Ok guys, I just got challenged by my best friend to use my 4-5/8" NMBH in 45LC when we go back up to Alaska Sept 2013 for grizzly. I'm up for the task; I think. If you all recall, I shot my 62" moose from 15 yds with it in 2008.

I recently pulled my Trijicon RedDot off as it suddenly shifted POI with no discernible reason. After fiddling with it without successfully fixing it, I've lost my faith in it, fearing it might have a repeat at the worst time possible.

So, back to iron sights and my "not so great" eye sight. I'll fiddle with the proper perscription to find what will work best. My question is this.

I can load either 335 gr WFN LBT @ 1106 fps for 285 gr WFN LBT @ 1134 fps.

Guessing my max range with my eyes would be 75 yds, which bullet would you use and why? Their both great shooters just prefer the 285 gr.

JWP475, IIRC, you may be the only AR member here that has shot grizzly with their open sighted handgun. Please forgive, someone else here has shot grizzly with their handgun.

I prefer to carry in my Mernickle Field Carry II in cross draw fashion.

http://www.mernickleholsters.com/fc/fc2.html

Alan

Oh, and my bud with be right behind me with my Pre 64 M70 in 9.3x62 for back up

PS: I can run faster than he can

I would think the 335gr would have more bone-crushing penetration and you can't have too much of that with big bears. That's what I shoot in my FA 454 Casull for this very reason. Even hard cast bullets will deform and/or shear off some of it's mass when hitting big, heavy bones and with the 335gr there is more allowance for this without having negative effects on straight-line penetration.

If I had to use a .45 Colt, I'd prefer the 335 for the extra momentum. By the way, I suspect there's quite a difference in point of impact @ say 50 yds. between the 2 bullets.
Thankfully, I don't have to use a .45 Colt, and I wouldn't. There can be a significant size difference between the larger coastal brown bears and the smaller inland brown / grizzly bears (Alaska calls 'em all brown bears), which are more the size of large 7'+ black bears.
The only 2 coastal browns I've shot were with a .416 Rem. Mag. If I were to do it again, I'd use a .475 L, as I have with large black bears, with a 400 -420 @ 1300 fps. But that's me.

I would prefer the 335 myself but I'd also try Double Taps 360wln offering.They(in my guns)have been accurate and penetration has been excellent.A personal handload I like in a gun similar to yours is a 350gr cast over 22grs of H110 for 1200fps and has been devestating on everything it has come in contact with.(This load has been safe in my gun)

Having said all that and now owning a 475L,it is higher on the food chain and would be my first choice.

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Ok guys, I just got challenged by my best friend to use my 4-5/8" NMBH in 45LC when we go back up to Alaska Sept 2013 for grizzly. I'm up for the task; I think. If you all recall, I shot my 62" moose from 15 yds with it in 2008.

I recently pulled my Trijicon RedDot off as it suddenly shifted POI with no discernible reason. After fiddling with it without successfully fixing it, I've lost my faith in it, fearing it might have a repeat at the worst time possible.

So, back to iron sights and my "not so great" eye sight. I'll fiddle with the proper perscription to find what will work best. My question is this.

I can load either 335 gr WFN LBT @ 1106 fps for 285 gr WFN LBT @ 1134 fps.

Guessing my max range with my eyes would be 75 yds, which bullet would you use and why? Their both great shooters just prefer the 285 gr.

JWP475, IIRC, you may be the only AR member here that has shot grizzly with their open sighted handgun. Please forgive, someone else here has shot grizzly with their handgun.

I prefer to carry in my Mernickle Field Carry II in cross draw fashion.

http://www.mernickleholsters.com/fc/fc2.html

Alan

Oh, and my bud with be right behind me with my Pre 64 M70 in 9.3x62 for back up

PS: I can run faster than he can

First I want to wish you a good hunt and a safe trip. I believe that I would go for the 335 grain bullet. Isn't that the bullet that you used on the Moose?



Cottonstalk has taken several big balck bears with the 45 Colt.

I only have experience hunting black bear with a revolver, but I think there is a difference between shooting bears and shooting ruminants. I would defiantly want the heavier bullet.
The bears will be fattened up for the winter and you will need the penetration of a really heavy bullet. I think I would want someone behind me with a really, really big rifle . Good luck on your trip.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:


First I want to wish you a good hunt and a safe trip. I believe that I would go for the 335 grain bullet. Isn't that the bullet that you used on the Moose?



