The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting SW .500 revolver for my upcoming bison hunt.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| SW .500 revolver for my upcoming bison hunt. | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
So I have a Bull Bison hunt booked in the next few months and would like to hear others stories and see some pictures to get me motivated. Im hunting with my smith and wesson .500 revolver and would like to get up close and personal, My question is what are the odds of him charging me after my first shot? I will have two back up guns in .45-70 and .300 ultra mag. Im thinking about loading up some 600 grain or 700 grain hard cast bullets for some knock down power. | ||
|
| One of Us |
You are wasting your money on 600 and 700gr bullets...they are not necessary. Stick to the 400-440gr bullets as that is plenty for what you need to do. Charge you after the 1st shot? Place the slug behind his ear and he will go right down. I would not advise a body shot on a Bison with any handgun..they just take too long to expire and the animal deserves a speedy dispatching. They are large animals and just don't "shock" like many other smaller animals. | |||
|
Moderator |
Woodrow, why would a half-inch, 440 grain flat-nosed bullet be any less effective on a body shot than a .30-06 shooting expanding bullets? I'll bet the .500 Mag get's an exit, while the '06 doesn't. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
With all due respect, Marko, I don't think Woodrow was talking about effectiveness at all. I just think he was talking about humane dispatch of a large animal. If you read about the buffalo hunters, a lot of them lobbed heavy lead bullets into the "boiler room" from a long way off and just waited for the bison to expire. Not sporting at all, but that was never the intent. In my estimation, a 220-grain '06 bullet of proper construction would drive all the way through a bison and exit, as would a 440-grain handgun bullet from the .500. But that wasn't the point, as I read it; it was all about quick humane dispatch of a huge animal with at least somewhat of a reputation for being a bit ornery when wounded... | |||
|
| Moderator |
He also specified that he wouldn't do it with a handgun. You are suggesting that he meant any gun. Not trying to be combative, just trying to understand his position. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
A 440 gr cast slug through the lungs is about as humane as you can get, & yes it will exit & the 30/06 bullet most likely won't exit. About 10 years ago a friend borrowed my Ruger SRH 480 using my 370 gr cast slugs. They were only doing about 1150 fps, one shot, exit & down & out in 4-5 seconds. He said its back legs both kicked the belly before it hit the ground. A head shot with a handgun can be a slippery slope. Dick | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have no doubt you have shot far more big game with a handgun than I ever will, but Dick, what is the basis for you stating that the rifle bullet "most likely won't exit"? Are we back to the momentum argument? Because there are records of 220-grain 30-'06 projectiles shooting through just about everything on four feet, and that was long before mono-metal projectiles... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Steel, My suggestion is to pick a load/bullet combination that you can apply well and repeatedly if necessary. I've shot the big Smith round with some 700 grainers and they are a handful. Recovery time is quite extended. Also not all guns will "like" them, being quite specialized in their design. I have friends who shoot Bison annually and get complete pass thru's with cartriges as "anemic" as the 41 magnum and "small" 265 grain slugs. Granted, many rounds don't make it thru, but their averages (number of rounds, pass thru's per kill) are on par with larger handgun rounds. Therefore, good bullets and good shooting are paramount factors. Remember to apply the things to the cardiovascular plumbing, not the wastewater plumbing and the big Smith will do the job. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Ok, here it is. If you are going to get up close and personal, why would you take a body shot when you can dispatch the bison behind the ear..easily and he is down like right now. In most cases a body shot won't drop that large of an animal all that quick...nowhere near as quick as that behind the ear shot. Can you imagine getting to within 10-15 yards of that bull and hit him with a body shot...and he does not go right down...he is going to be pretty pissed. Now YOU are on the run! I never said a body shot won't do the job..it likely won't be as quick or humane. I seen many that were body shot with rifles and handguns..sometimes it takes a while before they drop. I seen them taken as I stated and they ALWAYS go right down. If you can't make that shot at that range, you probably shouldn't be using a handgun in the first place. I have plenty of experience with big bore handguns..it ain't my first rodeo. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I accompanied a fellow in SA where his Giraffe took 10 solid body hits with a 500 S&W..all pass thru's too before it finally fell over dead. Not all animals react the same and I place a large bison bull in the same category as a bull Giraffe. Neither shock like many other animals....with a body hit(s) they die when no more blood is available for life support. That CAN take some time with these large animals. I have (4) 500 S&W's and they ain't magic. | |||
|
| Moderator |
