Hello all,

I was given a refinished Colt SAA 12 years ago when I graduated from college. I have shown this gun here before and was given advice to have a Colt letter done for it. Today I recieved a letter from Joe Canali that it is an artillery model but that they don't have any records for the gun due to it being such an early gun. More than likely it was a Gov't revolver. Also, unfortunately (kind of) it is a 2nd year production gun made in 1874. It has a four digit serial number 41xx. It is very cool that it is a Custer era gun. I wish I could get any information on it but I cant so I want to do something with it. I would like it to be a shooter and not a safe queen. I can never get rid of it because it was given to me but what options do I have. I would like opinions on Gunsmiths who do SAA work. I have talked with Doug Turnbull on several occasions and had thought of having him redo everything but that costs $3000 and then it would be a safe queen. Any opinions would be appreciated.









Thanks always,

ddj

Any reason you cant use it as is??????is it 45Colt???????a240 gr.boolit at 850FPS will do just about anything you want.just sayin

OLBIKER -

I just want to have the gun checked out first. I suspect that you would have to use Black Powder loads with this gun?

Thanks

ddj

WOW!
Use it for Sunday plinking on nice days only!
That's a jewel.

Man, that's cool!

wow!should use low pressure "cowboy" loads, but do NOT use BP .. i'd carry it every day!

That gun is so beautiful you should take it to church every Sunday!
Peter.

ddj, do you know anything about the refinishing job that was done? Was it also re-built in any ways at the same time? I have a reason for asking -

This gun of yours was NOT, repeat NOT, designed for use with modern smokeless powder. It was meant for black powder.

And I wouldn't even use black powder in it without getting it examined and approved first by a competent gunsmith who really knows 1st Generation Colts.

If it were me I'd learn about which 1st Generation guns can be shot with what powder. A good place with specialist knowledge available on all this is the Colt Forum. When I was beginning the learning process on this subject I inquired there about it myself - http://www.coltforum.com/forum...owthread.php?t=19636. I'm mentioning this thread very reluctantly since I started it, but I think it's best you have the benefit of the knowledge displayed in it by those other guys. The thread got kinda long and delved into cap and ball and other things, but parts of it are relevant.

You can also call Colt and ask them. Speaking of which, they do work on the Colt SAA and its .44-40 variant, the Frontier Six Shooter, but I believe they offer that only on 3rd Gen. guns.

At any rate, it is a good looking piece you have there. The grips ("stocks", the Colt guys call them) are nice too.

For information as to value, I'd suggest gunbroker.com. The gun itself is a very desirable piece, although not being in original condition would impact it somewhat. If Colt themselves did the refinish and that's reflected in their letter, that however should work in your favor. If those stocks by any chance are original, even though refinished, that should help too if you ever get around to thinking about selling.

Trusting you'll find this info helpful.

Shack,
I am kinda dumb with it comes to handguns .. in rifles, if a round was built for BP, and the gun was built for BP, we use smokeless AT THE SAME PRESSURES all the time .. from 45/70 trapdoors to double rifles, 12ga shotties and, well, including 30/30 ...

How is using the same pressure as a BP load in a colt different than, say, a springfield?

15k psi, BP or Smokeless, is 15K psi, right?

Shack -

Thanks for all your help and great information. I posted the question on the Colt forum also.

I don't know anything about the refinish job. It was done before the previous owner had it. HE had the gun 30-40 years. I want to have the gun checked out before I shoot it. I've had it this long and not shot it but I need to do something with it.


ddj

Good plan ddj. Lots of good info there on old Colts.

Jeff, I'm not a handloader. So when I hear cowboy load my first reaction is something one buys off the shelf. That means going with totally unknown and maybe dangerous psi for that gun. I'm not prepared to do that.

For instance, I have no idea if the .45 cylinder on that gun (I'm confident it's a .45 based on the serial) is a smokeless cylinder put on at the time of the refinish. Likewise with the barrel.

At any rate, how about the same question for a handloader? I don't mind admitting here when I don't know the answer to something. And I don't know the answer to your question, assuming it's identical psi. Pressure curves maybe? 1874 metallurgy? BP more forgiving? Less margin for error with smokeless? Cylinder walls lots thinner than rifle breeches? I don't know. The only thing I know for sure on it is even if a gunsmith says go ahead and do it, I'm still not trying it.

I was given that advice once by a real good smith. He's easily the most famous, experienced in this part of the world. It was a Parker shotgun that had damascus barrels. He said go ahead and use low pressure low brass smokeless loads, but just don't use any high pressure high brass magnum duck loads.

I have no doubts that he was right. It's just that I personally draw the line at some point on what I'm willing to pull the trigger on. We each have to make that decision.

As far as the "kinda dumb" on handguns - I think we all know better than that..I do anyway.

Shack,
thanks much .. .But, seriously, I am kinda dumb on handguns .. rifles.. well, perhaps not too bad, but on handguns .. i like my low pressure, 250gr 45LC loads .. that's what I do hunt with ..

