Whitworth, I don't know what your problem is, or what your hang up is with the 700 gr. bullet. Yes I have tried the 700 gr. bullets in my 500 Mag, as well as a bunch of other bullets. But I have not used the 700 gr. bullet for hunting at all. Show me where I ever said the 700 gr. bullet is what I use or have used for hunting, you can't, because I NEVER used it for hunting.So whatever your hand up with it is get over it.

No contradiction what so ever. I have used the 370 and 440 gr. bullets in my 500 Mag from day one for hunting. The 700 gr. bullet to me was a novelty, nothing more.

Just because a round causes a larger hole does not make it kill quicker. What am I missing here?

And no I am not kidding you, I would not take a Texas heart shot on an animal, that is just me. If you want to do it, more power to you. I have all the confidence in my equipment, but shooting an animal in the ass is not my idea of proper shot placement. But that is just me. And I do have the "abilities behind the trigger".

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. But you seem to be the only one here with a problem at this time. Are you arguing because it is me or are you picking up where your buddy left off? You seem bitter anymore...

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
Whitworth, I don't know what your problem is, or what your hang up is with the 700 gr. bullet. Yes I have tried the 700 gr. bullets in my 500 Mag, as well as a bunch of other bullets. But I have not used the 700 gr. bullet for hunting at all. Show me where I ever said the 700 gr. bullet is what I use or have used for hunting, you can't, because I NEVER used it for hunting.So whatever your hand up with it is get over it.

No contradiction what so ever. I have used the 370 and 440 gr. bullets in my 500 Mag from day one for hunting. The 700 gr. bullet to me was a novelty, nothing more.

Just because a round causes a larger hole does not make it kill quicker. What am I missing here?

And no I am not kidding you, I would not take a Texas heart shot on an animal, that is just me. If you want to do it, more power to you. I have all the confidence in my equipment, but shooting an animal in the ass is not my idea of proper shot placement. But that is just me. And I do have the "abilities behind the trigger".

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. But you seem to be the only one here with a problem at this time. Are you arguing because it is me or are you picking up where your buddy left off? You seem bitter anymore...

More damage is the issue Redhawk -- you only pulled the bigger hole part out of the statement.

My problem? I don't have a problem at all. You have been pushing heavy for caliber bullets for a long time, and now you state a 250 is adequate for a .454! I'm just trying to figure out your direction as it seems to be changing.

When you shoot an animal behind the shoulder, you are really aiming for the vitals like the heart and lungs. When you take a Texas heart shot, you are doing the very same thing, but you have more animal to penetrate through. It is not merely shooting an animal in the hindquarters. You too have to visualize the heart/lung area before squeezing off. It is definitely not a shot for everyone to pull off. But also think about it this way. If your perfectly placed shot doesn't result in your animal going down, and it finds high gear and takes off like it has seen a ghost, will you shoot it in the backside as it is going away? You know that you aren't going to bring the animal down by wounding its buttocks, as you hope your bullet travels to the business end of the animal.......

I'm not interested in a pissing contest, so don't feel the compulsion to get the last word in.

.. OK Everybody ,,,,,,,, Calm down ,, I don,t think anyone is wrong here .... I remember when Ross Seyfeird started on the LBT bullets and super power revolvers ... One of the main points he made with the LBT/ Veral Smith WFN designs over the Kieth design was that the maplate does [ the killing ] ....... Kieth theorized that the shoulder was what cut or punched the hole . but Smith proved that it was the nose .........

Witworth . I,m not too good at math so as near as I can figure the meplate of your .475 bullets is .384" diameter the meplate of the 335 gr .452 bullets I,m shooting is .370 as near as I can measure them ...... Thats .014 difference in meplate diameter as opposed to .023" difference in caliber ......... In the end I may end up with a 360 gr bullet
@ 1400 fps as my load . but since wider is better I,m seeking experience and knowledge from guys who have more experience than I ....

I have taken some game with hard cast bullets in the 44 and 480 ... . It worked but wasn,t as spectacular as I thot it would be .... But they did work so thats good ...

Redhawk , you,ve really shot 700 gr bullets in your 500 Smith WOW, I,ve never heard of anything like that ..., I,m amazed ...

............... And the 250 gr bullet thing was started by me wondering if the high velocity attainable from a Casull combined with the integrity of the X bullet would produce a dramatically different result on a real life charging bear on a frontal chest shot ....

Providing the sighting was similar a revolver can be loaded with 1 or 2 frontal shot bullets and the rest solids for departing shots ... Like in a magazine rifle .... Provided they hit to the sights correctly .....

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:
Whitworth, I don't know what your problem is, or what your hang up is with the 700 gr. bullet. Yes I have tried the 700 gr. bullets in my 500 Mag, as well as a bunch of other bullets. But I have not used the 700 gr. bullet for hunting at all. Show me where I ever said the 700 gr. bullet is what I use or have used for hunting, you can't, because I NEVER used it for hunting.So whatever your hand up with it is get over it.

No contradiction what so ever. I have used the 370 and 440 gr. bullets in my 500 Mag from day one for hunting. The 700 gr. bullet to me was a novelty, nothing more.

Just because a round causes a larger hole does not make it kill quicker. What am I missing here?

And no I am not kidding you, I would not take a Texas heart shot on an animal, that is just me. If you want to do it, more power to you. I have all the confidence in my equipment, but shooting an animal in the ass is not my idea of proper shot placement. But that is just me. And I do have the "abilities behind the trigger".

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you. But you seem to be the only one here with a problem at this time. Are you arguing because it is me or are you picking up where your buddy left off? You seem bitter anymore...

More damage is the issue Redhawk -- you only pulled the bigger hole part out of the statement.

My problem? I don't have a problem at all. You have been pushing heavy for caliber bullets for a long time, and now you state a 250 is adequate for a .454! I'm just trying to figure out your direction as it seems to be changing.

When you shoot an animal behind the shoulder, you are really aiming for the vitals like the heart and lungs. When you take a Texas heart shot, you are doing the very same thing, but you have more animal to penetrate through. It is not merely shooting an animal in the hindquarters. You too have to visualize the heart/lung area before squeezing off. It is definitely not a shot for everyone to pull off. But also think about it this way. If your perfectly placed shot doesn't result in your animal going down, and it finds high gear and takes off like it has seen a ghost, will you shoot it in the backside as it is going away? You know that you aren't going to bring the animal down by wounding its buttocks, as you hope your bullet travels to the business end of the animal.......

I'm not interested in a pissing contest, so don't feel the compulsion to get the last word in.

I don't want the last word, So I will leave it open to you for a reply. Plus I thought this is an open discussion, and seeing how no one is cussing at each other, what is the problem?

But I think you are mistaken about me pushing heavy bullets, remember I like speed, and big bullets, because speed KILLS. Remember our discussion on Energy, well I still believe in it. But we will just leave it at that.

If I take a 400 gr. bullet and push it 1400 fps, it is a killing machine and will penetrate like hell. Now if I push a 325 gr. bullet 1600 fps, it will be a killing machine as well as a good penetrating round. Yes I know, there comes a point where too much of one thing is going to not do any better.

What I want to know is, why do you say a 250 gr. bullet is to light for the 454 Casull?
I can achieve the same thing with a lighter bullet by just increasing the velocity. We are talking handgun and handgun hunting at handgun ranges here. Also accuracy is another thing that has to part of it.

There are a number of factors that contribute to a bullet's ability to penetrate including weight for caliber, meplat size, nose profile, FOC (forward of center mass). But, I have seen bullets that "should" work, fail and formulas for one diameter and weight don't always translate to others. An LFN should technically out penetrate a WFN all else being equal (due to less resistence), but...... There really isn't a hard, fast rule that works every time.

As Redhawk1 pointed out correctly, when an animal is shot in the vitals, death is inevitable -- eventually. The main impetus for using a bigger caliber is incapacitation. Large bullet diameters and weight create more force, than small, lighter bullets. They break bones when small bullets drill through them......

What I suggest is that one should experiment (when possible) to figure out what works and what doesn't.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
.. OK Everybody ,,,,,,,, Calm down ,,


Redhawk , you,ve really shot 700 gr bullets in your 500 Smith WOW, I,ve never heard of anything like that ..., I,m amazed ...

gumboot458, I am as calm as I have ever been.

Yes I have shot quit a few of the 700 gr. bullets out of my 500 Mag's. I have also shot 640 and 575 gr. bullets in my 500 Mags. More just to see how the accuracy was and just for the fun of it.

Do I feel the need for such a large bullet, no I much prefer a lighter bullet, not to light but ideal for my use and at a good velocity.

For whatever reason, people seem to think because the 500 Mag can shoot them large bullets, that's what they should use. If you check the design of the 500 mag, it was designed with bullets in the 400 and 440 gr. weight area. Pete Pi of Cor-bon and Mark Jamison of Jamison International designed the 500 mag. I spoke with Mark Jamison many times about the 500 mag, I figured he knew what he was talking about seeing how he designed the 500 Mag round.

The majority of people that I know that shoot the 500 mag, are using the "light" 350 to 440 gr. bullets in there 500 Mag, and killing the crap out of a lot of animals.

My suggestion to you is, try different weight bullets on game, see how they perform. Then make your decision on what you want to use. If I had listened to some guys when I was working with the 500 mag many years ago, (5 years) I would be shooing 575 to 700 gr. bullet in my 500 Mag's. But I found out the 370 and 440 do a great job. I have yet to find a single bullet in any of the animals I have shot with them. What more penetration do I need?

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

What I suggest is that one should experiment (when possible) to figure out what works and what doesn't.

We both said the same thing and I agree 100%. The best way is to go out in the field and do some testing for ones self.

Whitworth, like you have said before, we agree on more things than we disagree on. It just takes us time to get out what we are trying to convey.

Like I said, I am not interested in getting in a pissing contest with you. I think you are a very smart guy, and people could learn a lot from you. I am glad this did not escalate into more then it is.

Thanks guys in keeping it civil. Good job.

.... Well I,ve been going around checking different rounds data ..

The 360 CP bullet will go 125 fps faster than the 395 gr bullet but the 395 will still get close to 1350 fps .... Lots of stuff to learn ...

When I,m homw from work [ off the Slope] I,m out in the woods most every day , so the chance of useing a revolver on bear , wolf, moose ,or caribou is pretty good .... I may end up useing the 360 gr bullet . ... And then getting a FA in 500 Wyoming Express . and a Ruger in 45 just for blastin ...????..

As there are grizzlies here[ nothing number wise like Unit 4 ] but still I know of several in the 8 ft range and I know a # of guys who have had to kill them , I may well have some live testing media ........

gumboot -- I would personally concentrate on the accuracy and not be so concerned with the velocity you can achieve with any of these loads. Sending you a PM.......

Heres a pic of the work holster and belt I made for my Casull..

only thing id change on your numbers is id probably stretch the 44 out to 32o grain and the 45 colt to 335 and to 350 with a 454 and in 512 ive had my best luck with 420s to 450s and in the 475 375s to 430s.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
..... I talked to Mike at Cast Preformance Bullets today ,, He said the 395 stabilizes fine from a Casull .... as you say SR Shooter ...that it did in your SRH ... The 335 gr wln fp . bullet @ 1500 is pretty manageable , but with this new revolver I,m in the learning stages ... I got a wad of 255 fp plated bullets for blastin/ practice also ..... Biggest thing I think I need right now is a new glasses perscription ,, The front sight is too fuzzy ....I,m almost done making the holster for it and it isn,t a scoped pistol holster ...so new specs are on the menu . .....I also ordered some 360 gr bullets today so I will see which ones the pistol and I like best I thot I saw a mold @ Midway U.S.A. , for a 405 gr .452 bullet .... I measured the meplate on the C.P. 335 gr bullets and it is around .370 ..I would like to get a mold made up to drop a Kieth style bullet with a .43 dia. meplate and around 360 gr cast from Linotype ............

I don't think there is a magic number of bullet weight that works well in every gun. Also performance is not just weight related.

I like to shoot bullets that are accurate and have a good weight for the caliber.

If I had to chose bullet weights for optimum accuracy and killing power in my handguns, in my opinion, I would go with....
357 mag...140 to 160 grain bullet
41 mag...170 to 255 grain
44 mag...240 to 300 grain
45 LC/454...255 to 325 grain
475/480...350 to 440 grain
50 caliber (.500)...325 to 440 grain
50 caliber (.510)...350 to 435 grain

.I was on the Beartooth site , there was a chart with the meplate size and expected permanante wound cavity diameter for 357-510 dia bullets .... It showed the meplate size of the .510 bullets as being the same or close to the same as the .452 bullets .... .370" .... The widest was a .475" dia. bullet but it was only .380" as I recall ... ... I,m going to get to the bottom of this issue .....

gumboot458, check out this site. http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm

Thanks for the link Redhawk .. I,ll study it in the morning ..

.. . I may end up with the 330-360 gr bullets in my Casull ...............I saw he has a round called the 458 Linebaugh .. considering .458 is about my favorite groove diameter I need to check this out ...