Just want to see what most people thoughts on lee dies are. ALL COMMENT ON DIES AND THERE FUNCTION WIL BE GREATLY APPERICATE.

they work.. aren't match grade .. but work just fine

i use them. there are some things about them that irk me but i have been able to make satisfactory ammo for hunting and plinking. thats all i do so they serve me well.

the thing that irks me is the locking rings have no way to secure them in place. also on the expander dies for straight wall cartridges the expander itself isn't adjustable. you can only adjust it down so far. this normally isn't a problem but it became a problem when i tried to expand some hornady .444 brass. it is shorter than other .444 brass so i couldn't expand it with the die because the only adjustment is adjusting the entire die down but you run out of room when you hit the shell holder.

MD, based on some of your other posts, it looks like you are trying to find ways to maximize your accuracy. I'm not sure Lee dies would be the way to do that.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
MD, based on some of your other posts, it looks like you are trying to find ways to maximize your accuracy. I'm not sure Lee dies would be the way to do that.

+1

Barstooler

The Lee FL die sets:
The internal dimensions of the sizer dies are excellent and match other brands of higher price dies. However there is almost no other feature of the Lee dies or the use of them that I like.

The Lee rifle collet type factory crimp die:
This is an excellent die for crimping cannulured bullets for use in auto loaders and lever action tube magazine rifles.

Thats all I buy any more. I have dies set from most of the manufacturers.

I see no differants in their use for my reloading. Except that I don't have to worry about breaking decapping pins with the lee dies.

Out of Hornady, Pacific, RCBS, Lee and Forster dies I have used, Forster give
the most consistent accuracy, followed by Lee, then RCBS, Pacific and Hornady.
Far as I'm concerned, Hornady should not have "improved" on the Pacific dies.

The only real problem I have with Lee dies is that the bullets could have a
little tighter neck tension on them. Yes, you can send in the stem for them
to take off .001", but it would be nice to have that option PRIOR to buying.

P.S. Oops, left out Redding! But no fair comparison. They are customized for
Todd Kindler's Tac 20. Great for forming the .223 brass but almost worthless
for reloading, as they size the brass down too much for the chamber.

I've always used Redding, or RCBS until about a year ago. I bought a set of collet dies because they advertised they'd work on the Ackley Improved cases, and they did that just fine. Just last week I ordered three of their factory crimp dies and have played around with them and like them as well, if they'd only put a real lock ring on their dies.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Thats all I buy any more. I have dies set from most of the manufacturers.

I see no differants in their use for my reloading. Except that I don't have to worry about breaking decapping pins with the lee dies.

second on this! Load 68 different calibers-- have about any brand you can imagine, but have gone to lee exclusively. Because, they are 'good enough' for my shooting and the give me a free shellholder everyone else charges an extra $5.00 for and is an extra thing for me to look up and order.

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Thats all I buy any more. I have dies set from most of the manufacturers.

I see no differants in their use for my reloading. Except that I don't have to worry about breaking decapping pins with the lee dies.

second on this! Load 68 different calibers-- have about any brand you can imagine, but have gone to lee exclusively. Because, they are 'good enough' for my shooting and the give me a free shellholder everyone else charges an extra $5.00 for and is an extra thing for me to look up and order.

Buckeye,
If you load 68 caliber why do you still need shell holders? I load about that many with only about 20 shell holders.

From my recent experience:

For about the last two months I acquired a !job lot" of reloading gear from an old guy that was finishing shooting. Among it all were LEE CARBIDE 44 MAGNUM DIES.

Now I already have RCBS CARBIDE 44 MAGNUM DIES so decided to do a side by side comparison.

Decapping: Not a great deal of difference, except if I want to maybe size primed cases from which I have pulled the bullets. And don't want to de-cap them.

Then the RCBS were easier to back the de-capping rod out of.

None of the fired cases had crimped in primers so I could not evaluate if the LEE was better in that respect.

Sizing: LEE says that its carbide ring is taper ground so that you do not get an unattractive shoulder at the head of the case.

Some of this old guy's cases I had to lubricate to go through both the RCBS and LEE dies! Heaven knows what load he had been using.

But that did mean that the fired ones were well expanded.

Even so I could see no viewable difference, after re-sizing, at the case head are between how the RCBS DIES left them as to how the LEE DIES left them.

Neck Expanding:
I can see that in a three turret press that the LEE with its powder through (if you use a Lee Powder Despenser) offers a genuine advantage over the RCBS. Without question.

I use a single station press and throw my charges using a Lyman 55 Powder Measure. So to my method of reloading the LEE offered no advantage.

If I used a three hole turret press the LEE (with a Lee Powder Measure on their Expander Die) would be quicker.

I could, for what it is worth, get a wider flare on the RCBS. The RCBS also was less forgiving of over length cases and would give them a wider flare.

Bullet Seating:
The LEE is easier to adjust as it can be done with fingers and doesn't require a screwdriver.

Indeed it that respect the older LEE with the black plastic hexagonal top were superior to the modern LEE with the round plastic top.

But! Because the RCBS do require a screwdriver that slot for the screwdriver acts as an index mark. So it was easier to judge whenyou had put the seater plug down "a quarter turn" than it was on the LEE.

Useful if you have different bullets and want to note that XXX bullet is seated "a half turn" deeper than YYY bullet.

Also the RCBS I have come with both a SWC and a RN seater plug.

Crimping: The LEE seemed superior to the RCBS in that it was more forgiving of slightly over length cases.

Shell Holder: The RCBS was superior to the LEE and supported more of the base of the case IMHO.

Lock Nuts: The LEE? I hate them! OK if you set them up and leave them in the press, as some do, or set them up on a removable turret.

But not for me with my single station press! With the RCBS dies I set up then lock the collar lock not.

So when I remove and put them back they are at the same set up length as the last time.

Far superior...and quicker if you are constantly changing dies.

However this could be overcome with the LEE by buying locking rings and putting them on the dies.

But that is extra cost!

The Bottom Line: I shot twenty-five yard groups with identical load ammunition that had been loaded on both sets.

In my Winchester 94 with 20" barrel in 44 Magnum I could find no difference in accuracy between the RCBS or LEE.

Other Points:
The commercial shooting centre where I shoot had a set of LEE CARBIDE DIES in 38/357 that scored the sides of the case! They were well used. But I have never had that happen with RCBS carbide dies.

My Verdict:
In handgun calibres in straight wall cases there is no accuracy difference.

As I have a single station press I found the RCBS with their locking lock rings more useable.

If I had a tree hole turret and left the dies in that turret once set-up the LEE (if used with the LEE Through Die Powder Measure) would offer a slight speed increase.

So if buying dies, for how I reload, I'd stick in pistol calibres with RCBS and to "save money" buy off eBay!

One LEE DIE I liked: Without a doubt their FACTORY CRIMP RIFLE DIE is superb! I have them in 270 Winchester and 280 Remington. They are without doubt a worthy addition to any rifle reloaders bench!

But again I have swapped the lock rings for locking lock rings!

Hope it helps you decide.

When you try to evaluate dies by looking at downrange performance on target, you introduce WAY too many variables for a true test. I think that you could do some comparison that way as concerns loading for handguns -- if you were a super shooter as seen on TV. Otherwise, I don't see any difference between Lee and any other die except for some side issues to be discussed later. I have a Lee Gas check die which is a seater/lubricator which I use fairly often it works well and was a lot less expensive than the other brands I saw at the time. I have a Lee universal decapper die which worked well until the decapping pin broke--but--that can and does happen to other brands of dies. The only gripe I have about that particular die is that it does not have a pin to decap cases with small flash holes Like Lapua and Norma 6BR or 6PPC. That's not much of an issue sine I rarely need to use the die at all anyway.

I do not like or trust any of Lee's powder handling products, including the powder through expander--when coupled with their powder measures. I have had bad experiences with bridging in all the Lee powder measures I have tried. Other people have had better results, they say. I don't like their marketing strategy as concerns the factory crimp dies--the Lee FCD for rifle cartridges is a great product and a real departure from earlier designs, I don't think you can say enough good things about it when used in those situations where a crimp is preferred. The handgun FCDs are just roll and taper crimps with the FCD tag pasted on. No better than any other die of that kind. I think Redding makes a superior roll crimper with the Profile crimp die. Is it worth the extra $$$$? It is to me for my carry gun/bowling pin cartridges. (two different revolvers of the same caliber)


As far as riflery goes--the first question is--will any difference show up if the tester is using an off the shelf rifle? They are made with such loose tolerances as to render any real testing of something so far back in the shooting chain as dies--moot. This is not because they are cheap, but because the manufacturer must make a rifle that will chamber all the different Factory loads plus a lot of handloaders idea of proper ammo as well. How good is the shooter? What kind of rest? Weather conditions? How often was the barrel cleaned?--and on and on.

I use Lee dies for most of my handgun loading because they are inexpensive and I would never have been able to afford to load the variety of cartridges I shoot unless I did. I use Lee dies to load a couple hunting cartridges--30-30 and .30-06 and a .223 rem I use in an AR for plinking.

All my match guns are loaded using either Forster or Redding dies. This is mainly due to the fact that I am able to see small changes in downrange accuracy when shooting these guns. Tighter tolerances and better designs come into their own here. Also, Forster and Redding make as regular stock certain kinds of specialty dies that I use that Lee does not. Body bump and bushing dies leap to mind. The Lee collet die is very good for its purpose, but when .001" of neck tension makes a difference you want a bushing. In my experience, you really need to keep your Lee dies squeaky clean or inside and out every time, no failure allowed. Any deviation and rust (which never sleeps) will soon infest them. The Redding and Forster dies are somewhat more forgiving.

As far as RCBS vs. Lee goes----as far as I am concerned in the common FL and neck sizing and bullet seating dies--it's like the difference between Ford and Chevy--back in the days before the former axis powers began making the cars we buy......

BTW, the Lee dies I use are mounted on 4 hole turrets for the classic press (IMHO the best turret press, even today) and the #$@^% rubber O ring does keep them snug IF you made sure the die, the ring, and the turret were CLEAN before you started to seat the die, and you did the final tightening with channel locks or a wrench or something better than your personal meat hooks.

Those are the only Lee dies I have used. My info and experience with Lee is out of date I am sure. I have not bought anything new in that brand since 2005. What I did buy that worked well then is still working well now.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Thats all I buy any more. I have dies set from most of the manufacturers.

I see no difference in their use for my reloading. Except that I don't have to worry about breaking decapping pins with the lee dies.

same here!

I've been reloading a long time and have dies from all current makers as well as several that are no longer in business. They all load ammo quite well, there is as much AVERAGE difference in effect between dies of the same maker as between makers.

That's not to say that all users can do as well. Nothing works well if it's missused.

AS you are right I'm looking for that proverbal same shot hole. Problem is I'm trying to do it on a budget. It'll probally never happen. I have a dpms sass and a old 788 6mm rem that shoot 1/2 in groups at a hundred yards. Now I'm working on my sendero 7mm rum and my son-in law's 270. I'm retired from the navy and this how I spend my time. Not a lot of formal training just common sence and trial n erro.

For hunting rifle ammo, I think Lee dies are the berries! Of course, I don't hunt mosquitos at 200 yards...or even the monster B&C dragonflies!

For across the course "high-power" (full-bore) match ammo, I used to use whatever ball ammo was issued on the line, which is what the rules required back then in the commonwealth countries where I was shooting.

For REALLY accurate match ammo (benchrest competition) all my dies had or have a bolt handle on them. That is, I cut my own "zero-tolerance" chambers and don't use dies at all. No sizing was or is needed with that sort of chambering, though one does have to be meticulous in making his brass fit as perfectly as possible to start with.

Right now I am equipped for loading over 100 different cartridges, and most of my dies are RCBS because I like the folks there and I like the customer service standards they have. The second greatest number of dies I have is pretty much a toss-up between Bonanza and Redding. I have about 10 or 15 other makes of dies too...mostly one or two sets each of a brand but not always.

But Lee is catching up fast in my gunsmithing/loading room. Their dies are plenty good enough for all my hunting rifles & mil-surp plinkers and I really like the fact they cut like butter on my lathe.

So, if I want to customize any of their dies for some special purpose, it is easy to do. And it's inexpensive to do too...their dies are very inexpensive compared to the others...especially if you buy them second-hand as I often do for that purpose.

Lee makes 2 products that are head and shoulders above all others in their categories:

Lee Collet neck sizer

Lee Factory crimp die


After that their dies are not as good as Forster or Redding but are comparable to RCBS or Hornady

JMO

quote:

AS you are right I'm looking for that proverbal same shot hole. Problem is I'm trying to do it on a budget.

We all seek one hole groups but few of us honestly do it no matter how much we may spend on tools. If you hope to obtain that by buying a new set of dies you will likely be dissappointed no matter what brand or model of dies you buy. I cut about 1/8th inch from my 100 yd. groups by going to Forster/Redding dies and it cost quite a bit to obtain that improvement. (Well, I can probably get 'one hole' groups with any of my rifles IF I shoot 50 shot groups! )

I don't think a set of dies could give me one hole accuracy. I was simple trying to get the opinion of people that know more and have been doing this a lot longer than I have.

I have about 40 die sets, half of which are Lee and rest mixed brands. About one third of the Lee dies are collet dies. All of them work very well save one explained below.

If you want the best accuracy possible from conventional dies, start with the best brass and sort it (unless Lapua, then you just load it). After that I think using a concentric run-out tool to check loaded rounds is the next best investment. It will tell you if you have a setup problem before you pull the trigger.

I don't seem to mind the Lee lock rings as much as other folks. If you tighten them well the first use and force the o-ring tightly into its recess, they work just fine. The tiny bit of remaining flexibility seems to allow the sizing die to self-align in the threads as a case is processed.

The only "bad" set of Lee dies I got was a set in 458 SOCOM right as they first produced them. It wasn't a quality issue as much as a design decision to only size the first half of the case like a neck sizer. I think they changed them shortly after I bought mine.

Lee products, not just their dies, are cleverly engineered and economically made. In other words, they get by with cheap materials (softer steel, aluminum lock rings, etc.) because their engineering allows cheaper material to do an equally good job. Their products may also need some pre-use clean-up and polishing. Lee products will also wear out more quickly, but since you can generally buy about three Lee's for the price of anyone else's product the Lee's are price competitive even in the longer run.

If you are looking for accuracy, the Lee Collet resizing die not only typically helps with that, but also keeps cases from stretching so much and negates the need for messy lubricant, thus greatly speeding the reloading process. I try to use the Collet die for all of my bolt-action centerfire rifles. Other actions not so much.

But in using this die, I find I nearly always have to disassemble it, clean up the parts, and often hone the sizing mandrel down a few thousands of an inch (takes just a couple of minutes with a drill press and a swatch of emory cloth) for a snugger neck fit.

The Lee seating die will work if you have nothing else, but a good Vickerman-type, Lyman P-A, or Redding Benchrest seater will do a much better job than any Lee seater.

SR4759,
very easy and less time consuming to just take the correct one from the box and use it. Rather than looking up what a lyman number, rcbs or other shell holder number is, then looking for the box that has that same number in it. For some calibers its no problem-- like WM cases, 308/30-06 or 30-30 based.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
For hunting rifle ammo, I think Lee dies are the berries! Of course, I don't hunt mosquitos at 200 yards...or even the monster B&C dragonflies!

For across the course "high-power" (full-bore) match ammo, I used to use whatever ball ammo was issued on the line, which is what the rules required back then in the commonwealth countries where I was shooting.

For REALLY accurate match ammo (benchrest competition) all my dies had or have a bolt handle on them. That is, I cut my own "zero-tolerance" chambers and don't use dies at all. No sizing was or is needed with that sort of chambering, though one does have to be meticulous in making his brass fit as perfectly as possible to start with.

Right now I am equipped for loading over 100 different cartridges, and most of my dies are RCBS because I like the folks there and I like the customer service standards they have. The second greatest number of dies I have is pretty much a toss-up between Bonanaza and Redding. I have about 10 or 15 other makes of dies too...mostly one or two sets each of a brand but not always.

But Lee is catching up fast in my gunsmithing/loading room. Their dies are plenty good enough for all my hunting rifles & mil-surp plinkers and I really like the fact they cut like butter on my lathe.

So, if I want to customize any of their dies for some special purpose, it is easy to do. And it's inexpensive to do too...their dies are very inexpensive compared to the others...especially if you buy them second-hand as I often do for that purpose.

AC. +1 My second hand Lee Dies needed the tapers re-machined and they cut so easy. But there again,maybe thats why they needed re-machining. No problem with them since. They make great hunting bullets.jc

quote:

I cut about 1/8th inch from my 100 yd. groups by going to Forster/Redding dies

That's why I'm slowly migrating to Forster/Redding dies.

More good advice from TT:

quote:

If you want the best accuracy possible from conventional dies, start with the best brass and sort it (unless Lapua, then you just load it). After that I think using a concentric run-out tool to check loaded rounds is the next best investment. It will tell you if you have a setup problem before you pull the trigger.

In my earliest reloading adventures in my early teens I had a little Lee hand loader for my .222. It went boom anyway, so I was happy. And I was on the way to bigger things.

I later purchased a loading set up with a RCBS press, and RCBS standard dies and some Lees. I had some factory rifles with ok optics. I did some work with it, but my results were no better than the best factory loads. And sometimes a lot worse.

I ultimatly gave this set up to a hunter friend who does real good with it. He added some better accessory equipment too. He is a heck of a oustanding hunter, and a good loader. But he is not after the ultimate in rifle accuracy and performance. But the man can load and shoot his rifles, as well as hunt, and his trophy mounts show and prove that quick!

Fast forward some years.

I now had some rifles and optics that were capable of small groups and top notch accuracy.

I set up a new bench and had to purchase all new loading equipment as I had none left from before. I got Redding dies and specialty dies, although I like the Forester too, but I have Redding. I got the best stuff I could get, realizing I would likely refine the process, but that I would likley never change it out again.


I think the best equipment that I have that helped produce the best rounds, for hunting and target rifles ( that is leaving Dillon and handguns out of the equation), was the Sinclair Wilson trimmer, the top Starret calipers and mics, and the Redding Competition seaters.

The bushing dies are good for a dedicated target style gun too. But the neck turning and all that is not for me, unless you know you have a chamber and barrel that can put it to use.

While I am fortunate enough to have some nice equipment to use, and a variety of scales, tumblers, powder measures etc etc to speed up and help make the whole process more consistent, I would say the biggest additions, accuracy wise, were the rifles and scopes, and then the equipment above.

I have tried the Lee, and I have said here on AR there are guys who can make great ammo with them - I am just not one of them. The adjustment seems corse, or they loose their settings for me.

I do not own any Lee die sets or any of their other primary loading equipment. That said, I do own the Lee Factory crimp die in all the calibers I load, and I own a Lee decap die or two, and 4 of the collet neck dies. The reason they are there is IF I get off on trimming, or a little off on COL, that Lee FCD could help out. And for some brass of my buddies or son that I dont know what is, I let them decap with the Lee rather than mess up my good dies. Or if I need them just because.

But for the large part, most of my Lee's are unused. But if and when I do use them, they probably paid for themselves.

I did use the collett neck a couple of times, and the Lee crimp just to see how it might effect the performance. While it was oK, it was not better, and in some cases it was less in accuracy. I did later disassemble some rounds and find that the crimp or the neck die was distorting my jacket in some rounds. I will just chalk it up to my mistake as the user. But I also think there may be something there too. One thing is I am now used to the Redding, so familiarity is part of the total package and results.

So for some blasting ammo like big brusier 44 mags, or just range rounds for my son, I dont mind using the Lee. For the long range target gun that takes hours to make a few rounds, I stay with the Redding. And measure a lot LOL!

Some days I shoot them good, some better, and some not as good as I would like. But it is all still fun.

My 0.02 and I hope it helps.

I own lots of Lee reloading equipment. Their Classic Lee single stage press is great. I have obtained very accurate reloads using Lee dies and powder thrower. And it's all reasonably priced.
Customer service has been great!

My only problem, I'm not paying enough for them?

If it makes you feel better you could buy two of each and send me one.

The thing I dont like about Lee dies is the collet system for locking the expander into place. If that were threaded instead I would use more of them. I do have a few Lee dies though and that is really the only complaint I have. Setting the lock nut doesn't really bother me, it is pretty simple and I like to double check that anyway.

I try to be as precise as I can be and have dies buy two or three makers with the lee the only problem I have is the seating die, it varys from one round to the next giveing me a round that is + or - sometimes .010 on my overall this drives me nuts. I am wondering if there is anyone who can tell me how to cure this.

freetrapper 1950: if you are talking about the oal as the distance from the base of the case to the tip of the bullet, it is not the die but the bullet. That 0.010" is the difference in you bullets between the spot on the bullet were it contacts the seating stem and the tip of the bullet.

FT1950,
Try using an OAL guage that measure from the Ogive of the bullet. You will find very accurate seating. I think you will find that you are seating the bullet the same every time, it's just your method of measurement.

Hey Rusty can I exspect to get some dies from you Just trying to make a fellow reloader feel good about himself.

MDVJRP93,

How can I help you sir? If I'm not using it, I'll be glad to loan 'em!

My only problem, I'm not paying enough for them?



I was just joking about the line where you said you felt bad about how cheap they are.

Yep! I'm getting great results with my reloaded ammo using inexpensive Lee Reloading Equiptment. I could be paying a bunch for RCBS, Forrester, Redding or that POS stuff CH4D makes.

Everyone has a favorite as I do. I have been reloading for over 30 years and mainly used RCBS. I have purchased a few Lee dies, yes cheaper, but they (for me) seem to be a pain in the rear. I do however rave over their collet crimp dies. To each their own and if what you choose works well then go for it.