For those of you who have shot a 475 and 500 whatever, do you think the 50 caliber rounds have a more decisive effect at bringing down game or dangerous animals than a 475? Looking at factory loads, the 475 can go up to 440 grain bullets. Do the 50 caliber rounds offer enough increase in bullet weight to have a greater effect on game than the 475?

In a word, yes - IMHO. The .50 cals, even at moderate velocities just hit hard. I shoot a 500 grain LFN at 1,100 fps and it is not only accurate at range, it's a hammer.

I don't have the experience of Whit but any of those cartridges (475 LB, 500 LB, 500 JRH etc., etc.) are real hammers. Shoot a fully stoked 475 and see what you think.

Landrum

P.S. With that said, I have a 475 Linebaugh and soon will have a JRH too.

If you can hit what you're aiming at with either the .475 or .500....I am sure it will stop what it hits. Those are both very potent rounds

I should caution that these hammers, at least IMHO, hammer at both ends. A max 475 Linebaugh load is not something that I am going to take to the range and shoot a couple of hundred rounds through. I am sure that jwp and others do this routinely however, but then, they are real men! So, choose something that has good mid range load capability, as well as the max mastodon hunting loads, then see which loads you shoot most often.
Peter.

When I wanted something bigger than the 44 Mag, I went to the 475 Linebaugh.

I did so for 2 reasons:
I wanted a Freedom Arms revolver and was offered one at a good price.

Also I had done some research and from what I read the 475L gave a fair amount more penetration, than the 500L.

I am a big believer in Penetration, and for some of the game I wanted to shoot Penetration was a big factor.

I have not been disapointed.

quote:

When I wanted something bigger than the 44 Mag, I went to the 475 Linebaugh.

I did so for 2 reasons:
I wanted a Freedom Arms revolver and was offered one at a good price.

Also I had done some research and from what I read the 475L gave a fair amount more penetration, than the 500L.

I am a big believer in Penetration, and for some of the game I wanted to shoot Penetration was a big factor.

I have not been disapointed.

That was the belief in the begining, but the 525 grain WLFN at 1100 FPS from the 500L will outpenetrate the 420 LFN from the 475 at 1383 FPS. At least it did at the Linebaugh Seminar in Jackson, Miss a feww years ago, both were my revolvers and ammo


I shot the Bull with the 525 WLFN from the 500L at 1100 FPS and the bullet exited




Either one properly loaded will not disapoint one on game and that is for sure and for certain

quote:

Originally posted by Scorpulus:
For those of you who have shot a 475 and 500 whatever, do you think the 50 caliber rounds have a more decisive effect at bringing down game or dangerous animals than a 475? Looking at factory loads, the 475 can go up to 440 grain bullets. Do the 50 caliber rounds offer enough increase in bullet weight to have a greater effect on game than the 475?

I will not say that the 50's kill quicker but I will say that the visual effect of the bullet hitting is greater

Back when I was doing my research the General info was that the 475 was the deeper penetrator of the two.

Especially on things like elephant heads...

Never shot an Elephants head, but the 50 Cal "Punch" Bullet out of the 500L is an outstanding penetrator and will out penetrate the best hard cast

Yes, common knowledge was the .475 out penetrated the 500. These days, with the .51 caliber bullets available this simply is no longer the case.

The 475L and the 50's and 51's mentioned can all be loaded to kill anything on earth decisively. "Better" likely depends on all the circumstances in play on that particular shot and animal.
I've shot large water buffalo and bison with both the .475L and the .500 WE, as well as various other large animals, and have been satisfied with both.
Penetration? I have a .475L 420 WFN hardcast bullet that hit an Argentine water buffalo in a frontal chest shot, traversed the body cavity to the right hip, where it turned and went down to the right "knee" joint - a total of seven feet of penetration. I've had full penetration on .475L 400's and 420's as well as .500's as light as 370 on bison.
I like 'em all.

It's called splittin hairs. Both the 475's and the 500/510 caliber cartridges are sledgehammers on game.

