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Have we answered the question "How Could One Need More" _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Are you kidding me BFR!? If you are insinuating that the group I shot somehow shows a fault with FA revolvers, then BFR must stand for Big Friggin' Retard. That group was shot from a makeshift rest by a mediocre shooter (me) and does nothing but uphold Freedom Arms reputation for making some of the best quality revolvers available. I'm more than open to accepting criticism, but I know well your dislike for Wyoming's finest (to the point of printing mis-truths) and this does nothing but further discredit your opinion. You stated that FA's combination of cylinder length and twist rate detract from accuracy with heavier bullets. An inch-and-a-half ten shot group tells me I need to practice more. Praise be to the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. | |||
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Juggernaut76, I thought that was a great group. I did not see one thing wrong with it. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Juggernaut, I didn't say there was anything wrong with the group, where did you read that I did??? I stated you shot the right boolit, nothing more, nothing less. Show me a group like that with a 460 gr boolit before you get your panties in a bunch. Last I heard, Freedom doesn't yet have a dial on the barrel to alter twist rate for the boolits. The BFR will NOT shoot that boolit like that or anything lighter and I accept that fact and neither will it shoot anything much over 430 gr's as good and I accept that fact too. I am not going to jump down your throat by claiming my gun is superior. Every single gun ever made has a short range of boolit weights it shoots best with but you Freedom guys think the gun is magic and slide out of the closet as soon as the name is mentioned. It is the only revolver in history that a rational discussion about what it shoots best can not be held. They clearly ship an ego upgrade with every one. The ONLY way you will convince me of anything about how superior the thing is, is to shoot a pile of 10 shot groups with ALL boolits from 350 to 460 gr's. If every single boolit shoots that tight, send me the targets and I will eat them. I can't do it with any gun I own or have ever owned, magic dust blew away on the yellow brick road. Tell the little woman to take your family jewels out of her purse, they are clearly getting pinched!  | |||
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I made a mistake and went with the .475. Since you are shooting the .454, change the list from 185 gr's to 405 gr's. I want to see 10 shot groups with every one of them. | |||
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Personally, if it can shoot a 10-round group like that at 50-yards, it's a great shooter! I think all guns have some limitation. For example, my SRH in .454 likes 360 grain bullets, but won't shoot 400s as accurately. But, this doesn't bother me a bit as it will get the job done with 360s....... Juggernaut, you have a shooter, and it is obvious to me that the guy on the trigger isn't half bad either! Indeed, lots of FA owners seem a bit defensive, but I don't see that here at all......JMHO "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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It is posts like this that gets shit started.  I think he had a great group and in my opinion, he does not have a dam thing to prove to you or anyone else.  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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He has to prove that I said anything bad about his gun or his group. When I said that all guns will not shoot the whole range of boolit weights with that kind of accuracy and he is shooting the right one, then to take it out of context and jump down my throat, I think he has overstepped the line. To take the effort to explain again what I said and then to have him keep throwing the same group with the same boolit back at me without thinking about what I said, I think I deserve the apology! Then for all of you to agree with him when you all know I said NOTHING about his choice of boolit, his gun or his shooting ability, you are as bad. It seems to me that the dicussion was about weight and length limits for different twists and also about what boolits will or will not fit a gun. It was right for him to post the picture and it is a great group and he shoots very good. It shows he is using what works. My point was only that if he were to vastly change the boolit he would not get groups that tight. I do, however understand what some of you do! You skip over my words to pick out only what you want to see so you can display the big shoulder chip again. Others read and understand what I meant. And it seems there are only two Marx brothers that start the shit. | |||
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BFRshooter, you are always talking about how Freedom Arms guns shoot like shit, then you post that his group confirmed what you have been saying all along. I think his perception was you were dogging his group that he posted. That was my perception. And your comments to him was out of line. quote: Originally posted by bfrshooter: Juggernaut, you have proven what I have been saying all along. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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BFRSHOOTER: I realise that you are very passionate on this subject but if I may add something. You really shot yourself in both feet awhile back concerning the transfer bar thing. Everyone except maybe one or two now thinks you are lacking credibility pure and simple. You will never change anyone on here that has a negative attitude concerning you. YOU ARE fighting a losing battle. You will never win. There is nothing wrong coming to grips with that fact. The time and effort spent on here rachet jawing with people that you will never change could be put to better use taking a nap, loading ammo, taking a dump, shooting etc. and would be more rewarding than continuing a discussion, arguement, bickering session etc.. Even if you are right you will never gain any worthwhile ground continuing to dig this hole. I find it incredable that a man with your supposed knowledge has failed to realise this. You do realise it don't you? When you find yourself in a hole the first thing to do is STOP DIGGING. That doesn't necessarily mean you are in the wrong because you are in the hole because you may not be but to continue to dig it deeper causes people to question your intellegence even more. That is something you sure don't need more of. This is meant in a friendly way and I hope you take it that way. | |||
