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I live here in Bear country every day. In my opinion you should carry the biggest thing that you can shoot very well!! Something that you have shot many many times. When ever you see your first Grizzly Bear up close and personal you WILL reconsider all of your previous choices for a weapon! JM2CW Ignore your rights and they will go away! | |||
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Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the good discussion. I scored a new production 480 Ruger SRH which I hope to work up in the not too distant future. I must say I'm intrigued with the Single Action options but, those will have to wait for the time being. Best Regards, Sid All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it. Alexis de Tocqueville The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. Alexis de Tocqueville | |||
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Great gun, enjoy it! "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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Random thoughts... I have spent a lot of time in black bear and grizzly country, and a little time in brown bear country... IMHO I would not want any handgun that kicked more than a 44 mag with @ a 300gr hard cast bullet... I have killed bear, dear, pigs and even a turdey with a 475 Linebaugh. It is one thing to shoot a very hard kicker when Hunting, quite another to shoot one with your hand/wrist in an awkward position... If you doubt me on this, then do the following. Go to the range and shoot your BIG Gun with your wrist bent at 90 degrees, as you might have to do if knocked down by an animal of any kind... Shoot the gun empty IF you can... There IS too much of a good thing... As to single action vs double action, No doubt in my mind the DA is "mo betta", but well handled the SA might save you as well... I will also state this, the wife and I have been snuck up on by bears a few times. Trust me you will NOT hear them... If they want to "touch you" they will... Lucky for us, they just wanted to "talk"... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Here is my random thought. If you are in bear country and want to carry a revolver made damn sure you carry it everywhere, and I mean everywhere. My closest brown bear encounter was as follows: We were on a fly in moose hunt near Beluga Lake and woke up and enjoyed a lazy breakfast and some coffee. The lake was only about 10 yards from our tent and I walked down to rinse out the coffee pot and a very slight noise got my attention off to one side of me. I looked over and there was a 8 1/2 foot bear about 10 feet away chewing on the nylon pot scrubber we used to wash pots and pans. We made eye contact and he skedaddled out of there. I was a lot younger and thought it was cool. Now looking back I realize how lucky I was. They call them sidearms for a reason and never let them leave your side while in bear country. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Have you ever shot a 480? Having shot quite a few 44's, 454's, 475's and 500's, and having owned a 480 for over 10 years and putting over 5000 rounds through it I can say with some experience that the 480 with 400 gr @ 1200 fps. While numerically it's ~30% more powerful than the 44 pushing a 300 gr 1300 fps with the same powder charge, in my hands the recoil is in the same ballpark. On the flip side I've fired enough 475's and 500's to know that the 5-7 gr more powder they burn and extra ~150 fps comes at a cost in recoil that I personally cannot tolerate and still shoot accurately. Try a 480, you just might like it. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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I carry a handgun in bear country when not hunting, doing camp stuff, lying down in tent and so on. While out of camp I carry my rifle. The handgun is a super rabbits foot that is actually useable for self-defense and signaling (not the best choice for the latter but life happens). Sidearm at your side is the right answer everywhere appropriate. Small bores penetrate with sectional density. Big bores make big holes. I may chop my SRH 480 Ruger to 5.5 inches for camp use. I'll look like Hans Solo on Star Wars with a Red Dot on a stubby! | |||
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Love the post and the genuine input by all. Here are my thoughts.. ALWAYS have a gun with you. A .22mag with solids is better than a monster handgun that is in the tent being stored after a couple of days of hunting because it got too heavy or inconvenient. A predator will not give you time out to retrieve it. Any gun is better than nothing. Try to have the best gun that matches your ability . One of the fastest pisteleros with a single action revolver is Bob Munden in Montana. His feats are amazing and he stated :" If I have to carry a revolver strictly for SELF DEFENSE against brown/grizzly bears. I would carry a double action revolver such as the stout Ruger Redhawk with the 5" barrel using the right bullets". Who am I to challenge his skill. You always have to prepare for the worst case scenario. A serious bear meant on mayhem will blindside slam you like a freight train sideways into the ground he will attack any movement usually your flailing arms. He will swipe and pin you down with his 20 claws/knives/clamps and weight while he chews and bites on you by shredding tissue and snapping bones like small twigs. The more you scream the more he gets turned on. He will shake you like a rag doll trying to deny you the opportunity to get it together to fight back. He will try to break your neck to paralyze you and scalp you. That's where having a large head that is too big for his jaws comes in handy. Jokes aside. If you are lucky to be able to use your hand gun you have to be able to use the non injured hand/arm and access your firearm. A cross chest or cross draw holster is worth a million. It has to have strong retention and not have the gun flying off from the impact ending up helpless. A hand gun that does not cycle after the first round in an automatic due to cycling distance limitation of the slide, will be a single shot handgun period. If you want to hedge your bet on always seeing the bear in advance and be ready, then an auto such as the Glock 20 will be adequate. I am not not. A single action has the limitation of having to cock the hammer every time. You can do it single handedly, but you have to constantly change your grip not a good scenario with a stout hand gun with similar loads during a battle for your existence. A double action with a 6-8" barrel is difficult to maneuver, wield, balance and shoot one handed in close proximity. A short barrel of 2" or less loses excessive amount of velocity, increases barrel whip, noise and effectiveness degrades towards a lower caliber grade. A .454 in a stub of a barrel is not much better than a .45 colt. A happy starting medium is a .44 mag. with a 4"barrel with quality bullets. Believe me not all bullets are created equal. I had 260grain Corbon hollow points that disintegrated on impact they are a detriment to your health. I used their 300grain solids with total satisfaction. I cannot predict the angle, direction of movement, bullet path and time available for precise target acquisition. Skimping on bullets is the last thing you want to do especially considering the circumstances. Having quality sights that will help you attain fast target acquisition in low to no light on dark bears is also part of the equation. I have settled on XS big dot sights and have them on all my self defense hand guns. NO regrets. It all comes down to our ability to master the tools we need. By getting educated in all aspects and making the right decisions that we can live with, literally. By the way I do love the .480 Ruger but have no experience with the 460S&W. Having a dependable hunting partner with courage under adverse conditions with a rifle is your best bet for survival. Safe hunting. | |||