Cottonstalk has taken several big balck bears with the 45 Colt.

jwp475,

Yes, I did use that bullet to take my moose in 2008.




My outfitter guided this 6'5" tall hunter to this 9'+ grizzly bear this year so I the 335 gr would indeed be prudent.



Alan

Dang, that picture is awesome of your moose! The grizz as well......

You can't shoot nothin' bigger than that! Damn! What a Griz and Moose. Looks like the 45 has enough ass!

quote:

Ok guys, I just got challenged by my best friend to use my 4-5/8" NMBH in 45LC when we go back up to Alaska Sept 2013 for grizzly.

Pardon me for asking but are you sure that he is your best friend?

Nice job on the moose, however you have bigger ones than me for going after a grizzly with that handshooter. Did you see how long those claws are on the picture of the bear you posted?

Hopefully you will have a large rifle back up.

That wouldn't be my first choice to intentionally carry into the bush after Grizz.
Will it work...probably...just wouldn't be my first choice. Or Second, or third...
I doubt you'll be getting within 15 yds. of a Grizzly Bear for your first shot...at least you better HOPE you don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Edwards:
That wouldn't be my first choice to intentionally carry into the bush after Grizz.
Will it work...probably...just wouldn't be my first choice. Or Second, or third...
I doubt you'll be getting within 15 yds. of a Grizzly Bear for your first shot...at least you better HOPE you don't.

Why not, Don? I'll bet a beer that the .45 Colt loaded as such will dump that bear as quickly as many rifles that are considered "acceptable" calibers and probably produce two holes unlike many "acceptable" rifle/caliber/load/bullet combinations.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Don Edwards:
That wouldn't be my first choice to intentionally carry into the bush after Grizz.
Will it work...probably...just wouldn't be my first choice. Or Second, or third...
I doubt you'll be getting within 15 yds. of a Grizzly Bear for your first shot...at least you better HOPE you don't.

Why not, Don? I'll bet a beer that the .45 Colt loaded as such will dump that bear as quickly as many rifles that are considered "acceptable" calibers and probably produce two holes unlike many "acceptable" rifle/caliber/load/bullet combinations.

You might want to bet a beer but GSSP is betting a wee bit more than that.....his life.

I guess that's why I don't gamble.

I do hope that he gets his bear next September and that everything works out for his best interest

You're missing my point. That .45 is every bit as effective as many "acceptable" rifle rounds. Do you think that monster moose he shot with his .45 Colt is any less difficult to put down than a bear? You still have to place your shots and a revolver is a bit harder to master than a scoped rifle, but most of the folks that post on this particular forum have dedicated their time to the craft of handgun hunting. TEANCUM, do you handgun hunt? Just asking, so I can better understand your perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
You're missing my point. That .45 is every bit as effective as many "acceptable" rifle rounds. Do you think that monster moose he shot with his .45 Colt is any less difficult to put down than a bear? You still have to place your shots and a revolver is a bit harder to master than a scoped rifle, but most of the folks that post on this particular forum have dedicated their time to the craft of handgun hunting. TEANCUM, do you handgun hunt? Just asking, so I can better understand your perspective.

Your missing my point. I do indeed handgun hunt. Great shot on the moose indeed. Do you not think there is a more danger factor with a Grizzly bear than a moose. I do.

I wish the lad luck and safety.

Absolutely there is more danger involved, but I don't think he is under-gunned carrying a .45 Colt. No one would give it a second thought if he had chosen a .338 to go after the bear, but when it's a revolver that is the chosen tool, somehow he is putting himself in more danger. I guess I have more faith in the .45 Colt than many.

I'm all over using different calibers for hunting purposes. Remember me....I'm the guy that shoots deer with a hot .223 and takes a lot of flack from the peanut boys about being under-gunned. I don't feel I am with my experience, training and practice but apparently some do.

I've taken a lot of big game critters with a bow and that includes 5 large black bears. Some would say using a bow is being under-gunned, I don't. I was an excellent competitive proven archer. I've seen a buddy get a torn up leg from an injured big black bear. I don't like bears period. They are much harder to kill than almost anything from my experience including moose. Yes I took a moose with a .270. Now many will say that's under gunned.

