Thanks for the replies to the .45LC thread ... very helpful.

Here's the deal. I want to get a handgun for hunting big game (deer-sized). I'm attracted to the Ruger Blackhawk, but we're not married. Ditto the .45LC, which would be nice as I'd like to evetually aquire other guns in the same caliber, and it'd be "handy" in that regard.

So ... for a new handgunner (not entirely new -- just to using them to hunt) what make/model/caliber suggestions do you have?

If you like the Blackhawk, you can get one for $400 or less in 45LC, if you look. I personally like mine in 41 mag. It will do everything I need. I don't care for the factory grips, so I put Hogues on mine and it is a delight to shoot. Then there is always the 44.

if you like blackhawks you might want to check out the bisley a much more comfortable gripframe

I would just stick to the Ruger Blackhawk.

I think the Blackhawk is a super choice. It's super strong, and every one I have been in contact with has been accurate. Plus, the .45 is a very versatile round........

I am veary partial to the Bisley grip a superb choice IMHO

I have the Blackhawk with the 5 1/2 " bbl. which I feel is the best bbl. length with Packmeyer grips, I also have the .45 acp cylinder for it which can save you some money whether you reload on not.
I have only taken 3 wild boar with mine, but it really hammered them and I was using cast lead bullets and only pushing them at 900 & 1100 FPS (I couldn't tell the difference in killing power between the 2 loads, all were total pass through.
With the Ruger Blackhawk you can do the cheap mans trigger job (BE CAREFULL)-----take one leg of the trigger return spring off. This will really lighten the trigger (BE CAREFULL)

Hip

P.S. Another thing that MAY have to be done is to have a higher front sight sight installed---I had to so heavy loads would shoot to point of aim!

Hip

I think the Blackhawk is a fine choice.
I think the 5.5" barrel is the easiest to carry, but the 7.5" has a longer sight radius...I sold my 7.5" and chose the 5.5" barrel.

Not to start another argument......I'm a 45LC fan...but there are others out there that definately perform!

Personally, my revolvers are used at bow hunting distances or maybe a little farther.
I'm not looking for 100yd shots out of my wheelguns...I have other pistols to reach that far and farther.

The 357 is helluva killer, its just not a long range killer.
The 41 has been a killer for years with a sort of silent following. My buddy had one that he seemed to kill everything with, very impressive.
The 44 of course kills everything, I just feel the recoil of the 44 is ALOT more than my 45...even my hotter loaded 45LC.


Just my 2 cents...enjoy.

I've taken deer and deer sized game with a 357 magnum and 44 magnum T/C Contender, 45 Colt Ruger Bisley, and a 44 magnum S&W Mtn Gun. They all work but count me among those who much prefer the Bisley grip shape when it comes to single actions in general and hard kickers in particular. YMMV though so see if you can handle (better yet shoot) both before you decide. If you want to use stiff loads in your first 45 Colt be sure to get an older large-frame Blackhawk or the Bisley, not Ruger's new smaller cowboyish job. If you're going to use iron sights then more sight radius is better even at bowhunting distances, but the shorter barrels make for a much handier belt gun. Have fun shopping.

deertick congrats on blackhawk you can always buy a bisley gripframe later from brownell's

A lot of guys like the Bisley but I DON'T because of my large hands. If your hands are big, forget it because they HURT the middle knuckle. I prefer the hogleg with Pachmeyer grips. I MUST get away from the trigger guard.
But if your hands are small the Bisley works fine. Don't take what others say unless you can try each one to see what you like. The Bisley is not a cure all for recoil. I think it is an abortion of the finest grip ever designed.
The "roll in the hand stuff" is crap. The proper grip on the hogleg will not "roll", your whole arm will rise. The Bisley tends to be grip sensitive too and must be held EXACTLY the same shot to shot.
Do not make a hasty decision based on what others like, no one has the same hands.

Nor should you make a hasty decision based on the dislikes of others.