It's also called 6 of one & 1/2 dozen of another.

i'm gonna dissent, you'll never notice the difference except the 475 has a significantly better trajectory and is much easier to hit with at unknown distances.

you can't compare how a cartridge "hits" an animal unless it's the same animal, the same angle and the same everything really. the percentage of difference of frontal diameter b/w the two is very very very small. imho a faster 475 hits like a slower bigger 500 but with a significantly improved trajectory. those that love the 500's will tell ya one thing, 475 fans will tell ya another.



as far as the newspaper testing goes, it's the least scientific testing available and not much should be read into it imho, speaking from a scientific standpoint.

What about someone like me who has both and uses them extensively? My .500 Linebaugh shoots great at distance and still hits hard despite the scorching (1,100 fps!!!! ) velocity. I sight in for the same ranges as my .475 (my former .475.... ), and despite the put-put velocities, it doesn't lob the rounds in like a mortar and is quite accurate out past 100 yards. I don't really think the word "flat" should be associated with any revolver trajectories. But that's just me.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
i'm gonna dissent, you'll never notice the difference except the 475 has a significantly better trajectory and is much easier to hit with at unknown distances.

you can't compare how a cartridge "hits" an animal unless it's the same animal, the same angle and the same everything really. the percentage of difference of frontal diameter b/w the two is very very very small. imho a faster 475 hits like a slower bigger 500 but with a significantly improved trajectory. those that love the 500's will tell ya one thing, 475 fans will tell ya another.



as far as the newspaper testing goes, it's the least scientific testing available and not much should be read into it imho, speaking from a scientific standpoint.

I have both, owning a .475 long before I aquired a .500L, and to claim that a .475 is easier to hit with at longer ranges is ridiculous as I have hit with the .500 as far as with the 475. The longer barrel time gives the appereance of flatter trajectory.

The .500 hits harder and it is easy to see, even "Ray Charles" could see it.

well, whit, i know you use both extensively, but i know just as many of us that have shot both and do feel there's a distinct difference in trajectory. my dead on range is vastly different b/w the two and no offense, i've never particularly liked the 500 linebaugh anyway.

anytime you know the drop you can hit at any range, it's the unknown distances that are where the advantages are seen.

I have a .475 with a 6" and a .500L with a 6" barrel both are zeroed at the same distance. While shooting at an Antelope silhouette at 500 yards the amount of front sight over the rear was the same for both. The .475 was shooting at 420 grain LFN at 1,380 FPS and the .500L a 525 WLFN at 1,100 FPS.

that just means there's more going on recoilwise than one would imagine, bullet drop on that 500 load is almost double at simply 150 yards.

That just means he held the same amount of front blade for both revolvers to hit the antelope silhouette. There is a difference between "shooting both" and using both calibers extensively.

If you don't know the distances you are shooting, try getting and using a laser range finder.

quote:

Originally posted by tradmark:
that just means there's more going on recoilwise than one would imagine, bullet drop on that 500 load is almost double at simply 150 yards.

Double what, if I may ask? I don't know why this is an issue in any case. It all depends on the distance you sight your revolver for. I don't think someone necessarily has an advantage with a fast-stepping .454 at 150 yards than a .500 Linebaugh with a 500 grain bullet at a much lower velocity, and I will put my money on the .500's terminal effects over smaller, lighter, and faster.

Can we just get some facts here ie. here is a target showing my 500XXX sighted is at 75 yards. Bullet weight is YYY, velocity at 10 feet was ZZZ. Here is a target showing POI of the same gun holding exactly on POA at 200 yards?
I for one would be interested in seeing this.
Ditto for the 475 L.
Peter.

The trajectory is just dependant on the ballistic coeffciant(BC), muzzle velocity, the sight height and the range it's zero'd at.

Plug all of that into a ballistics program and compare.
The heavier bullets will be longer and probably have a higher BC, so they will lose less velocity and fly flatter at longer ranges.
A higher muzzle velocity will give a flatter trajectory, but if the bullet has a low BC it will start to lose velocity and drop more at range.

Soo... a slow heavy bullet could have a flatter trajectory at long range.

it's got nearly double the drop of the faster 475 rounds, it does have significantly more than double the drop of the faster 454 rounds. basically i've always seen it like this.....i sight in and have a point blank range of wherever the bullet never goes more than 2" high and where it never goes more than 3" low if held dead on the vitals. this basically means some rounds can be sighted in at 75 yards, some at 100, etc.

if sighted in at 75 yards, that 500L round is already lower than that by about 90 yards or so. which means shooting offhand if you think a small deer is 80 yards away, but is really 110 yards away you may fall outside the vitals, if there's a subtle draw and now it's 120 yards away, you miss. with a 475 or 454 i still have my deer. if this is not an issue, fine, but for many of us, we'll take every bit of the odds being stacked in our favor we can get.



as far as terminal results......i'm not sure how one even quantifies that but so far in the last 10 years i've had one animal go over 20 yards, and i pushed it hard on that one, and none over 70 yards and that includes large buff, and a bunch of over 500lbers' (numerous elk, numerous buffalo, probably nearly 50-60 large hogs) and i've never had anything deer sized even take a step when i've shot it with my 454 so i'm not sure how you can wish for more of anything over that. it may equal it perhaps but you sure can't improve on it. i know i didn't improve on it when i went and shot a 475 for awhile or when i went to a 500 smith. not sure where the 500L magic kicks in but i'd be interested to see.

Do you have a .500 Linebaugh? Have you hunted with one? If you answered no to either of these questions, then the solution is to get one. Seriously. Try it, tradmark, you may like it!

Now, these drop figures, are they from a ballistics program, or did you actually do a drop test? Tell me you didn't rely on a program to give you these figures. Those programs don't take barrel time or recoil into consideration and these factors are certainly significant.

These big, heavy bullets don't bleed of velocity like the faster ones do, and they fly really well at distance -- you need to try it before drawing a conclusion. JMHO.

i've had all the major big bore pistol calibers including a 475 wildey except the 500 jrh. my favorites have been the 454 and the 475. now, don't for a second think i didn't like the 500L. to me, and for what i do with a pistol, it's just more limited.

as far as barrel time, etc. that just makes midrange trajectory higher. the increased barrel time of a 500L doesn't make it fly flatter, the drop is the drop. that just the ballistic programs do give an accurate idea of what's happening with the bullet and will accurately tell ya what's going on with drop. i've confirmed this using scopes and an encore rifle, i invested over a 1500 bucks in barrels to investigate this. also bought two lovell scope mounts for FA pistols and two scopes to do the range tests.

quote:

it's got nearly double the drop of the faster 475 rounds, it does have significantly more than double the drop of the faster 454 rounds. basically i've always seen it like this.....i sight in and have a point blank range of wherever the bullet never goes more than 2" high and where it never goes more than 3" low if held dead on the vitals. this basically means some rounds can be sighted in at 75 yards, some at 100, etc.

if sighted in at 75 yards, that 500L round is already lower than that by about 90 yards or so. which means shooting offhand if you think a small deer is 80 yards away, but is really 110 yards away you may fall outside the vitals, if there's a subtle draw and now it's 120 yards away, you miss. with a 475 or 454 i still have my deer. if this is not an issue, fine, but for many of us, we'll take every bit of the odds being stacked in our favor we can get.



as far as terminal results......i'm not sure how one even quantifies that but so far in the last 10 years i've had one animal go over 20 yards, and i pushed it hard on that one, and none over 70 yards and that includes large buff, and a bunch of over 500lbers' (numerous elk, numerous buffalo, probably nearly 50-60 large hogs) and i've never had anything deer sized even take a step when i've shot it with my 454 so i'm not sure how you can wish for more of anything over that. it may equal it perhaps but you sure can't improve on it. i know i didn't improve on it when i went and shot a 475 for awhile or when i went to a 500 smith. not sure where the 500L magic kicks in but i'd be interested to see.

I know for a fact that shooting my 500L with a 435 at 1350 and the 525 at 1100 FPS thye shoot with about the same sight picture at distance qs does my 475: with the 420 LFN at 1380

I have shot mine many times at unknown distances and find little difference at all,I didn't get my info from a table I actuallu shot them

Is there possibly something here that is not being considered by some???