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Yes, I understand and appreciate what you say. I have come to grips with the fact that I named a part wrong on a gun I never had apart before. The fact was and still is that the thing was broken and I had to repair it. It would not keep the hammer off of the firing pin. But you can see what happens over a simple mistake with some that have too much to prove about themselves. I admitted my mistake of not knowing the correct terminology. I will forever suffer for it and have it thrown back at me because some guys here are too perfect and never make a mistake. Anyway, I don't care. I just love to goad them too. Tit for tat you might say! | |||
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Hell, I forgive you BFRshooter... Even perfect people like you and I make mistakes once in awhile...lol.. But not very often.  If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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BFR, you'll never hear that from me. I only know of one self proclaimed expert on here and I have him on ignore. You can be mortal just like the rest of us now. RETIRED Taxidermist | |||
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If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is. If I can recall a while back, more than a few wanted to run you off of this site. Seems like you're waiting for your opportunity to stick it to bfrshooter. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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You looking in the mirror when you typed that george? _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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"Juggernaut, you have proven what I have been saying all along." BFR: I thought what you had been saying all along was that a FA in 475 won't shoot a heavy for caliber boolit with good accuracy. Juggernaut's group was with a 368 gr in a 454, which I figure qualifies as heavy for caliber. It isn't a 475, but it is a FA and it is heavy for caliber. I just don't see how that proved your point. dvnv | |||
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WHITWORTH: I am not waiting to stick it to BFRSHOOTER. I don't care one bit what you think P-E-R-I-O-D. I made a statement and I think BFR knows what I say is true. So, there now Great One. | |||
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If you have nothing to contribute, then don't post commentary to stir the pot. You never seem to have anything to contribute. You can always go play on the freeway...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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WHITWORTH: evidentally I contributed just as much as anyone else in this mess. Ask yourself what has been acommplished in all this. What have you contributed that has actually been worthwhile. Everthing posted by you guys had been nothing but arguments. Go back and look over the post. Besides I wasn't even talking to you. So why are you answering. Take a lesson from your pal BFR and be nice when he answered me on my post. | |||
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Arguments normally born out of actual experience....... Yes, things do get heated around here every now and again, but I found your comments to be a unjust. I know bfrshooter personally, and you would be hard pressed to find someone here with more handgun hunting experience. Since you have taken the high road, I will do the same....... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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DVNV, we can't compare different calibers and gun setups that easy. Each will do something different and shoot something else. That is why I always say you need to try everything. My whole point is that each gun and each caliber will only shoot super tight groups within a small range but will shoot OK with everything else. Some guns are so picky that they won't shoot for beans unless you find the right make of bullet or the right design boolit it needs. Others shoot real good with anything however I only refer to very, very small groups with what the gun likes best. Why, even a primer change can make groups go from 1/2" to 3". Anyway, the reason I say that about the Freedom .475 is that is the one we worked with the most. From 350 to 400 gr's we had as small as 1/2" on occasion at 50 yd's and with the heavy weights we would get 2", sometimes a lot more. We could not change that but maybe it is just this gun too. It has a real dislike for 440 and 460 gr boolits. It hated the 325 gr too. The reason why we did so much with the .475 is that I had every weight boolit you could think of. We even chucked some of the long ones in the lathe to cut crimp grooves. Anyway, thanks to some of you for forgiving some of my mistakes, I make more every day then I will admit. It is only the guys that won't forgive me after I say I was wrong that keeps me saying goofy things on purpose! | |||
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bfrshooter: Fair enough. BTW, I don't have a dog in the 475 heavywieght fight, not having crossed over to the dark side of hard cast. I enjoy your posts and have learned a couple of things by reading them...If I lived nearby I'd come over, wanting to try your gun and load. dvnv | |||
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Dark side?!  dvnv -- once you go hardcast, you never go back! They do an inordinate amount of internal damage, and they will penetrate a lot deeper than any expanding bullet!! Try it, you'll like it! "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Whitworth: I have heard the hard cast drum beat for many years, but don't figure I'll change unless I start shooting really big animals or really long range. I've been using JHPs at higher velocity for quite a while and am not feeling the need for change. So far, any surprises have been to the positive. I will admit not liking to go through shoulder first...but have...it seems to take longer for them to die, probably about the time a hard cast takes anyway. dvnv | |||
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What do you hunt mainly? I used to use hollow-points on hogs, but have had them and seen the fail. Granted, a hog -- even a smallish one -- is a lot more dense than a deer. That is why I switched. Obviously they are not needed on lighter game, but I like a load that will do it all and when I find it, I stick with it. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Whitworth: I haven't had any problem killing pigs but they rarely go over 200 lbs where I hunt. I figure I am ok up to elk...dvnv | |||
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I always felt that I had to carefully pick my shots with hollow-points. With heavy for caliber flat-nosed hardcasts you can almost guarantee pass-throughs. Do you hunt hogs on the central coast? "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I use hard cast in all my handgun and some of my rifles. I love the dark side.... If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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