I think another good choice would be the Ruger Hunter model which is available in 41, 44, and 45. That way you have the option to add a scope later on if you so desire. Good luck.

well bfr you are the first and only person that i ever heard of complaining about a bisley frame i also have big hands and i like them but each to his own as i stated check them out i did not say he must buy if he were close to me i would let him shoot mine to see and feel them

Very true, you have to try each and pick what is best for your hands.
The caliber choice is good but if you have trouble shooting a grip because someone recommended it before you felt and shot it, you can be disappointed.
Even though I hate the Bisley it doesn't mean it is wrong for someone else.
Others hate the hogleg too. Some hate the S&W grips.
Don't take anyones advice because the grip is right for them. This is a personal thing.
Does everyone wear size 10 shoes? Nope, mine are 13's. Extra large gloves are a chore to get on.
I made the mistake of listening to how great the Bisley is, bought one and sold it FAST. It fits my friend great.
So don't listen to me or anyone else, make your own decision.

Hey wait a minute, everyone's entitled to my opinion.........just kidding, lighten up!

well bfr sounds like we are a little simalar 13 boots and have trouble with extra large gloves

so far me the bisley has been good alot better then standard blackhawk gripframe my problem with blackhawk frame is at bottom the curve backwards is very uncomfortable to me. My opinion.
Bfr i'll have a drink to you for sharing our info and experience with others


whit alot calmer conversation then last one

BFR, is correct with the oversize grips the Blackhawk grip frame recoils differently (more like the Bisley) I don't like the Blackhawk grip with the oversize grips as they position my hand too far from the trigger. This works if your have long fingers. My hands or large to extra large depending on the glove. The Bisley grips does position the middle finger closer to the trigger guard and I have hit the trigger guard with the middle finger before, but this can be corrected...

Ah yes, conversation without mud slinging......very nice......

quote:

Originally posted by Deertick:
Thanks for the replies to the .45LC thread ... very helpful.

Here's the deal. I want to get a handgun for hunting big game (deer-sized). I'm attracted to the Ruger Blackhawk, but we're not married. Ditto the .45LC, which would be nice as I'd like to evetually aquire other guns in the same caliber, and it'd be "handy" in that regard.

So ... for a new handgunner (not entirely new -- just to using them to hunt) what make/model/caliber suggestions do you have?

Also check out the BFR in 454 Casull, you can shoot the 45 Colts and if you ever decide to step up you already have the gun for it. One thing though, you will have to get rid of them ugly BFR grips....

No one suggested it as it looks like you have your heart set on a single action revolver, but have you considered a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull? They can be had for a song and a dance on the used-gun market. This is also an option if you decide that a double action revolver is on the horizon......... Just thought I would throw that out there.......

Tbear, the biggest reason I have trouble with ANY grip that puts me close or behind the trigger guard is my huge knuckle on my middle finger. It is very large from shooting heavy bows all my life. Plus being beat bloody from wrong fitting grips!

bfr i was shooting my 475 a little today i guess it's been awhile but after full loads i noticed it does touch my knuckles.The lighter loads don't bother me but i hate the backstrap of a BH.Maybe time to see if i can design one that gives a little more room and still have nice backstrap.As this will take me alittle while being in busy season with work and spring farm work i will let you know if i ever get anything done i got a good machinest friend so i think it could be possible

That's why I like the Pachmeyer grips. The fill behind the trigger and make more of a hump on the back. I don't care what the gun looks like even though pretty wood grips dress them up, my guns are for hunting. Deer can't see fancy things.
My friend bought a Freedom and I told him to get the rubber grips but he liked the fancy ones better. After 5 shots he ordered the rubber ones. Even after that he has not shot it in 2 years!

BFRshooter, what grips do you use on your BFR. I did not like the feel or look of the standard grips. I have the Black Micarta Grips on my BFR 500 Mag, the grips feels better and I they are smooth enough to allow the gun to roll in my hand. I find the rubber grips rub the palm of my hand to much.

I use the rubber grips that came with the gun. I don't allow my guns to roll. I don't get rubbed by grips. A loose grip on the heavy hitters will make you shoot high on deer. Everyone with a LOT of hunting experience shoots more relaxed at deer then at paper and that is where the trouble happens. You have to have the same grip in both cases. A FIRM grip without crunching the steel is best.
A gun rolling and climbing for the sky looks good in videos not on animals or paper.
Would you hold a .460 rifle 2" away from your shoulder?
I don't know where the "roll in the hand" stuff came from. Hold the gun so your arm rises with it.
I don't like a split forehead!

