I am looking for ideas for a scale stand. Something to hold my beam scale and powder trickle in place. Whenever I bump the scale I feel that I need to zero it again, even thought it rarely needs it when I do. It would also be helpful for reading the scale.

Picks would be great.

Plywood, 1010 scale and trickler.

Thumbscrews hold it to the bench with brass threaded inserts .
The RCBS measure bracket is also attached.

That looks great. I really like the trickle holder. Thanks!

I had some G-10 glass leftover from a project so I cut a square that would support my electronic scale and installed 4 leveling screws at the corners. I use a little level to get it leveled and set the scale on it. With it in place I know that I am starting with a plumb surface.
C.G.B.

I reloaded for years before I got smart enough to build a stand to get the scale up to eye level.

Dave

Some guys are still using beam scales??

I use nothing else but Lee's yellow Popeye's pipes and an RCBS 604 scale and two Lyman 55 powder measures. Can't be bothered with electronic stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Some guys are still using beam scales??

Yeah, 'cause they always work. And, I anneal my brass with a $10 propane torch.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Some guys are still using beam scales??

Oh yeah! I use an Ohaus-built Lyman M5 tuned by Scott Peterson and it is dead nuts on. It is reproducible and linear. The damping is terrific and it responds to the addition or subtraction of one kernel of extruded powder.

I have to agree with craigster, neither one of my electronic scales is near as accurate as the beam. Beams are simply more accurate. Digital scales are more convenient, but I don’t trust the el cheapo or the $120 model when it comes to a near max or max load. I like my hands too much for that.

I used to think both my powder measures were junk until I noticed that when I would remove the pan the tare
weight would sometimes change. Both mine do it, and don’t tell me the correct way to use them. I have read both the phamplets. Re calibrate all the time, change batteries on the cheap one, the expensive model has a level and adjustable feet. I trust my beam and it was not $120. The digis are for loading shotshells.

That’s why I am making a stand for it. I was thinking of drilling a recess for the trickle to fit it but I like the locking collar in the pics above.

I've had a Lyman D-7 for about 37 years and it works fine with no support - but a bump could move the fine R/H weight at any time, so I check it as often as I think to.

I have seen pieces of wood secured crossways under each end of an earlier model, possibly the Ohaus D5, though it looks much the same as mine.

I have my scale on its own little table so that the movement of the press or other workbench vibrations don't disturb it.

I still use my RCBS 10-10 (with a Dandy Omega powder trickler) on occasion but got tired of having to lower my head to get to eye level to see the level lines. I have a small reloading desk and didn't want to add any more items to further clutter it. I experimented using different contraptions to elevate the scale but then had a problem keeping it level. Finally, I tried placing my old fly tying magnifying glass (with stand) about 3 inches or so from the scale, tilted where it looks down at the level lines. It solved the problem and works perfectly. More importantly, it magnifies the lines making them so much easier to see with my tired old eyes.

A while back I got two L.E.Wilson stands for their case trimmers. I only needed one, so can now use the other for the Ohaus 505 scale. It works well. They are steel (coated) U shaped so holes may be drilled for a more permanent attachment of the scale.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Some guys are still using beam scales??

Yes, but only those who actually know what they're doing.

Righton Stone creek!!

I've always used the Ohaus I bought for $20 back about 1959.
Price the same one now and see if you can get one for less than $120!
They're accurate and stay that way.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Some guys are still using beam scales??

Yes, but only those who actually know what they're doing.

I have RCBS 304 Ohaus scale, and my electronic scale shows exactly the same as the beam scale. When I use it, I let it warm up, even though it doesn't appear to need it. After I calibrate it, I test it with a bullet that weighs 240.0 grains and one that is 100. If they don't both weigh exactly that, I recalibrate it. (As a side note, a while ago the 240 grain bullet was consistently showing 240.1; I noticed it was badly oxidized and perhaps had a bit of gunk on it. I took steel wool to it to remove the oxidation and presto: 240.0 grains again.)

Electronic scales are used in industries when the need to measure less than .1 grains is required.

I would also say inexpensive beam scales are pretty inconsistent; not sure if they are over-damped or get dust on the knife edges, but they are not perfect.