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For me this isn't a theoretical exercise. Having defended myself against brown bear with revolvers. . My problem with the 500 Smith is with full house ammo. Just too much recoil for 1 handed use. The 480 Ruger 400+gr loads at 1200 fps are doable double action. The 500S+W is the only hand gun that I have experience with that has true bear rifle type smack down on large charging brown bear . . It just tears the hell out of them. . But you need to have your $#!+ in one sock to handle one. The 480 I can wrap off a cylinder full double action and control the gun. The 460 has impressive ballistics but your back to burning a huge amount of powder. Since I don't currently live in thick bear country I carry a G20 and call it good. And I will emphasize that a rifle in hand is faster to get off a shot than a handgun in a holster. . Generally more accurate also. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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I would opt for the 480 in a heart beat over the 460. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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A hand gun and load that one can control and hit with is better then a monster one you can not. A hard cast heavy for caliber bullet at a moderate vel well shoot through several feet of bear. | |||
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As would I. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I always prefer the larger club. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
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I definatly 2 nd this. The first time my dogs Jules and Oscar saved me from a mauling I did not have a gun on me. . I had been milling lumber with my Alaskan mill. It had a hopped up 394 Husky on it for a powerhead and the muffler was triple ported. It was LOUD. I had finished a cut, packed the mill back to the start end of the log. Packed the plank I had just sawed back to the horses. Came back and opened the fuel and oil caps on the saw to refuel. I heard a piece of gravel roll and looked up, there was about a 7 1/2' bore brown bear studying me, totally out in the open. 20-25' away I stood up and looked at him and things went into slow motion. I could se Jules sneaking up on the bear but the bear was looking at me so he didn't se her. Oscar was laying in the grass 10' away. I saw the light in the bears eyes change and his foot came up to start the charge. Jules looked at Oscar quickly and made a little noise in her throat turned back to the bear and launched herself. The bear was a full step into his charge but looked toward Jules who was now less than 10' from the him. I couldn't see Oscar at this point as my vision had tunneled down. The last thing I saw was the bear turning away as Jules teeth snapped closed just shy of fur. I turned and made it the 30+' to my rifle in about 4 bounds. . . The brush the bear took to was fairly thick. I could hear the fight going away from my as the dogs would drive the bear. I torched off a round in the air and said several bad words at the bear. In about 10 minutes the dogs were back looking VERY pleased with themselves and very healthy. They got lots of treats!! I put my little Ruger Bisley Cowboy 4 5/8" in the back pouch of my tool belt and when I took the tool belt off the pistol went in my back pocket or in its holster on my pants belt. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Those 2 dogs loved running and me killing brown bear as much or more than I did. Oscar went on to save my wife and I from being mauled more than 3 more times. Every time after that we were armed but we weren't able to get a shot into the bear and/or shot the bear as it was charging. Anyone that wants real life experience killin bears with different firearms. And lots of other real life bear adventures. Just move to someplace that is over run with bears and try to make a living in a natural resource extraction based job. . Like Pre Commercial Tree thinning on the coast. Or prospecting for gold or falling timber. . May not be politically correct but you can sure figure some things out.. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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Great story! Thanks for sharing. What breed were the dogs if you don't mind me asking? They are definitely man's best friend as far as I am concerned. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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They were village dogs from Kake . German Shepard, Kupreanof Is.wolf and golden retriever . Oscar was the single greatest dog I've ever been around. . Jules I had to send home early as she started going wild and running deer. . But she was an awesome dog also . She had more of the wolf gene in her than O did. Oscar died 2 winters ago at almost 13 years old. . Not a day goes by that I don't miss him. I think I learned more from him than he did from me. He more than paid his bill in full. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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They sound like they were great dogs! Thank you much for sharing that. Do you have any dogs now? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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We're down to one now. Gonna keep it that way until after we move and get our new home up and running. That's the plan anyway. Sometimes life doesn't always follow my plan. Phil Shoemaker : "I went to a .30-06 on a fine old Mauser action. That worked successfully for a few years until a wounded, vindictive brown bear taught me that precise bullet placement is not always possible in thick alders, at spitting distances and when time is measured in split seconds. Lucky to come out of that lesson alive, I decided to look for a more suitable rifle." | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting 460S&W or 480 Ruger for effective bear deterance?
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