You know, I have shot this revolver/load combination many times at that yardage and it does exactly what I say it does. I have no motive to lie about it.

quote:

You know, I have shot this revolver/load combination many times at that yardage and it does exactly what I say it does. I have no motive to lie about it.

Didn't think either of you would lie about it. It doesn't make sense though. You are using holdover at 200, correct? I'd like to see you try the same hold for both, and prove the 75 yard zero. I have never seen the math off by a foot at 200, there has to be a reason...I am guessing it is how you are doing it.

If you don't care, then keep shooting it the same way and measuring it the same way and believing that the 420 gr 475 defies math and physics. If you want to test it, then change your method...I suggested how I would test it, maybe you have already done it that way.

When I get the 475 up an running, I'll try it myself (though it is not the load I really want to shoot). Maybe you can donate 30 bullets to the cause? If I am wrong and it drops 18 inches at 200 with a 75 zero, I'll post it with an admission of error. I've been wrong before, it is no big deal. dvnv

the only difference there'd be b/w a pistol and rifle is muzzle rise is much more extreme. not sure why there'd be a difference it's just a calculation based on BC and velocity for the most part. it's an interesting subject for sure.

At 75 yards, the bullet is still rising -- it is still in an upward arc. I have never seen a ballistic program work on a revolver.

quote:

At 75 yards, the bullet is still rising -- it is still in an upward arc. I have never seen a ballistic program work on a revolver.

Mine aren't rising at 75 yards. At least not with a 75 yard zero. Kind of doubt yours are either...but if they are rising, where does it cross back to zero? Because that is the distance I would say it is zeroed for. How far above bore are your sights? dvnv

Make is simple! Sight a .22 pistol dead on at 25 yards and it will again cross the line of sight at 80 yards. There is always a mid range.

quote:

Make is simple! Sight a .22 pistol dead on at 25 yards and it will again cross the line of sight at 80 yards. There is always a mid range.

But we are talking about 75 yards...very different.

Elevation or POI will get closer to the sight in distance as that distance increases and also by the trajectory but all charts go by 100 yard increments and are useless.
I will make a test with my .475 starting at 75, 100, 150 and 200 and see if I can get better figures. Then I will do the same with the .44.
It is way too sloppy right now, nothing but muck on my range.
Then I need a target I can hold center on at all ranges.
Midrange is the highest between the muzzle and the target and the higher that is, the more drop you get after the target. If the gun shoots flatter to the sight in distance, it might still be rising a little after the target.
That is a very poor way to say it though because no boolit rises, it drops at all times from the muzzle on out. It is the relationship between the line of sight and the trajectory.
My reference to the .22 was not right either. I should have said that if you sight any gun at say, 100 yards, it will be at the line of sight somewhere between the muzzle and target again.
Lets say you have a scoped handgun and it is dead on at 100 and also dead on at 30 yards. From 30 yards in, the POI will get LOWER and if you want to shoot a deer that is down in the head, you need to aim above it's head if it is close. That amount is governed by the height of the scope above the bore.
But yes, a boolit that is flat shooting can still be going higher past the target.
I think Whitworth is wrong with the amount he attributes to that rise, it is not enough to figure in at longer ranges.
Any boolit with a high trajectory will drop after the target.
This is an interesting subject and I don't want to read any book for my boolit. I want to see what it actually does. I still say it is how a boolit maintains velocity and trajectory to keep it from dropping too much at range.
I look at it this way, if you sight for 75 and the boolit reaches the high point of 1" high at 80 yards, from there on it will hit lower and lower and it is only the BC that will have an affect to lessen drop.
If the boolit has a high arch before the target, it will hit lower at 80 yards and keep going down fast.
I was surprised with the little drop at 200 with the 420 gr .475 boolit but do not attribute that to the boolit going up after the sight in distance. I attribute it to the boolit shooting flatter to 75 and not bleeding off velocity too fast after that.

quote:

I will make a test with my .475 starting at 75, 100, 150 and 200 and see if I can get better figures. Then I will do the same with the .44.
It is way too sloppy right now, nothing but muck on my range.
Then I need a target I can hold center on at all ranges.

I'll be interested to see your results and respect your effort to find out.

I am thinking most handguns don't have enough velocity to be rising at 75 unless they are around 4 or more inches above zero at 75. That number depends on how fast the load and how tall the sights...mine are iron, I'll guess lower than your UltraDots. dvnv

i nearly duplicated your loads and just for information purposes got drop of about 30" in testing out of my encore rifle.

i am interested in your results for sure and appreciate the effort made in real world testing you do.