I just have a thing about grizzly/brown bears. Never want to hunt them. They scare me. My comfort round for them would be my .416 Rem Mag. 400g bullet at 2400fps 5300ftlbs energy

Everyone is different and maybe everyone is scared of different things. For me it's bears. Maybe nothing frightens you.

I have owned 3 Ruger Blackhawks all 45 Colt. I currently have a Freedom Model 83-454. I am about to close the deal on a Super Blackhawk Hunter-45 Colt. I have taken hogs, deer and a Deere with my 45s. If this were a discussion on the almighty 44mag, 240gr at 1200 would be more than adequate, the poor 45 Colt with 335gr at 1100 is shunned....you gotta be kidding me!

I would use the heaviest bullet my barrel would stabilise at the range I intended to hunt and the most accurate load I could develop. The bullet I prefer for my 45 Colt is a 325-327gr from Hunters Supply. I am a bit biased though because I have gone shooting with JR a couple times. Wish he still lived in Texas.

335@ 1100 sounds like a dream. Yes, by all means use that load bear will be D I D dead.

Post pics!

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
I'm all over using different calibers for hunting purposes. Remember me....I'm the guy that shoots deer with a hot .223 and takes a lot of flack from the peanut boys about being under-gunned. I don't feel I am with my experience, training and practice but apparently some do.

Enough already! You aren't up to the task. This is fine; just don't continue to try and impose your limitations on others. You can't or won't do it; that's great. Some of us actually know what a properly loaded .45 Colt is capable of in the hands of one who can use it properly. Also, those of us of actually know; know it is more effective than a .44 Mag and as effective as many "accepted" calibers as Whitworth wrote.

If you came to this forum to stir the pot, do so at your own risk. Vapodog came here trying to act an expert and got his ass handed back to him on a paper napkin.

quote:

If you came to this forum to stir the pot, do so at your own risk. Vapodog came here trying to act an expert and got his ass handed back to him on a paper napkin.

A paper napkin? What happened to the "silver platter"

quote:

What happened to the "silver platter"

The recession has hit everyone, even AR.

GSSP,

I still remember your moose story from a few years ago; that was the hunt of a lifetime! I hope that your grizzly hunt goes just as well. I don't have any .45 Colt experience on game (just paper) so I can't comment on how well it will work on grizzly. I have participated in the killing of two brown bears and they are certainly not bulletproof but they can take awhile to go down. However, one of the hunters in camp dropped his bear in its tracks with one shot.

Best of luck with whatever you decide!

Please, have every faith that should I be able to pull this off, either the outfitter with his Marlin 1895 in 45-70 or my best bud with my Pre 64 M70 in 9.3x62, will directly behind or near me, backing me up.

Alan

I have faith in your shooting as well, Alan. Give 'em hell!

BTW, Ross Seyfried took a Cape buffalo with a .45 Colt and no back-up.

I'm sure you can do this, otherwise you would not be considering it.

I get irritated when some people try and push their limitations onto others.

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Please, have every faith that should I be able to pull this off, either the outfitter with his Marlin 1895 in 45-70 or my best bud with my Pre 64 M70 in 9.3x62, will directly behind or near me, backing me up.

Alan

That good to hear. But that's just my opinion.

Are divergent opinions allowed here?

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

Are divergent opinions allowed here?

NO! STEP BACK IN LINE!

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

quote:

Originally posted by GSSP:
Please, have every faith that should I be able to pull this off, either the outfitter with his Marlin 1895 in 45-70 or my best bud with my Pre 64 M70 in 9.3x62, will directly behind or near me, backing me up.

Alan

That good to hear. But that's just my opinion.

Are divergent opinions allowed here?

Yes, and I may have read more into your post than you intended.

Picked up a new Williams Shooters Supply, 5.5" NMBH Bisley to make the wait for the hunt more tolerable. Already swapped out the taller Clements front sight.



335 gr, 280 gr and 230 gr (acp); all LBT's.

Alan

Alan, that is a very sharp looking Bisley, congratulations! Is using it a possibility for the bear hunt? I can't wait to hear about your hunt and I can't believe that you're gonna make us wait until 2013 for the report. Can't you reschedule it for next year?!

That is VERY nice, Alan!!

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
That is VERY nice, Alan!!