Hey Redhawk, take your smooth grips and put a wad of Crisco in your hand! Report back if you can.

BFRshooter, I have been shooting the BFR in 500 Mag for over 5 years, I have shot many deer and black bear with it, with the smooth grips. My shooting on paper and game is the same. I have a very consistent hold and have not shot over any game. And I do have a lot of experience hunting and shooting. I quailed expert on server occasions with handguns.

The bullet is already out of the barrel before the gun actually rolls in the hand, I am not new to handguns as you seem to think. My question to you was not trying to be smart, but more to find out what you use. Sorry I asked. I was not expecting a lecture from you on the proper shooting technique.

As for where the roll came from, being a person that is a hand gunner should know, single action guns do not come straight back at the shooter, they roll up in your hand. A double action comes straight back and then up at the shooter. That is a well know fact. You cannot control recoil, it happens no matter how you try to control it, that's what make people bad shots, trying to control the muzzle and recoil. But I am sure you already know that.

I have shot my BFR 500 Mag over 5000 times and never even came close to hitting my forehead. Proper shooting technique.

As for the Crisco in the hand, I will leave that up to you, there is nothing to prove by doing that.

Hey Redhawk.......After 5000 rounds is your .500 BFR showing any sign of wear or loosening up? My 7 1/2 incher only has 600 rds. through it and with 425's at 1200 to 1300 fps it'll for sure outlast me..............

Redhawk1, how often do you shoot your revolers specifficaly the 500?..

quote:

Originally posted by doghawg:
Hey Redhawk.......After 5000 rounds is your .500 BFR showing any sign of wear or loosening up? My 7 1/2 incher only has 600 rds. through it and with 425's at 1200 to 1300 fps it'll for sure outlast me..............

I have some shake in the cylinder, it is not as tight as when I first bought the gun. I have taken it to my gunsmith and he has check it out and told me it is in very good condition for the number of rounds that I have fired. It still locks up well and the forcing cone still look good. I thought for sure that I would be replacing the gun by now.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Redhawk1, how often do you shoot your revolers specifficaly the 500?..

JWP, I did 80% of the shooting with the BFR 500 Mag in the first 2 years I had the gun. I was shooting 200 to 300 rounds a week, some weeks only 100 rounds. I shot 100 rounds per session most of the time. I have taken the gun into the shooting range for demonstrations by the owner request with him supplying the factory rounds for others to shoot.
We demonstrated the muzzle flash in the dark indoor range and how the cylinder gape area was a danger zone. We wrapped news print around the gun and fired a round and the news print we instantly turned into confetti.

I have been ordering bullets from Ranger Rick and Montana Bullet Works for many many years. I also was given different bullets from Ranger Rick to try, and give him my feed back on there performance. My reloading bill for the 500 Mag has been out of this world, as Ranger Rick and Dave from Montana Bullet Works can attest to. I had 1000 cases I ordered from Jamison International when the 500 mag first came out and another 1000 from Starline. I have gone through several cases of H 110, W 296 and Lil'gun.

I have shot bullets from 275 gr. Barnes bullets to Ranger Ricks 700 gr. monsters. I have not been shooing as much this year with my handguns, but I have put at least 400 rounds through the BFR 500 Mag since January. With all the different handguns I have, my BFR 500 Mag has got most of my attention. As of late, my BFR in 45-70 has been the gun I have been shooting the most. It is the handgun I am taking to Maine on my Black Bear hunt coming up in August.

Is that a minimum 100 rounds every week?

No I did not shoot 100 every week. One week I may of shot 200 rounds, skip a week or so and shoot again maybe 50 or 100 rounds. At that pace it is not hard to shoot 5000 rounds. We are talking 104 weeks in just 2 years. Even skipping a few weeks and shooting nothing. I am talking over 5 plus years, over 260 weeks to shoot 5000 rounds. Not to mention my other 500 Mags that I have put rounds through.

