.44 mag. vs. 45 L/C as a hand gun deer round?

Which do you prefer and WHY??? Ballistics, recoil, reloading, availiblity, etc.etc.

This should be an interesting thread to follow. I shoot both and will admit a preference for the 45 Colt, but only because that revolver has had substantial work done on it by Hamilton Bowen, including his great sight system. Objectively I don't think it makes much difference. 50 yards is my limit and either cartridge will perform well at that range.

ON deer it should read either/or and not vs. The 45 Colt can do everything the .44 Mag can at lower pressures. Really just boils down to a matter of preference.

The real advantage of increased diameter comes when heavier bullets are used. I would say that one most likely will find "better" ammo at the local WalMart of sporting goods store for the .44 Mag over the .45 Colt, but this is not always the case anymore.

Either caliber using approximately 250 grains of hard cast bullet will do well out past 100 yards on deer sized game.

Have a Performance Center S&W .44 mag and another in .45 colt. VERY tough to decide betwen the two as either one will work just fine on deer and antelope.

This is an either/or sort of decision. Until you want to go for the HEAVY slugs for say elk or bear then the .45 Colt is the King.

FN in MT

45 Colt, but only because that is what i have...and that i reload...and that i share plinker bullets with those i load for the 45 acp...and sometimes patch up my heavies for the 45-70.

But if you reload and have a .44 Special as a home defense gun, or if you like relic miltary arms and have a .43 Mauser, or if get a lever gun in .444, then you could enjoy the same bullet economy (for me that is saving a mould or two) hunting with the .44 Mag.

The 45 does have an edge; but it is so small, at least when it comes to performance on deer, that you will be better off deciding by what deal or quality you can get on the individual handgun. .44's may be more common in your market and you might can get one better cheaper.

That said, i love my 45's

quote:

Originally posted by 45LCshooter:
45 Colt, but only because that is what i have...and that i reload...and that i share plinker bullets with those i load for the 45 acp...and sometimes patch up my heavies for the 45-70.

Funny, I always thought that 45 LC was .452 and 45-70 was .458. For deer, I don't think their is much difference. I personally like the 44 better, but I will admit that either are interchangable when loaded to similar pressures.

John

On deer, it would be a toss up between the two. On the big stuff, with a 5 shot 45 Colt, the 44 is left wanting.

Back when Keith was shooting hot loads from revolvers the cylinder walls were too thin on the .45 Colt guns and he could get more out of a .44 special in fact. This lead to the .44 Magnum which should have been named after Keith.

I have shot a 45 Colt Blackhawk since the late 60's and it does fine but the .44 Mag has a thicker cartridge case and a better rim where one is needed.

Today I would go with the .44 mag as it's the path of least resistance. Since then the .45 guys have done what Keith did with the .44 as there are stronger guns.

44 Mag has a thicker cartridge case??? All my 44's and 45's are the same thickness. Maybe you've got a batch of those mysterious thin 45's...

MS Hitman "The real advantage of increased diameter comes when heavier bullets are used."

Please expound on that statement.

I shoot Corbon when hunting. I've carried both cal. handuns on boar hunts.

With:

.44 Redhawk W/CorBon mag. 320 gr. HC 1175 fps./981 ft.#

.45 Freedom Arms w/CorBon P+ 335 gr. HC 1050 fps./ 820 ft#

The only difference I can tell is recoil, my FA is more enjoyble to shoot. That could be due to the grip & wt. of the handgun(?)

Most of my shots have been at close range under 25 yrds. I hope to draw for handgun deer here next fall. Of course for an Illinois Buck, I might need those HAWG rounds

Give me the .45 colt, never fired a .44 mag that felt good.
personal preference
Mike

This is probably going to go back and forth. But for deer it really is and "either /or" sort of deal. I have killed probably close to a hundred deer in the forty years I've been hunting. Half with handguns. And from that experience I've found; When hit in the heart/lung area NO deer is tough to kill. I have never lost one, had to track one for more than a short distance,etc. I do NOT understand all the drama and angst I read here about killing deer. I don't care if it's a big muley or a whitetail. I've never found deer especially tough to kill.

It all boils down to PROPER PLACEMENT. I think a lot of the "problems" we read about here boil down to gut shots or peripheral hits, not bullet failures.

Deer are easy......ESPECIALLY when hit with a proper .430" or .451" slug. Personally I prefer a heavy for caliber LBT or True Keith design at a moderate velocity. Such as the 250-275 grains in the forty fours and the 250-285's in the forty fives. I seldom drive any of these to more than 1050 fps and still SELDOM ever find a slug in a deer or antelope. The moderate velocity makes it easier to shoot,less recoil and muzzle blast and You can concentrate on PLACEMENT not trying to survive the recoil.

For elk I do use the .45 as it's a much larger animal and you need the better tool for the job.

As far as .45 Colt cases being weaker/thinner than .44 magnum cases. Today with recent or current components that is just NOT true. Either case can take the same pressure. Ross Seyfried did an article on this subject for I think HANDLOADER a few years back and dispelled THAT myth. He drove .45 Colts with heavy bullets to 1300+ fps. With zero problems.

I seldom used jacketed slugs but have read good things about the Hornady XTP's in the heavier weights as working pretty well on deer and antelope.

I'm not trying to come off here as the be all,end all expert. But I have had a lot of experience on deer and other large game so wanted to pass it on.

FN in MT

Like everyone else said, for deer it doesn't matter. I'll take the 45 Colt over the 44 Mag anyday, and I own both.

I'll take the 45 colt have 2 ruger bisley's both 7.5 in. barrels 1 with a scope and 1 without . They feel good in my hands, great selection of bullets and will do anything the 44 will do.

Hoeram

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by 45LCshooter:
45 Colt, but only because that is what i have...and that i reload...and that i share plinker bullets with those i load for the 45 acp...and sometimes patch up my heavies for the 45-70.

Funny, I always thought that 45 LC was .452 and 45-70 was .458. For deer, I don't think their is much difference. I personally like the 44 better, but I will admit that either are interchangable when loaded to similar pressures.

John

Yes, this is true. I think .45LCshooter said he was patching them up (i.e. wrapping them with patches to increase diameter and engage the rifling like they did with the old paper-patched cartridges).

Steve

I own both. My 44 Mag has a 5.5" barrel and will shoot the 240 gr bullet at 1430 fps. My 45 LC has a 7.5" barrel and will shoot the 240 gr bullet at 1450 fps. My 44 is a Redhawk, my 45 LC
is a Blackhawk [new model].

An interesting article here gives insight to some size matters:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm

Ron

yep, paper patching. Same would go for shooting .44 in an .43 Mauser.

My preferred hunting load for my 5.5" Bisley in 45 Colt is :

270 gr Leadheads Keith style
19.5 gr 2400
WLP primer
1270 fps

Accurate, not unpleasant to shoot, although for general "plinking" I use a 255 gr. Laser cast.

for DEER? 44 mag with the xtp will work, deer are not a tough animal. Might even consider the 41magnum too. Just depends The 45 Colt is my go to handgun here in Alaska. All tuned up and fits the hand like it is alive. I reload 345 grn WLNGC with H110. My Smith 629-1 is loaded with 250 grn Keiths and Unique, just for black bear or..... good hunting.

in some states a 45lc is illegal to use because it dosent produce enough energy. even shooting a 185 grain dosent reach the velocity of a 44 mag with a 240. the .023 diameter differance will not make enough differance on killing any animal. in washington state, you will get a ticket and loose your guns for using a 45lc.
theres no loading data to support shooting a 45lc over about 900fps, where i shoot a 240gr from my 44 around 1540 fps.

better check your game laws

WOW, nwash... Is that your first gun, and the first load data you've ever seen??? Come on!! Take a look around and get educated before choking up the board with garbage like that

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/45coltlil.php

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Han...%20start%20loads.pdf

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nwwash:
in some states a 45lc is illegal to use because it dosent produce enough energy. even shooting a 185 grain dosent reach the velocity of a 44 mag with a 240. the .023 diameter differance will not make enough differance on killing any animal. in washington state, you will get a ticket and loose your guns for using a 45lc.
theres no loading data to support shooting a 45lc over about 900fps, where i shoot a 240gr from my 44 around 1540 fps.

better check your game laws[/QUOTE/]

What B.S. Buffalo Bore factory loaded 45 colt 325 grain clocks 1420 fps from my 6 shot 45 colt
what load data are you talking about 1920's?

In the heavier bullet weights, the 45 Colt will push the same weight bullet at very similar velocities with much less pressure than the .44 Mag. This equates to less recoil, noise, and fatigue to both the shooter and the firearm. One must push the .44 Mag much harder to acheive the same level of performance as the bullets get heavier.

MS Hitman - Thanks for the reply. I've been a extemely serious bvowhunter for the last 20+ yrs. and have only recently gotten interested in handgun hunting. I've learned a lot on these boards over the last year.

Thank you too all that have been constructive.

On hind sight I probabbly shouldn't have used "Deer" in the origanal post as it took the thread of on side trip.

mancannon, look at the hodgdon site again. it says for ruger,freedom arms and t/c contender ONLY! DAH. guess whos spreading missleading b.s. nowwhy dont you get your facts straight. this misleading info can get some one hurt.
try looking in hodgdons 26th edition manual that first production was in 1992. the only exception was for rifels similiar to the model 94 winchester.
jwp475, buffalo bore ammo is a specialty ammo thats like a +p ammo and they only load very few calibers-- 44 mag and 45lc are 2 of them.

dont tell me about spewing b.s. when you didnt look either

The 45 at 35000 cups of chamber pressure will push equall weight bullets as fast as the 44 mag does at 45000 to 48000 cups. all handloaders can load to this pressure in Ruger, Freedom Arms,BFR, type revolvers and Buffalo Bore and Corbon loads do not exceed these pressures the comparison that you made in your earlier post about a 45 not producing enough energy to legaly hunt game in some states, and your comparison of a 185 grain in 45 to a 240 grain in 44 mag is B.S. Compare apples to apples not apples to oranges.I took the original question to pertain to mordern loading of the 45colt in modern revolvers not black powder pressure loads of the 45 colt of a century ago as used today by cowboy action shooters

jwp475- stuff it where the son dosent shine. before you shoot your mouth off again, go look in the 26 edition of hodgdons reloading manual. and then you can shove your head where the sun dont shine

nwwash,

I suggest you stick your nose in several other sources of information before drawing such a hard conclusion. The .45 Colt can indeed be loaded to levels of performance that meet and exceed the .44 Magnum.

A little bit of knowledge can be a most dangerous condition and you appear to be at that point.

nwwash -- cool your jets. This doesn't have to turn into a pissing contest. We can discuss without this turning ugly.

Before I bought my 629, I was really up in the air about whether to choose the 44 mag or 45 LC. If the ammo was as easy to find here, I probably would have gone with the 45. It's not. I can get 44 specials to plink with and boomer "maggies" with ease for the 44. It's a tough choice no matter where you land on the topic.

whitworth,

im not trying to get a pissin match goin here,i mearly am pointing out facts that if some one looks, they will see what i am saying. i would be most happy to scan my hodgdon book an post the page here for all to see.

and if thats not good enough, i will scan the page from accurate smokeless powders that says "DO NOT HANLOAD THE 45COLT AMMO TO 44 MAGNUM PRESSURE LEVELS. THE 45 COLT BRASS IS NOT AS STRONG AS 44 MAG CASES. THE 45 COLT CANNOT UTILIZE MOST MODERN SMOKELESS POWDERS"
IT ALSO GOES ON TO SAY THE LOADS FOR THE T/C AND RUGER DEVELOP THE SAME PRESSURES AS +P 45 ACP LOADS

now i dont belive that "MOST" of us here know more than those in the buisness of producing ammo and componants.

nwwash,

Testing by HP White Laborartories indicates the Ruger Blackhawks will stand loads up to about 60,000 cup before letting go. This makes them right at 75-80% as strong as the same revolver chambered in 44 Mag. So at 32,000 cup, we still have right at 100% safety factor on the Rugers.

This allows those who so choose to load the .45 Colt to a higher level of performance than obtainable in most factory ammo. The only thing weak about the .45 Colt is the thousands of blackpowder revolvers that have been made. THe cases are every bit as strong as .44 Mag cases. As I've said before, the .45 Colt will do eveything the 44 Mag will do at lower pressures; roughly 20% less in most cases. You need to do some additional research into this before picking a sword to fall on. In fact, you have admitted in other posts to not having very much experience and most of your knowledge is from reading.

The problem, as I see it, is that 45 colt guns that is not a modern Ruger och FA or similar, can't take the pressure. But if you compare "apples with apples", Rugers, FA with 44mag guns the 45colt will winn but if you compare old 45 blackpowder guns with 44mag the 45 isn't even near the performance level of the 44mag.
Ok?


Edit: just as MS Hitman stated above..

I just had to jump in.

The truth of the matter is there is not a killing differants between a well loaded 45 colt or a 44mag.

Any body that thinks a heavey 429 bullet or a simular weight 452 loaded to the same vel is going to kill something better then the other is wrong.

There is no animal out there that is going to tell the differants when hit by one or the other.

In a good modern gun the colt can be loaded to good hunting vel. The 44 mag also.

Is one better the other in feild one well never know the differants in preformance.

Either are fine, and neither need to be running at magnum power levels to work on whitetail. I bagged a tasty doe a year or two back with a .429 240 gr SWC @ 875 fps (a handload in a case labeled "44 Magnum"). Socked her through both lungs with my M629 Mtn Gun; she bolted for a couple three steps and fell over.

The main difference is bullet diameter as long as the weight remains at 300 grains or less.

As nordresta pointed out, a hard cast bullet does not have to be run full throttle to be effective. Muzzle velocities of around 1200 fps appear to be about optimum for handguns using hard cast bullets. Once this velocity is exceeded, one receives very little addtional penetration for added blast and recoil.

During penetration testing at the '03 Texas Linebaugh seminar, I got 21" of penetration from a .44 Spl loaded with 7.0 grains of Unique behind a 240 SWC and 30" of penetration from a .45 Auto Rim loaded with 7.0 grains of Unique behind a 255 SWC. Both bullets were made by the same company, so I beleive the added weight of the .452" bullet increased the performance. Will one kill a whitetail any deader than the other, no. But the additional 9" of penetration may just make the difference on a raking or less than perfect shot. Having said this, I've taken 26 whitetail with .44 Mags and do not plan to hang them up just yet.

The .429 240 grain has a sectional density of .186, and the .451 bullet has a sectional deniety of .179 fairly close.What ever the reason the 45 cal seems to be higher on the food chain.I have seen a 45 colt 325 grain (.228 sd) at 1420fps out penetrate a .429 305 grain(237 sd) from a 44 mag at nearly the same 1420 fps on Buffalo The 45 can be quite amazing

jwp475

to draw conculesions on one or a few animals for the 44 or 45 is wrong maybe the 45 hit less bone maybe the 44 did. The only way to compare them would to use the same medium the same shape bullet and the same vel. For at least 10 rounds If you did this I belive you with find them with in a couple of inchs of each other.

Nothing that is going to make a bit of differants in the feild. Except in the mind of the users.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
jwp475

to draw conculesions on one or a few animals for the 44 or 45 is wrong maybe the 45 hit less bone maybe the 44 did. The only way to compare them would to use the same medium the same shape bullet and the same vel. For at least 10 rounds If you did this I belive you with find them with in a couple of inchs of each other.

Nothing that is going to make a bit of differants in the feild. Except in the mind of the users.

Simple math to me. .452 is bigger than .429. Same velocity, bigger hole....can't argue against that.