Yes indeed.........

quote:

Originally posted by x-caliber:
Alan, that is a very sharp looking Bisley, congratulations! Is using it a possibility for the bear hunt? I can't wait to hear about your hunt and I can't believe that you're gonna make us wait until 2013 for the report. Can't you reschedule it for next year?!

X,

Yes, Yes, I bought it solely for the Alaska grizzly hunt. I'd always wanted one but wasn't willing to pay a premium for a used one that Lipsey's(?) put out a few years back. I got it for my dealer price of $410. Yes, I'm an FFL!

Sorry, we looked into 2012 but with my wife's recent (2nd) heart attack and subsequent triple bypass, I think 2012 would be too soon. She's been on dialysis for almost 3 years with practically zero chances of a kidney transplant.

Alan

So sorry to hear about your wife, Alan.

Yes, grizzlies are much harder to kill than moose of any size.

Moose are actually pound-for-pound the biggest wooses of the deer family in many ways.

More importantly, bull moose normally (except perhaps in the rut) tend to protect themselves by quickly disappering if they can. Cows protecting an unweened calf are sometimes more contrary.

Grizz, being of a different inherent nature entirely, tend to defend themselves by reacting violently toward & upon any reachable perceived close-by danger.

That is especially true of each if they are wounded. Wounded bull moose tend to immediately seek heavy cover and lie down.

Grizzly or Brown bears commonly react with great anger when they feel pain. Perhaps that is because big bear aren't afraid of very many other animals, and are used to being in charge of their terrain.

Any bush hunter needs to remember that when deciding when, how, and where to take his shot(s).

I think the .45 Colt is perfectly capable of killing big bears when properly loaded and used prudently under competent management.

But as others have mentioned, it might not be my first choice among handguns. Would depend on what else I had available and was fully competent in the use of.

Anyway, with the kind of backup he will have, things should turn out fine, as he is apparently well-experienced in the use of his handguns and appears to be going to take good care in choosing his ammunition specifically for its intended purpose.

Will be interesting to get the post-hunt wrapup.

I wasn't drawing a comparison in temperaments, merely in difficulty to penetrate. Alan's moose is one very large animal.

And I wasn't saying a .45 Colt with good loads has inadequate penetration.

You did ask if grizzlies are harder to kill (put down) than his big moose, and the answer is very definitely "yes", no matter how large the moose.

For whatever reason(s) they seem much more tenaciously "attached" to life. And even if they weren't, one would probably want to use as good a artridge as they had at hand. Grizzlies, unlike moose, are very vindictive towards those who attempt to harm or kill them.

I wasn't criticising or supporting anyone's posts, just answering the question.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
And I wasn't saying a .45 Colt with good loads has inadequate penetration.

You did ask if grizzlies are harder to kill (put down) than his big moose, and the answer is very definitely "yes", no matter how large the moose.

For whatever reason(s) they seem much more tenaciously "attached" to life. And even if they weren't, one would probably want to use as good a artridge as they had at hand. Grizzlies, unlike moose, are very vindictive towards those who attempt to harm or kill them.

I wasn't criticising or supporting anyone's posts, just answering the question.

I taken 2 grizzly's 1 with a handgun and 1 with a rifle. No drama at all and both went right down when a proper bullet is inserted in the proper location it is game over








IME Moose are larger and more difficult to penetrate

Just shows the problems with anecdotal evidence, not just yours and mine, but everyones'. We all run into and shoot animals in other than identical circumstances.

I have killed a bunch of moose, and guided folks to others which they killed, and I never found moose difficult to penetrate. As you said, it is putting the (first) bullet in the right place (or not) which makes a lot of difference.

I will stick to my belief that grizzly are harder to put out of action quickly than are moose, and that it is even more important, generally, to do so. You, of course, are welcome to believe otherwise, based on your different experiences.

Alberta Canuck, how many have you taken with a handgun if I may ask?

How many what?

And while we're at it, what has that got to do with judging how hard they are to penetrate?

As I've already said, I am sure the .45 Colt has plenty of penetration with the right loads to penetrate either moose or grizzly.

I am not going to get into a pissing contest with any of you guys. I was simply observing that grizzlies are not as easy to stop as moose are. That was intended only as a personal observation of what I would want to use if I were doing it myself. And that would be the most potent handgun I had that I felt fully the master of.

You can use whatever you want. No argument here.