I know that they aren't magic -- only the naive bought into the hype.  You are right that every animal reacts differently. I am a firm believer that every animal is a law unto itself. I saw a rather large bison hit with a 525 grain WLN (at a staggering 1,100 fps -- at the muzzle) from a .500 Linebaugh react quite noticeably with a body shot -- blood was pumping from both the entry and the exit and the animal was down within seconds of the one and only shot. But I've seem 'em not react to shots from rifles pushing a boatload more velocity. They all react differently. I just reject the idea that somehow we are giving something up to rifles when our big revolvers most certainly create a big wound channel and kill out of proportion to their paper ballistics. The caveat is that the right bullet needs to be used -- this applies to every firearm, but it is especially critical in a handgun where velocity potential is low. Hit 'em in the right spot, with the right bullet, and a dead animal is the result. So let me get this straight, you don't like the body shot at all whether hunting with a rifle or handgun when a head shot is available. Correct? Earlier you stated that you wouldn't use a handgun on an up close and personal body shot. That is all I was questioning. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
One of Us |
I would like to see the 30-06 cup and core 220 grain out pentrate one of these big bore revolver hard cast on game or in test medium. I would love to see that. I haven't seen it yet and doubt that it will The problem with the 500 S&W is that it has too much velocity for a hard cast bullet. At the top velocities of the S&W a Punch bullet would work better. In my experience when a hard cast (20 to 24 brinnel) is pushed past 1400 FPS penetration suffers because the spped is higher than the bullet material can with stand I have shot and seen shot a number of bison with revolver from 44 mag to the 500L and if the right bullet is choosen a body shot will put them on the ground rather quickly and without drama again that is in my experience YMMV..........  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
Correct. If you are close why take the body shot? A slug a few inches behind the ear and it's over. No need for another shot or to wish you were wearing running shoes  Besides, what challenge is there to walk up to within 10-15 yards and body shoot a 2000lb behemoth. You couldn't miss if you closed your eyes, drew the gun from the holster, pointed it and pulled the trigger. | |||
|
| One of Us |
+1 on cast bullet yield strength and impact velocites. It takes a good alloy and bullet design to withstand the stresses of high impact velocities. For the Original Poster, If it were me, I would select a good Cast bullet around 500 grains at 1250 fps. It would be managable in most all S&W platforms. | |||
|
Moderator |
Compared to African game, bison are made of foil and tissue. CSS in point. Eland bullet absorbed a 585 nyati at 35 yards and ran..blood trail wasn't what you would have expected . Broke on-side foreleg, bullet recovered and pictured on my website. 4 or 5 470 mbogo hits later ( memory fades) it went down. Bison .. 416 rigby, about 90 yards... Clean pass through, blood pumping out both sides, down and anchored in 20 ish yards.... Before I could be acknowledged to fire a finishing shoot. So sure... 500 sw would be fine as far as you can shoot it well opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
|
| Moderator |
Jeffe, bison get considerably larger than Cape buffalo, making it that much more bovine mass for a bullet to traverse. It's a good thing bison aren't typically as cantankerous as Cape buff -- they would be hell to stop. Also, I will put up a hefty wager that many of my revolver loads will handily out-penetrate many a DG rifle load. And when you're starting out at nearly a half-inch (or better), it will make a big hole by default. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've never shot one closer than 40 yards most farther _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
[quote]I would like to see the 30-06 cup and core 220 grain out pentrate one of these big bore revolver hard cast on game or in test medium. I would love to see that. I haven't seen it yet and doubt that it will [quote] Read my post again, JWP... I never claimed the 220 would "out-penetrate" the hard cast projectile, I simply stated my question as to why Dick thought the 220 wouldn't penetrate the other side... I really don't like it when someone skews my words. | |||
|
| One of Us |
So you guys think a 500 grain bullet might be more effective. so you think the 700 grain would not have enough penetration? I figured a bullet of that weight would stager him for sure. | |||
|
| Moderator |
steel, I penetration tested the 700 grainers and most exited the penetration box after turning. You'd be better served with a 500 grain bullet. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Steel, I recommend picking a copy of big bore revolvers, there is a chapter on the heavy weight bullets in the 500 Smith and loads more information, Its a must for your bookshelf. http://www.amazon.com/Big-Bore...Prasac/dp/1440228566 Simply, Elegant but always approachable | |||
|
| Moderator |
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that basis is experience. Momentum is not an argument; it is fact, plain and simple. If ignorance is bliss; there are some blissful sonofaguns around here. We know who you are, so no reason to point yourselves out. | |||
|
| One of Us |