Finally, here is a comment from another forum, same subject, from a guy who is a scale technician:

"I agree with the digital guys. I am a scale technician by trade. I see electronic (digital and analog) and beam scales everyday. I repair, sell, calibrate and certify these scales.
When electronic scales first came into vogue, I would say yeah, the beams were whipping their butts, but today the industry is going toward digital. The electronic signal has been interfaced with computers and has become digitized and there is no way a balance beam can, or will, read out to the millionth of a gram. That's .000001g! "Krikey", we have scales with Quartz loadcells! This is all "readability" or divisioin size though. The farther you break down that signal and require more intricacy of it is where the digital NTEP approved scales start to shine. Most NTEP scales/loadcells (legal for trade) are rated for 10,000 counts internally. The counts are determined by capacity / division = counts (10,000lbs / 1lb = 10,000cts, 5,000lb / 1lb = 5,000cts, 100lb / .01lb = 10,000cts). This has nothing to do with balance beams and is a determining factor when certifying/calibrating scales with electronic loadcells. If most electronic scales, whether NTEP approved or not, are pushed past 10,000cts the displayed weight tends to "drift". This has been somewhat overcome with digital loadcell technology. The digital equipment can now read out past 10,000cts consistently and accurately.
The source of any scale's accuracy is in the standards you use (i.e. certified calibration weights). If you use a 10lb certified weight versus a 10lb barbell weight, your scale is going to be more accurate. It is held to tighter tolerances than the barbell weight and your digital scale "see" the difference electrically.
Beam vs Digital, hum.....3 four-drawer Filing cabinet(s) vs 1 Laptop. Come on."

I will stick with digital and live with single digit SDs.

Gee golly, guys. For the record I have both a digital scale and a beam scale. (fwiw, they both match up exactly0
but what really drives this post is: it wasn't too long ago that bench shooters were setting records using loads that were put together with DIPPERS.
While it may make you feel all warm and fuzzy to brag on your .0001 digital/beam but does it really help your shooting or does it give you something to quibble about when its raining?

quote:

does it give you something to quibble about when its raining?

What he said.

I cut little fitted grooves in the wood for the little green feet, then add a tiny tad of of glass bedding...it never moves unless you use a sledge hammer..but you give up portability to some degree...and that's fine with me.

Yes I still use a beam scale, and old powder measures, a Hollywood monster single stage press that give youngsters hemroids to move..My reloading room is an antique collectors dream..but I can toss a charge as accurate as any modern reloading scale time and time again. Had to probe that a few times..

Wasbeeman

I have a lot of Lee products including the dippers and book that is 2 years old now. I read in the book about how the density of powder can vary as much as 16%. If this is the case then loading using volume (dippers) would actually be more accurate.

When I load handgun ammo I use this knowledge and stick to my powder throws. Both my Lee Perfect and my Lyman 55 do a great job. Rules I follow when using them: only use powders that flow well, ball type and DON'T use for any load at or NEAR max and check the throw on a scale 1 of every 20. This has also produced excellent .223 rem 'plinking' loads for Americas rifle, my stuff shoots the same as the FC factory loads that the empties came from.

When I want to fill some large rifle cases or near max handgun loads I measure each charge, using the dippers and a trickle to get me where I want to be. My 7x57 mauser will out shoot me any day, I have three loads for this gun that print little clovers at 100. It does that with factory stuff too.

Checking and setting up my throws is what lead to this query. This is when I noticed the inconsistencies with my electronic scales, the tare changes. So I have moved to using my beam and now want to make a stand to hold it in place along with the trickle. While the discussion may have lead to electronic scales being more accurate scales, a high end model is not in the cards, I have too many small children for that.

Food for thought: your mention of dippers producing match quality ammo is something that I have been aware of. I have to believe that the volume fill method is what all of the ammo manufacturers use. How could they scale each powder charge????

There have been other threads on thrown vs weighed charges. With ball powders I use the scale to set up the powder measure to throw charges by volume. Ball powders seem to throw consistently.

I also use the scale for stick powders, because they are not consistent through the measure. This variability shows up on the chronograph. Whether or not it shows up on the target mostly depends on how far away it is. Using dippers for 100 yard paper punching seems fine to me. I wouldn't do that for 1600 yards though.

On electric vs balance beam, the electric is faster for me. The balance is more portable, like if you wanted to hand load at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by jungajay39:
I read in the book about how the density of powder can vary as much as 16%. If this is the case then loading using volume (dippers) would actually be more accurate.

I disagree. Water and lead have different densities. So would a gallon of water weigh the same as a gallon of lead?

Varying density is exactly when you would want to measure by weight, not by volume.

jpl

Sorry sir, but you are not looking at the 16% variance the way you should.

The info is from Modern Reloading Second Edition, by Richard Lee.

