pillowcases (make sure they are cotton). Wash them very thoroughly several times, to make sure all traces of detergent are out. They are really handy as meat bags, cheap, and strong enough to hold a lot of weight. Once all my boned out meat is in the bags, I line my pack with a large garbage bag to keep it clean, and then put the pillowcases full of meat inside that. This keeps the pack relatively clean, and keeps the meat from sitting against the plastic. This works fine for reasonably short packs, up to several hours or so, and anyway, where I hunt it is usually fairly cool or cold so there isn't as much worry about the meat not cooling down - it is often pretty cooled down by the time it is cut up. I find that 5 pillowcases will do for a deer - the meat from each of the hind quarters in their own case, the backstraps and tenderloins in another, the front quarter meat in one, and all the extra trimmings, neck meat, etc. in another, with one left over for whatever else. Everywhere that I hunt with a pack on (which is getting to be more and more often, the more that I find that I ain't built for dragging deer) I have these 5 pillowcases, the plastic garbage bag, and some flagging to tie the pillowcases off (and to put labels on - sometimes boned out hunks of meat can be confusing once they are sitting on the table ready to be cut up!). Works fine for me, so far.