what about a shoulder shot to stop him from charging? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Charging bears ... charging bison ...charging baloney. Pardon my boredom. If you're going to shoot a bull bison with your .500 S&W, do so. Forget "back-up" guns, whatever they are. Use a 400-440 gr. bullet, and place it broadside through the bison, behind the leg and 1/3 up the body through the lungs / top of the heart. He'll want to move away. If your shot is good, he'll die. If you need to, shoot him again until he does. I'm with Dick. Brain shots are trickier than heart / lung shots. If you're 100% confident in them, you already know that you are - and you wouldn't be asking. Practice the fundamentals of shooting your load from "close"... say 35 yards - out to 100 yards off your pack, off sticks etc. My buff hunting experience is limited, but I've shot a couple cape buffalo in Tanzania, several water buffalo in Argentina and Australia, Himalayan yak, and several North American bison, both bulls and cows, all at distances from 35 to nearly 100 yds. Most, but not all, were 1 shot kills. All were hit as I suggested, all died without drama. My handguns were .375 JDJ and .45-70 Contenders, a .475 Linebaugh FA and a .500 WE FA. No bullet weights exceeded 420 gr. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Good advice that is spot on........... _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
one of us |
Steel, a 440 gr.hard cast bullet will do the job just fine. No need to go up in weight. A broad side shot into the lungs will do the job, be ready for a quick follow up shot if needed. Good luck, and tell us how you did. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've shot bison and I seriously doubt if you can get within 15 yards of one. They're not that tame. Although they are rather stoic. I shot mine (only one) center of the neck right behind the head and he just folded up.IIRC the base of the ear marks the center of the neck. Another fellow on the same hunt shot his in the same place with a 30/06, 180 cor-loks, he also went straight down. I was shooting a favorite of mine, a custom 375 Weatherby with 300 gr. partitions, it almost took his head completely off, just hanging by the hide. I really believe center of the neck, right behind the ear is the best shot, guide told me that he might run a mile or two with a behind the shoulder shot. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
|
One of Us |
Yes, I can!  Alan  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Man, I love that photo, Alan! | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'm worried the neck shot may mess up my shoulder mount. | |||
|
| Moderator |
It shouldn't. A good taxidermist can mask the damage!! I found out the hard way! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well all the mounts my taxidermist had look really good even the customer mounts that were half finished, but ill see when I get my boar shoulder mount back in 2 weeks. If that comes out good I may feel confident in his skills and may go for a neck shot. It seems to be a safer shot if I will be close to the beast. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Whitworth is that a .475 or .500. either way looks great. | |||
|
| Moderator |
My signature picture is a .50 Alaskan. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
|
One of Us |
Don't worry about that. No damage that can't be repaired. | |||
|
| one of us |
I have shot exactly one buffalo with a .44 magnum handgun. I placed the first shot behind his shoulder at approximately 75 yards. He stayed on his feet and started pissing. I let him have five more in the same general area. As the sound of the last shot died away he dropped and was stone dead. I used 300 grain Hornady XTP's. Three penetrated completely. Three were found under the offside hide. | |||
|
| one of us |
I was present for the shooting of 4 buffalo, I took mine with a 45-70 4oo grain hard cast lead at 1350 fps at 75 yards, two hits neither bullet exited center chest shot The fellow I was with used a browning BAR 30-06 using 180 grain Failsafe. I watched from a different angle than what he shot from and he was at about 100yds. I could see and hear the bullets hit the grounds in the distance for the first three shots. I thought he was missing until I used my binoculars and could see the blood pumping out of three chest hits, the bison walked off and two more shots where taken at angle at a slightly longer range and all where past through . The bison joined the herd and walked off until it fell. All bullets where complete past through . The carcass weight was 720 pounds making the bison at about 1500 live NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
|
One of Us |
Now how can I keep lurking when ignorant statements like that are made. Neck shots are simply playing with your ass to begin with. A half in too high and you leave a wounded animal. An inch too low and you tear the esophogus or trachae and condemn the animal to a slow death from infection. But most of all, do you REALLY think that if I could grow hair and skin I'd waste my time dealing with trying to satisfy hunters by fixing their screw ups? There are absolutely some things that can't be repaired without replacing a hide or cape. Then I have to listen to the crying about what I charge to replace a cape. An animal with holes in both lungs doesn't go as far as one with a bullet through the heart, but BOTH don't go so far you can't trail them. If you can't make that shot, don't take it. If you can't hit the lungs of a bison, you don't need to be out there to begin with. OH, and any taxidermist who completes a job in two weeks is the last guy you should go to. Obviously he has no work and no work means he's just beginning or everyone else knows how bad his work is. Top end taxidermists in single owner/operator shops are going to run from 6 months (early season animals) to one year. If he's over a year, time to look around. He needs to hire employees. RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
|
| One of Us |
C'mon man! As an experienced taxidermist, you couldn't repair bullet damage, ((from a revolver round yet) on a bison?!!!!!! An ignorant statement?!!!! George, wake up! Taxidermist (specialist) | |||
|
One of Us |
I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting SW .500 revolver for my upcoming bison hunt.
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia