quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:
Great discussion.

Question, If there were a chamber strong enough to contain all the released gasses of x amount of y powder, with none escaping, what would that pressure/volume be?

quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:
Great discussion.

Question, If there were a chamber strong enough to contain all the released gasses of x amount of y powder, with none escaping, what would that pressure/volume be?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
To a physicist "Temperature" and "pressure" are essentially the same thing, an expression of energy.

not really, no.. as that would include every other expression of energy, and while inter dependent, they arent, except in the extreme, dependent variables...

in a CLOSED system, adding more energy (then its not really closed) can change temp and pressure.. as volume would be inelastic .. unless we are talking about cooking off 2g of h335 in a 55gallon drum at 0 psi absolute..

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Ideal gas law does not apply to the internal ballistics event. Rate of reaction and magnitude of pressure to Great.

Need to apply thermodynamic principles. It introduces the theory or concept of covolume to the gas equation.

The temperature scale is not celsius or fahrenheit but Kelvin scale.

This is important because the Kelvin scale infers a measure of the internal energy or specific heat of the combustible substances and their products.

So Alan de Groots assertion not entirely wrong.

Ideal gas law has to be substituted with the gas law of Noble and Abel ( 1860) These are the two dudes who gave us the time pressure curve, the Copper crusher and the basis of the thermodynamic foundation of internal combustion.

It is all about energy ! the whole event from start to Finnish is about energy. And then off course there are some here who still claim it's the bullet that does the killing

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Im done with arguing on the net:

Go check it for yourself.

The gas equation for a ideal gas shows a huge error in computing pressure when compared to the Noble- Abel equation !

This is fundamental to the numeric modelling of the internal combustion process in guns.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
Jeffeosso
You need to look at the ideal gas law

PV=nRT

What do you see?

n= the number of moles of gas - not changing for this discussion
R= the ideal gas constant - constant right
V= Volume - not changing for this discussion

That only leaves P = pressure
and T= Temperature and they are on opposite sides of the expression.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
When
Temperature = Zero degrees Kelvin mathematically pressure HAS to be zero when the other factors are constant.

quote:

Originally posted by SST:
Interesting thread. How fitting that the following adage was shared with me today:

"If you can't explain it well enough for your grandmother to understand, you probably don't understand it yourself."

Hence, I will not try.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
OTOH: "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit."

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
I thought the context of this discussion has to do with Leopardtrack,s opening question relating to the combustion of a propellant in a chamber ????

If we were discussing a simple gas gun such as a air gun then yes I fully agree but we are not.

We are discussing closed bomb experiments and guns and powder ??? Noble and Abel used a 150 cc capacity closed bomb with a 20 tonne per inch pressure capability