BTW, some low brass loads ARE high pressure .. like estate and other "may pop" /promotional loads .. cheap, hot loaded, and will operate nearly any autoloader shottie ...

I had a chance to fire some RCBD ammo this weeking in my 625 ... low pressure doesn't BEGIN to cover it, and stupid fast LIGHT bullets ... cases's didnt' expanded/etcetcetc ... RCBD says is SAA "safe" .. not me, not ever!

quote:

Originally posted by trouthunterdj:
OLBIKER -

I just want to have the gun checked out first. I suspect that you would have to use Black Powder loads with this gun?

Thanks

ddj

I think that is what the Black powder loads had for velocity.Go over to 24 hour CF and talk to Shrapnel.He is into old blackpowder revolvers and Rifles.

Two suggestions.....

Check with Hamilton Bowen and since you are relatively close, send it to him for an evaluation.

Second, I'll send you $300.00 and you can ship it to me.....with my great thanks.....

Thanks for the offer Bill, but I will have to pass.


ddj

ddj, just a parting shot on your artillery model. I suspect you already know this, most Colt owners do, but because I believe it's a valuable piece, and just on the off chance you don't know - you want to be real careful not to let what looks like a slight hint of a turn line get any more noticeable. It would definitely affect the gun's value. Many have found that out the hard way.

Never lower the hammer from half cock. Bring it all the way back to full cock before lowering it. In theory this will prevent a turn line, but personally I believe if the gun is handled, cocked and generally fooled with enough a turn line will accidentally eventually appear. You can probably guess how I know that.

And speaking of half cock, the trigger looks almost as if in the half cock position or maybe safety position. But, I don't know if that's a characteristic of that era gun or not. I'd ask someone about that.

If it were mine I'd not shoot it. I think it's due a well deserved rest after all the history it's seen. Old West style six guns are fun to shoot however, and I see maybe in your future a new 3rd Gen. Colt SAA or Frontier Six Shooter. USFA also produces a real nice piece and it's made in the same factory that Colt originally operated out of.

In any event, I think I'd hang on to yours.

Thanks for all your help!

I think it is best to keep it as is or maybe just have it cleaned. My son is 7 and I would love to take him to Namibia so maybe in 5-6 years I will sell it to go on the trip. I'm not sure I can justify a gun I can't shoot no matter the historical value. What do you think?

Thanks

ddj

I had a guy tell me I was ruining my 1886 win.in 42-80 by shooting it .I ruin it at least once a week.You shoot low pressure loads in it ,if it checks out OK,you are good to go.I dont own a gun to look at.

ddj, there are reasons for keeping guns other than shooting them.

The historical value and the part this gun played in building the West is another. So is sentimental value if you have special feelings for the person who gave it to you. Another is the personal satisfaction in handing it down to your son.

Then there's the financial aspect. If the money's needed, that's one thing. It would make no doubt a dent in the cost of Namibia.

However, that gun in future decades may well be worth more in your son's hands than it is in yours today. It may well escalate in value over the decades and be an even more valuable commodity. In other words think of it as an investment. It may turn out to be a good place to park that money it's worth, more so than in CD or MM accounts that pay almost zero.

Afterall, trips to Africa will come and go, but once that old Colt's gone, it's gone for good. You can never replace it at the cost basis you have.

There's also what it'd mean to him after you're gone.

Shack -

Thanks for your imput. I'm glad that I have 6-7 years to make that decision. A wise man once told me it was "better to do than to have".

Thanks again,

ddj

Hey DDJ in I-O-way,

Thanks for sharing your SAA.

It really is a dandy.

You are fortunate to have this Custer-era Colt from 1874-- and whoever ends up with it next will be exponentially blessed.

Your 7 y.o. son and you have time on your side to have it, enjoy it, and allow the historical firearm collector's market expand your options down the road-- Namibia included

ddj, let me add this for you on the value. Others may find it useful too. Old black powder guns seem to bring less than guns, also old but that can still be shot with modern powder.

You see these Civil War 1860s in good condition and think, that must be a valuable piece. But, they really don't go for much. The market discounts being designed for BP and the cap and ball feature. There are of course exceptions on BP revolvers if the right history is there - a connection with Custer or someone else famous or a rare piece.

Anyway, for this reason I would not have a BP Colt professionally refinished. If I were going to do that, I'd pick a later smokeless proofed 1st Gen., or select a 2nd Gen. Those 2nd Gen. guns have pretty good reputations as shooters.

Here's an example of this. There's this late 1870s SAA I'd love to own. It was refinished by Colt themselves and not only that they gave it their best engraving job with the engraving highlighted (that costs extra) and to go it one better, genuine ivory one piece stocks were added. Somewhat aged, mellowed ivory at that. It's drop dead gorgeous and one of the very best I've ever seen. However, the price has been $6,000 something. It eventually was reduced to $5,000 something but continues to just sit. The main problem as I see it is, it's a black powder gun and nobody wants to pay that kind of money for something that's problematic to shoot, no matter how good looking. And once it's dressed up like that who's shooting it anyway.

I would still like to have it but what do I think is reasonable? Maybe half that.