It is RECOIL. I have not shot a 500, I do have a 475. I do understand ballistics, and I do know a 454, and a 475 will have a flatter trajectory, "mathamateticly" [sp], but I think the 500 guys are saying that with the increased recoil of the 500, even if you are sighted in for a specific distance, well and good, however since the barrel, and thus the "sight line" of the 500 rises more in recoil, vs the 475, that it caused your longer range impact point to be not in line with the scientific figures baised on simple ballistics...

In short because of the higher recoil the 500 hits "flatter" at a distance, than its book ballistics would indicate...

I can see how this would be true, as even with rifles shot at a distance, 2 people shooting the same rifle, with the same loads, with the same scope settings, can have a fairly large difference in impact point.

Also with ME shooting the same rifle, same ammo, at 100 yards there was a definate 1 MOA change in impact point between shooting off a harris bipod, vs shooting with a hard hasty sling.

Also, I found that shooting at 500 Meters with a 308, I shoot 2 minutes higher off hand [that is about 11 inches higher], than if I shoot the same rifle and ammo off a bench...

This test I have repeated several times...

The only difference is the difference in recoil movement, [muzzle rise] between shooting off hand and from the sand bags on the bench.

I am back after a complete computer failure! Lost everything.
Recoil rise is not a factor at range because it is adjusted out at the sight in distance. Sight for 50 yards and recoil rise is no different at 200 yards. From then on it is only what the boolit does.
I sighted the .500 JRH at 50 yards, I hit just below center at 100 and it drops 20" at 200.
To say recoil changes POI at distance is wrong because it has been compensated for when sighting in.
To have a gun with more recoil hit high, what do you do? Keep it up or adjust the sights? Once adjusted, does recoil keep raising the POI as distance increases? Get real.

The 500 JRH's velocity is about the same as the 475 and therefore will shoot at 200 yards about the same.

You need to compare the 500L with the 500 to 525 grain bullet at about 1100 FPS and you will see for yourself

Take a slower load in the 500 JRH and it will shoot higher than it does now

quote:

Posted 11 September 2011 20:16 Hide Post
The 500 JRH's velocity is about the same as the 475 and therefore will shoot at 200 yards about the same.

You need to compare the 500L with the 500 to 525 grain bullet at about 1100 FPS and you will see for yourself

Take a slower load in the 500 JRH and it will shoot higher than it does now

Do you not adjust the sights for each boolit weight?
You are doing nothing but comparing one weight against another with the same sight settings.
I learned that sights have adjustments when I shot my first gun! I learned that no two bullets hit the same place.

Until you shoot the 500L against the 475 at distance you do not know

It seems like what BFR said is that the muzzle rise is compensated for with the sights and sight in distance. Gravity is a constant

I know what he is saying and I also know what I have seen from actually shooting the 2 at 500 yards.

Maybe the ballistic coefficient isn't estimated correctly for the long heavy bullets?
It seems like a ballistic program should be able to model what is going on with the sight in distance and the rise and fall at one or two other points. I don't think the difference is in the caliber, .475, .500, or .510, but with the weight and BC of the bullet. Shouldn't we get the same effect with a .475 500gn bullet, or a .458 500 in a 45-70 BFR?
I'm in the middle of moveing currently so I don't have any time to load and get to the range.

How I would love to see 500 yard groups shot, drop figures posted. Most do not know that meters is different then yards.

quote:

Originally posted by bfrshooter:
How I would love to see 500 yard groups shot, drop figures posted. Most do not know that meters is different then yards.

Whitworth has a 500L shoot it for drop and report

The 45-70 BFR drops about 16" at 200, the .475 and the .500 JRH are about 20" each, the .44 mag is about 35" and the .22 pistol is 53".
We could not hit anything today with the .500 JRH. I found the ring screws had come loose and the base screws were loose even with red Loc-tite and Loc-tite primer. Screws were held with torque and hit with a hammer too.
I just put epoxy on the base screws and will change rings.