The 16% variance is regarding the density found within the granules of a single powder type/brand.

This is not a comparison of W231's density VS IMR700x's density. This would be a lead vs water comparison. Its a comparison of the powder contained within one jar of that brand/type. Its about the processes used to create the powder, the way the ingredients are combined.

Sorry but I will have to go with Richard Lee, he owns a successful business making and selling the tools needed for reloading and has a book published on the subject. You don't.

I just spoke with a bunch of competitive shooters at our Friday morning 500 yard practice, both three position and F class, and asked them what they used, electronic or beam. One guy looked at me like I was nuts. "My electronic scale can measure to a 100th of a grain."

These are guys that shoot at Camp Perry, the world championships, etc.

Every single one used an electronic scale.

So much for the "experts" here...

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I just spoke with a bunch of competitive shooters at our Friday morning 500 yard practice, both three position and F class, and asked them what they used, electronic or beam. One guy looked at me like I was nuts. "My electronic scale can measure to a 100th of a grain."

These are guys that shoot at Camp Perry, the world championships, etc.

Every single one used an electronic scale.

So much for the "experts" here...

So what ? Unless you and/or your buddies can prove that 100th of a grain of powder makes a difference @ 500 yds/three position/F class, your (expert?) opinion means diddly squat. Keep in mind that one tenth of a grain 4350 equals five or six granules.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I just spoke with a bunch of competitive shooters at our Friday morning 500 yard practice, both three position and F class, and asked them what they used, electronic or beam. One guy looked at me like I was nuts. "My electronic scale can measure to a 100th of a grain."

These are guys that shoot at Camp Perry, the world championships, etc.

Every single one used an electronic scale.

So much for the "experts" here...

So what ? Unless you and/or your buddies can prove that 100th of a grain of powder makes a difference @ 500 yds/three position/F class, your (expert?) opinion means diddly squat. Keep in mind that one tenth of a grain 4350 equals five or six granules.

I am referring to the comments that "only people who know what they are doing" use beam scales. Really?

1/100th of a grain? What would something like that cost? My My Lyman is only guarenteed to +/- 1/10th of a grain.
Does he transport it to the range? I noticed that dippers were becoming passe' when they came out with the small, portable, battery operated scales favored by the drug dealers. But I don't think they're accurate to 1/100th of a grain.
Back to my original question. Does your shooter shoot well enough to justify a 1/100th of a grain scale? Let's not forget, because someone sez "I shoot long range....." doesn't make him an expert, it may only mean he has the entry money and, perhaps, a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
1/100th of a grain? What would something like that cost? My My Lyman is only guarenteed to +/- 1/10th of a grain.
Does he transport it to the range? I noticed that dippers were becoming passe' when they came out with the small, portable, battery operated scales favored by the drug dealers. But I don't think they're accurate to 1/100th of a grain.
Back to my original question. Does your shooter shoot well enough to justify a 1/100th of a grain scale? Let's not forget, because someone sez "I shoot long range....." doesn't make him an expert, it may only mean he has the entry money and, perhaps, a rifle.

Anybody serious about F Class should have at least one.

http://www.scalesgalore.com/pr....cfm?product_id=5973

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
1/100th of a grain? What would something like that cost? My My Lyman is only guarenteed to +/- 1/10th of a grain.
Does he transport it to the range? I noticed that dippers were becoming passe' when they came out with the small, portable, battery operated scales favored by the drug dealers. But I don't think they're accurate to 1/100th of a grain.
Back to my original question. Does your shooter shoot well enough to justify a 1/100th of a grain scale? Let's not forget, because someone sez "I shoot long range....." doesn't make him an expert, it may only mean he has the entry money and, perhaps, a rifle.

Anybody serious about F Class should have at least one.

http://www.scalesgalore.com/pr....cfm?product_id=5973

Obviously no one measures to .01 grains. The point is, many of you claimed (inaccurately) that beam scales are more accurate than electronic scales - that "those who know what they are doing" use beam scales, not electronic. I am only pointing out serious shooters prefer them, at least in the circles I run in.

As for the scale link you provide craigster, a friend of mine owns one of those and absolutely loves it.

Meanwhile, back to the OP. Richj, that stand is a great idea to get the scale up
to eyeball level as well as for the trickler!

As for BB vs. electronic, I use both. A Lyman 500 gets used for small quantities of
loads as well as checking weights for the RCBS Chargemaster. The two have never had
an argument. And that's fine for my needs.