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| One of Us |
I’m hunting in NY and am looking to harvest a deer and bear while sitting on stand in the swamps. I’m a little concerned with too light a load in my 44 magnum handgun for bear as they average 400 lbs and 600 pounders are possible in this area. The only loads that I have been able to group well so far in this gun are 210grain Sierra hollow points. And it’s too late to work another load up with new bullets this (season) Is this enough bullet? Would you use this load for black bear? Cause I’ve been on stand with my 35 Whelen feeling inadequate for bear with the 44. Thanks Vg | ||
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| One of Us |
What's the make of the .44Mag? I'd go with 300+ grain superhard cast garrett type loads to be loaded for bear. Wouldn't use a hollow point in any case. Too much chance of poor penetration. Loading would depend on how strong the gun is as much as anything else. What is the definition of "group well"? I'm assuming that you aren't going to take a handgun shot on a bear outside of 25 yards or so from your stand. Penetration is important. Need to crush bones and destroy vitals unless you want to spend part of the day tracking a wounded angry bear with bullets that aren't penetrating. I'd be a lot more concerned with making deep holes than slightly bigger ones (provided the Sierra stays intact on contact with bone). My fitty cents. | |||
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| one of us |
No, I would not use that bullet for bear. I don't understand what .44 you have that only groups with that light bullet. Normally a .44 doesn't even start to shoot good until you get to 240 gr's and most shoot better with even heavier. What kind of gun do you have? | |||
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Moderator |
I wouldn't ue 210s for personal defense against two-legged varmints, personally...... I don't like hollow-points to start with, but that bullets is too light for a .44 mag in my humble opinion. Even for deer I would go no lighter than 240 grains...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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BFR is right..that bullet is way too light. I use a 300gr Nosler HP and it penetrates very well. Its very accurate in both my Anaconda revolver and my Marlin 1894P rifle. 400-600lb black bear....no problem. A good 300gr hard cast would do very well too. If that 210 hp is all you got to shoot, leave it at home. No sense wounding game. | |||
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 If you don't have time to work up loads, buy something commercial that would be useful like Garretts. I'd be iffy on using the .35 too. | |||
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+1.. Or some from Buffalo Bore _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Thanks guys, It’s S&W 629 Light Hunter. It’s all I have in hunting handgun. 240’s don’t shoot well; I’ve tried H110, VV3n37, 2400 and Unique. Vg | |||
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TOM
Inadequate for bear with the 44. not the 35 Whelen. Vg | |||
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Shot a fox with the 35 Whelen two days ago. Hornady 250 RN   Vg | |||
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I shot a fox at close range on friend's ranch with a .177 pre-charged air rifle recently but I wouldn't recommend it as a general purpose fox hunting gun. I'd still want more than a .35 Whelen for bears. Your call. I was just giving my opinion and you asked for people's opinions. I don't like either of your choices. That's why I have a safe full of Magnum rifles and LARGE caliber and Magnum cartridge Contenders, revolvers, and Encores. For what it's worth. No offense intended. Not valid with any other offers. Not redeemable for any prizes or cash equivalents. Maybe I misread your statement starting with that also mentioned the .44 and thought you were uncomfortable with both. I would be. I've shot plenty of non-dangerous game with undersized cartridges, I don't do so with DG. I've never seen a 600lb fox. Happy Hunting. | |||
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Undergunned with a 35 Whelen??????I saw a Texas heart shot on a Moose in BC 10 years ago with a 180 Gr Barnes in 35 Whelen.Broke the rear leg ,went through the guts ,lungs and ended up under the skin under the neck.The bullet still weighed 172 grs.Impressed me enough to buy one.  | |||
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I agree nothing at all wrong with a 35 Whelen. It's more gun than a 338 Federal and look at the damage to this Zebra's heart that a 338 Federal did at about 100 yards with a 210 grain TSX A little light wieght Kimber  Exit in the hide on the off shouder  Massive damage to the heart  IMHO with a good bullet the 35 Whelen is more than enough for any Black Bear _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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If you don't want opinions don't ask for them. I killed a Zebra at over 300 with a .223 55 grainer. So what? It was a low-probability shot but it was much higher probability in a greatly exponential manner than the odds of the Zebra attacking me or even knowing where the bullet that scrambled it's brains came from. And no, I'm not going to debate the ethics of that shot with anyone again on AR. It got tired last year. If you want to come over and tell me it was unethical, bring a decent single malt and I'll show you the little .22 hole in the full rug and I'll drink your single malt while you tell me I didn't use enough gun. Hunt with what makes you happy. I'd just bring more gun. Zebras and Bears aren't very similar in temper. It's a semi-free world so do what you like within your state/country game laws. Some people bow-hunt bears and lions. | |||
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I agree and I have no problem with your shot with a 223. Put a bullet in the correct location and game over But I can't see a 35 Whelen as not being adequate for Black Bear. Elmer Kieth used the Whelen and thought it to be perfectly adequate for the big Brown Bears in Alaska. _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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That's the bit that's often lacking.  | |||
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| Moderator |