It will be a while. I need to cast, age boolits and load. I am out of everything.
Then the weather is turning bitter cold today so I don't want to stand in the garage and cast.
But I will sure post when done.
We have been trying to get my friends S&W, .45 ACP revolver to shoot. Some targets at 25 just get sprayed and the best I have done is 2" to 3" from bags. The WW primer was the worst, FED 150 better so I bushed a few cases to take the SP primer and groups dropped to 1" right now.
He ordered a bunch of brass that uses the SP primer.
You will not believe how much the POI changes with just a primer change, as much as 5" at 25 and some are worse.

NOW we are getting somewhere! A great idea to take the time and test. I suspect that results will vary depending on the sighting system used. Scopes, of course sit higher above the barrel then open sights, but, are more precise (for most people). I might participate with my S&W 44 mag.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by dvnv:

quote:

I will make a test with my .475 starting at 75, 100, 150 and 200 and see if I can get better figures. Then I will do the same with the .44.
It is way too sloppy right now, nothing but muck on my range.
Then I need a target I can hold center on at all ranges.

I'll be interested to see your results and respect your effort to find out.

I am thinking most handguns don't have enough velocity to be rising at 75 unless they are around 4 or more inches above zero at 75. That number depends on how fast the load and how tall the sights...mine are iron, I'll guess lower than your UltraDots. dvnv

All bullets are in an upward arc when they intersect the line of sight. The bullet will continue to rise past the line of sight until the projectile starts its downward arc and will intersect the line of sight a second time.

The sights are above the bore, therefore the barrel must be angled slightly up or the bullet would never intersect the line of sight.

quote:

All bullets are in an upward arc when they intersect the line of sight. The bullet will continue to rise past the line of sight until the projectile starts its downward arc and will intersect the line of sight a second time.

The sights are above the bore, therefore the barrel must be angled slightly up or the bullet would never intersect the line of sight.

Agreed...still think my 75 yard estimate is in the ballpark.

OK, what exactly is test. Sight in a revolver at 75 yards and see where it hits at 150?
Peter.

quote:

OK, what exactly is test. Sight in a revolver at 75 yards and see where it hits at 150?
Peter.

The question was drop at 200 with a 75 yard zero, specifically with a 420 gr 475 at +/- 1,329 fps (if memory serves correctly). dvnv

quote:

Originally posted by duck911:
Well, I haven't shot it yet but this followed me home from the gunshow yesterday.

I wanted something DA and I like the ruggedness, fit, and feel of the Ruger:

What barrel length is that? What caliber also?


I've got a SRH in .480 Ruger; superb handgun and cartridge!

That's a 9 1/2-inch .44 mag.......

i've done this experiment with encore rifles and 454, 44 mag, and 475 bullets. no offense, but when sighted in at 100 yards from the rifle off a rest there truly wasn't more than about an inch or two drop b/w the 44 and 475, the lighter faster 454 loads were noticeably flatter, very much so. the rifle was used so as to be able to eliminate barrel rise as much as possible. not sure how bfr shooter got nearly double the drop with the .44????

tradmark -- 200 yards was in question, not 100......

read carefully, i said sighted in at 100 yards. shot at many distances and the results mirror the ballistics programs nearly to perfection. there's nothing magical about a pistol bullet, only thing going on here is the barrel rise is causing the bullets to be rising at the distance being sighted in, or they ballooned out there and are dropping. severely in the case of bfr's 475 testing. i have no doubt that at 200 yards it was hitting 18" low. though i have no doubt that somewhere in the mid trajectory it was about 12 - 18" high. nonuseable for hunting in the midranges.

i fully understand the question is about drop, that's what i tested with the rifle barrels. if one load drops more out of a rifle barrel it will out of a pistol barrel.

I read carefully and you said sighted in at 100 yards, you mentioned drop but never specified the distance -- that is why I called it into question as it wasn't clear to me.

sorry, my bad, i would have to look at my notes but i shot em at 25/50/75/100/150/200 and 300.

Post up the test, I know that I would be very interested in seeing your data!

i will, i'm on my call week, as soon as i get back in town i'll pull up my notes and post em

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Originally posted by tradmark:
i will, i'm on my call week, as soon as i get back in town i'll pull up my notes and post em

Priorities, man!

Dup post...



Sorry