quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76:
I'm going to go against the grain here. Bar none, the most accurate bullet in my M83 is the 260 gr Nosler PT/HG loaded to max velocity over H110. At 1900+ fps, the isn't a deer or a hog that this bullet won't pass through. Yea they're a bit spendy, but in reality the price of a bullet is the cheapest part of your hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
he is looking for maximum penetration on something big (let's say a 400 lb hog), I would think he would be better served with a heavy cast bullet at moderate velocities. That light expanding bullet would be hell on deer, though. JMHO.

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Originally posted by shadob:
I have found "my" loads to be: 240 XTP Mag. (1880 fps)

quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
he is looking for maximum penetration on something big (let's say a 400 lb hog), I would think he would be better served with a heavy cast bullet at moderate velocities. That light expanding bullet would be hell on deer, though. JMHO.

Brother, I knew I would draw fire from the cast bullet crew on this one. The question was regarding my favorite bullet, not the most penetrative one. While I do understand your perspective and certainly respect your opinion, I stand by my choice-there is no hog or deer that will survive a PT/HG in the boiler room.

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Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
he is looking for maximum penetration on something big (let's say a 400 lb hog), I would think he would be better served with a heavy cast bullet at moderate velocities. That light expanding bullet would be hell on deer, though. JMHO.

Brother, I knew I would draw fire from the cast bullet crew on this one. The question was regarding my favorite bullet, not the most penetrative one. While I do understand your perspective and certainly respect your opinion, I stand by my choice-there is no hog or deer that will survive a PT/HG in the boiler room.

See the JMHO at the end of my post? That means I fired nothing at you, I simply voiced my opinion. Now, that said, I too was an expanding bullet kind of guy, until I saw a couple of spectacular failures on hogs that weren't particularly big, which got me thinking. If a small hog can induce failure, what about a heavy-boned hog with a thick gristle plate? Now I know the Nosler is a better bullet than the XTP, but if the bullet doesn't make it to the vitals, that constitutes a failure in my book no matter how nicely the expanding bullet mushrooms. And speed won't necessarily make up for it -- again IMHO. I simply feel that if one wants reliable penetration, then a hollow or soft-point isn't the way to go.

Dang, and I thought we were here to voice opinions

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Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Juggernaut76:

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
he is looking for maximum penetration on something big (let's say a 400 lb hog), I would think he would be better served with a heavy cast bullet at moderate velocities. That light expanding bullet would be hell on deer, though. JMHO.

Brother, I knew I would draw fire from the cast bullet crew on this one. The question was regarding my favorite bullet, not the most penetrative one. While I do understand your perspective and certainly respect your opinion, I stand by my choice-there is no hog or deer that will survive a PT/HG in the boiler room.

See the JMHO at the end of my post? That means I fired nothing at you, I simply voiced my opinion. Now, that said, I too was an expanding bullet kind of guy, until I saw a couple of spectacular failures on hogs that weren't particularly big, which got me thinking. If a small hog can induce failure, what about a heavy-boned hog with a thick gristle plate? Now I know the Nosler is a better bullet than the XTP, but if the bullet doesn't make it to the vitals, that constitutes a failure in my book no matter how nicely the expanding bullet mushrooms. And speed won't necessarily make up for it -- again IMHO. I simply feel that if one wants reliable penetration, then a hollow or soft-point isn't the way to go.

Dang, and I thought we were here to voice opinions

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Originally posted by dvnv:
I too am in the minority. My favorite for the 454 is the 260 gr Partition which I run in the low 1,700s. IMHO, there is substantial difference between it and the XTP.

I have heard stories of JHP failures but have yet to see the Partition fail and will agree with Juggernaut76 that a pig or deer shot in the boiler room with one is going to die pdq.

They do have some downside, expense and forcing cone wear being two, and I probably won't be taking a Texas heart shot with them, but I'll have to learn the hard way before acknowledging a performance issue for deer and pigs. dvnv

quote:

How does that make for a quicker kill if it doesn't reach the vitals?

Faster handgun projectiles scrub off speed WAY faster than slower moving bullets. My Casull with light, fast loads shows more drop at 200 yards than my .475 Linebaugh with heavy bullets and moderate velocity. Not trying to be argumentative, just sharing my experiences.

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Originally posted by Whitworth:
I'm silly enough to think that a 240 grain bullet is too light for a .44 mag, let alone a .454.......but I'm weird that way!

Like I said, whatever gets you through the night.......

Really though, I think hollow points are hell on deer, but hogs are a lot denser and when they get big, I have seen too many bullets fail on them. Again, just my experience.

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Originally posted by dvnv:
You just listed 3 down sides to them

Yeah, but I didn't list the positives, flatter trajectories and quicker kills. For me, worth the negatives...dvnv

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Bullets, boolits, all brands ever thought of and each has a perfect purpose. I will not argue the point.
However, it is true that a heavy .475 boolit has a better trajectory at 200 then many smaller calibers. I was surprised myself. Sighted the same, about 1" high at 50 and hitting about 2" low at 100, I figure the 200 yd drop at around 18".
A 330 gr boolit from the .44 at the same starting velocity will drop about 35". I never tested the .454 so I can't say. It is just that some strange things happen.
Now my 45-70 revolver with a 317 gr boolit drops 16" at 200, -4" at 150 and -26 FEET at 500.
What we need to know is what each different bullet/boolit does, none will be the same.
So even though the .475 boolit drops little, there might be .454 boolits that drop less and some that drop more.
The only way to know is to actually shoot them and use a tape measure to see.
Then again, how many of us will shoot at animals at real long range? I might from a rest but never from a field position.

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Originally posted by dvnv:

quote:

Bullets, boolits, all brands ever thought of and each has a perfect purpose. I will not argue the point.
However, it is true that a heavy .475 boolit has a better trajectory at 200 then many smaller calibers. I was surprised myself. Sighted the same, about 1" high at 50 and hitting about 2" low at 100, I figure the 200 yd drop at around 18".
A 330 gr boolit from the .44 at the same starting velocity will drop about 35". I never tested the .454 so I can't say. It is just that some strange things happen.
Now my 45-70 revolver with a 317 gr boolit drops 16" at 200, -4" at 150 and -26 FEET at 500.
What we need to know is what each different bullet/boolit does, none will be the same.
So even though the .475 boolit drops little, there might be .454 boolits that drop less and some that drop more.
The only way to know is to actually shoot them and use a tape measure to see.
Then again, how many of us will shoot at animals at real long range? I might from a rest but never from a field position.

Regarding your 475 data: Dropping 3" from 50-100yds and then only dropping 16" in the next 150 yds doesn't sound right to me. You either have magic boolits or your field trial was somehow flawed...at least in my opinion. dvnv

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Originally posted by Tembo:
Thanks for the input guys. I am going to give Beartooth cast 300's a try first.

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Originally posted by Whitworth:

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Originally posted by Tembo:
Thanks for the input guys. I am going to give Beartooth cast 300's a try first.

Beartooth makes some really good bullets. Good luck and keep us posted!

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Originally posted by Sergeant_Sabre:
I use the Winchester Super-X 300gr. jacketed flat-nose. It's the Freedom Arms brand bullet loaded by Winchester to about 1600fps.

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Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
i too dont see a reason for trajectory to even play into it and im a long distance shooter. No handgun shoots flat. If sighted in a 100 yards there dead on as far as im going to shoot an animal which is a 100 yards. If your shooting rocks at long range, just learn your gun and learn how much sight to hold over. At 500 yards your going to have to hold over a bunch no matter if your shooting a 240 at 1400 or a 300 at a 1000. In my experience the heavy bullets tend to stay stable longer and hold accuracy better out past a 100 yards anyway. I totaly agree that a jacketed bullet is fine for deer sized game but i wouldnt hunt anything bigger with one personaly. I guess I cant even see why i would hunt a deer with them. My handguns are called on to hunt differnt things at differnt times and to also plink and shoot long range. I have to many of them to work up and sight in differnt loads for every application. Ive never seen where in a 44 or 45 a 300 grain at 1100 fps wouldnt take care of any of my chores.

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Originally posted by Redhawk1:
I don't see why this is such a big issue here. A lot of guys have no business shooting a handgun over 50 yards much less 100 yards. They don't put the time in to be proficient with a handgun.

I know there are guys that have practiced for long range shooting with a handgun, but a handgun and we are talking 454 Casull here, were not designed to be long range shooters.

You want to shoot long range, get an Encore with a scope and a bottled necked cartridge and go practice.

I get a kick out of all the guys that clamed to be long range shooters. I am not talking about the few here that actually do it, but the wannabe long range handgun shooters out there. I have seen some that clamed to be long range handgun shooter's, and not even be able to shoot a rifle long range.

Lloyd you post is right on.