If I shot 100 rounds every week, I would of shot well over 26,000 rounds. Now I like to shoot, but even that is extreme in my opinion, but I am sure there are some that have shot there guns that many times.

BFRShooter, that's an interesting comment on the grip. I'm a S&W Certified Handgun instructor and our manual preaches the point that I don't think you emphasized strongly enough: firmly gripping your pistol. Many people will try to compensate for recoil they know is going to take place by "limp wristing" the gun in the notion that the wrist will flip up to absorb the recoil. Well, it DOES, but at the price of your rounds going high center almost every time. The reverse of that is allowing the wrist to collapse as the trigger is pulled and the rounds end up at the bottom of the page.

Redhawk and I spoke extensively about pistol recoil. We were taught that the single action pistol produces the bigger challenge for novice shooters in PERCEIVED recoil. The single action pistols based on the "western design" have the actions higher than most modern double actions. The extra weight in the doubles also sets lower and brings the recoil more "down your arm" versus "over your hand". The tendency with the western grip is to "cup" the bottom of the grip in the butt of your palm to stop that natural rolling rotation. There's where the novice gets bit. It's also tougher for a novice to lock into a set grip with the western style revolver because of that parabolic arch to the pistol grip, whereas the "squarebacks" of the double actions confine the temptation to move your hands up and down the grip.

The only way to ever learn to shoot well is to shoot often. Muscle memory plays a big role in successful handgun shooting techniques.

Redhawk, I wasn't trying to be smart but the thought of a roll in the hand made me think of something.
When I was involved in target archery I used to rub my bow hand with cocoa butter. Talk about slippery! But the grip would seat exactly the same shot to shot and prevented torque. The thought of greasing your .500 made me laugh.
Back to the roll, mine don't and maybe it is because of the size of my hands. I hear guys that don't like the rubber grips complain about rubbed palms and blisters, I don't get that either.
The problem I had with relaxing for deer was that my arm would come up too fast, not the gun rolling. I have to straighten my elbows more and keep my wrist stiffer.
If you think the boolit is gone before the gun rises, shoot a target with your two hand hold, then shoot it again with one hand and post the picture. Why does a fast light boolit hit low and a slower heavy boolit hit high? Why does speeding up a boolit lower the point of impact?

George is certainly hitting on the cause of the "roll" of single actions over that of double actions, although "western design" is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

When the bullet is leaving the barrel, Newton's law kicks in and an equal but opposite reaction occurs. The rearward force creates a "moment" or turning force at the point of the grip frame that is being held the tightest. The grip is acting as a cantilever beam because it is fixed or held on one end only. The increased moment arm (height of barrel over the grip) gives a larger moment force. Same reason a cheater pipe works so well.

A shooter with strong forearms and wrists may quite easily overpower the lighter calibers and prevent the revolver from rotating backwards, but there is little or no benefit in trying to fight down the larger calibers. That just leads to stress fractures in the wrists.

An "understudy" or smaller caliber revolver in one's preferred action type is invaluable to practicing and maintaining a consistent grip. Once the muscle memory is developed, move on up to the larger, heavier rounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

The bullet is already out of the barrel before the gun actually rolls in the hand, I am not new to handguns as you seem to think.

The gun starts rearward as soon as the bullet starts forward, once the bullet leaves the barrel the majority of the rearward push is over. Thus the barrel is rising before the bullet leave the barrel...

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:

quote:

Originally posted by Redhawk1:

The bullet is already out of the barrel before the gun actually rolls in the hand, I am not new to handguns as you seem to think.

The gun starts rearward as soon as the bullet starts forward, once the bullet leaves the barrel the majority of the rearward push is over. Thus the barrel is rising before the bullet leave the barrel...

Of course it does, Newton's law applies here. But the barrel lift is not as fast as the reward motion. Even thought it all happens in a millisecond.

There are a number of variables involved with this process and even a slight change in any one them can create a noticeable difference between point of aim and point of impact. Another reason, if not the reason, that consistency is vital in the shooting sports.