I don't think there's anything wrong with either the .44 or .35 Whelen. The Whelen loaded right is a killin' machine as is the .44 mag. You might try Double Tap ammo's (www.doubletapammo.com) 320 grain loads. A bit much for a steady diet in any M 29, but I have hunted with them and they are accurate and they penetrate like hell. Plus, they are priced very reasonably and they are accurate out of the 3 Smith 29s I have shot them in........ Tom, I did some penetration testing recently between my .475 Linebaugh and a .470 Nitro Express, and the results shocked all in attendence -- actually not all as a couple of us knew what a good flat-nosed, heavy, hardcast at moderate velocity can do and it is all out of proportion for the lackluster paper ballistics. Standby for complete test results....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Bigger holes are still better "Mr. "helped tom talk himself into a .500 after all and ordering dies" Whitworth.  | |||
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John Gallagher of the fine hunting revolvers uses .41 and .44 Mag super hard cast FNs at moderate velocities and he hunts bears with handguns on a very regular basis. You won't surprise me with them penetrating well. | |||
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Tom, you won't be undergunned in the least with that .500 loaded properly, and I think the .41s and .44s are fine killers as well assuming they are not loaded with light hollow-points. It's not that the .475 penetrated well, it penetrated better......... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Not undergunned with the .375H&H Encore barrels either...Not everything hand held has to be a revolver. | |||
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No everything doesn't have to be a revolver, a 475 Linebaugh in an Encore would simply be Outstanding and ahead of a 375 H&H out of a handgun length barrel for sure and certain _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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And can I get an AMEN!! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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one of us |
vinnyg, I say get some 300 gr. Hard cast bullets and get some range time in and go with that, or take the 35 Whelen. Both will work well. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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| one of us |
Tom, yea that 375 H&H barrel will do the trick also. Mine shoots great. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Some of my "handgun length barrels" are over 16" so that's arguable... .500S&W is more likely as the next Encore barrel, as I've ordered a gun and dies in that chambering...Remember, I'm still negotiating a leopard hunt soon so...can't spend all my money this month. Cheers, | |||
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Again I thank you gentleman: You have all confirmed to me that the 210 HP round is too light. My apologies to you Tom, I worded my first sentence incorrectly, what I meant was that I felt inadequate with the 44 Magnum in 210 HP’s so I have been toting around my 35 Whelen instead. Personally, I don’t feel under gunned with my Whelen at all. Never the less I have never hunted with a handgun yet and I purchased this 629 Light Hunter to do exactly that. But I have been working on (210/240) loads for three months with the mentioned success only. I recently planned on going with a heavy cast bullet between 270 and 300 but figured my time to find an accurate load, (being that hunting season is right now) can’t be done by me in my slow paced load working techniques. I have to travel far to get to the free shooting range and can’t afford to pop up at the one that costs $24 an hour at least not too often. I’d rather spend the money on bullets, Powder and primers. Anyway Redhawk1, I’m buying some hard cast heavier bullets right after season and will eventually learn how to cast my own. Whitworth, I’m ordering a box of those double tap 320’s right now, thanks. I wish I lived in WV with the few of you other guys because I already would have nailed this down with your help, bought the beers and smoked the venison for jerky. I see that some of you guys have many fine shooting revolvers; Think I’ll sell my home pay off the bank and then spend some dollars on like five more revolvers…that will make it six. Want to keep an even number.  So thanks again all. Vg | |||
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Down here in Texas we got shootin' ranges out back our houses. :-) No harm, no foul, no offense taken. Think .500S&W for your next purchase. The more of us the merrier and maybe component costs will come down...  | |||
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| One of Us |
Run the barrel as long as you wish, my moneys on the 475.... _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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You aren't helping increase the market and decrease the costs for my new .500 toy!!!!! No .475 until after leopard hunt. I've been advised on that. | |||
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| One of Us |
There are no fly's on the 1/2" bore either _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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| Moderator |
Vinny, in Texas you can get cited for not carrying a firearm! I am glad to hear that you've ordered some of those loads. They have served me well. When you sart reloading, I would suggest that Ranch Dog mold (the bullet comes out just under 280 grains) that will be safe for daily consumption. But, that's a discussion for later! When you get the ammo, keep us posted! They'll kick a bit, but they should work nicely. Good luck!! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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LOL! Yes, wait until after the hunt to bgin the negotiating process! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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vinnyg... Well if your ever in the tick infested Mid Hudson Valley..You can always shoot at my place... But I like Smirnoff Ice.... Dan | |||
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In what Country in Africa???? | |||
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| One of Us |
Of course a nice 475 revolver will stop a Grizz like, Pronto  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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RSA, Limpopo River NE of Messina. | |||
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I have .500S&W stuff and a leopard hunt coming up in Feb. if things work out. Everything in time. | |||
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I hope you kill a Monster Giant size Lepord... _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Me too! With a handgun, of course. .475 money will come to me soon enough. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Handgun Hunting Handgun / rifle Choice dilemma
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