I am just curious as to how many guys weight every load of powder. I reload several calibers, but in particular am interested in the .223 since i shoot it the most. How much accuracy will be lost if the charges vary say .4gr or .5gr? I was talking to a friend who reloads with a benchrest guy who doesn't weigh every load! I figured if anybody would it would be the benchrest guys since they are after accuracy and precision. I would say i shoot paper allmost as much as i shoot varmints. With the load i'm working on right now, i am shooting right at moa. I know there is room for improvemnt. Any guesstimations on how far it would throw off my group if the charges varied .4gr thanks for any input you may have!

If I am shooting varmints or for fun, I drop my charges right from the hopper into the case. I verify every so often against a Ohaus 10/10 and keep on loading. When I finish a block of cases, I look at them under a strong light to make sure the powder looks pretty level in all of them.
Oh, by the way, I'm loading H335 in my .223 which runs thru a measure like water.

In your larger calibres, in the context of your post, I certainly doubt that .5 or even 1.0 would harm unless you're red lining your load and then you need to measure everything.

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How much accuracy will be lost if the charges vary say .4gr or .5gr?

Darn little!

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by wasbeeman:
When I finish a block of cases, I look at them under a strong light to make sure the powder looks pretty level in all of them.

IMO this step is mandatory for those that don't weigh every load.

I weight every rifle load. I only have a rcbs powder thrower so I weight and trickle. I use long stick powders

I load 223 with H-335 or RL-15 straight from the powder measure for all ammo to be used 300 yards and closer. I weigh each charge of RL-15 for my 600 yard stuff. I use an RCBS Uniflow with baffle.

i just finished loading 1k 223 with a2230 threw all the charges. i was checking them every 5-10 throws for consistancy and they were all either right on or within .01. this powder meters very well after the first 100 or so i stopped checking them except for when i added powder to the hopper or about every 100 or so. also once i finished a block i look in the cases with a light for eyeball consistancy.

When I am loading batches for the 223 rem I check every 10 that get charged.It helps ease your mind even when loading ball or other powders that meter well.

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
I load 223 with H-335 or RL-15 straight from the powder measure for all ammo to be used 300 yards and closer. I weigh each charge of RL-15 for my 600 yard stuff. I use an RCBS Uniflow with baffle.

Same here. Sometimes I don't bother weighing 600yd ammo, even with stick powders.

I weigh every load

All above is good advice especially the visual at the end just before seating you bullet. If you are using a dispenser you can average you weights by dropping and weighing about 10 to 12 drops. Mark your screw and go. Weighing every now and then is again good advice.

Reloading is something that should not be done in a hurry.I've seen my powder measure drop light loads and I've seen it drop heavy loads.The type of powder can make a big difference in how consistent the load drops are too.Another factor one needs to consider,is just how close are you to your max load.My advise is to weigh every charge and if you don't have the time to do it,go grab some factory stuff or just put off your loading until you have the time to do it right.

I shoot long range 300 to 1000 yards. I weigh every load as variations in load can affect the vertical grouping at the longer ranges. For short ranges or hunting, variations of 0.5 gr between consecutive rounds does not matter. In fact, last week I shot slowfire prone at 300 yards with 24 rounds with different loads that randomly varied up to 1.5 grain in the powder load - 44.7 to 46.2 grains of Varget behind a 155gr Sierra - I was just using up a bunch of leftover handloads. One shot went outside the bullseye and the rest fell inside it, which was 5.5" in diameter at 300 yards.

I use a Lyman electronic powder dispenser, quick easy and every charge is the same. Consistency is what I'm looking for from my loads.

Reading more causes me to remember more. I use to weigh every 10th but quit that long ago. There is more variation with the scale's zero than with the powder measure's accuracy. I do every so often check to see that the lock nuts are tight on the Uniflow, very often as a matter of fact. I have never had a bridge over in my Uniflow with H-335, RL-15, Unique, IMR-4064 or 4350. I shake each loaded round as I move it from press to box, to check for Squibs, which can be caused by mechanical troubles or mental errors.

I tested 20 rounds weigted versus 20 rounds straight from the powder measure a couple of times. The ones straight from the powder measure always at least equalled the weighed rounds and often times beat them handily. These were honest tests with the same lot components in identical shooting conditions, both starting with a cool clean barrel. This was both over a Chronograph and on paper.

You have to have a good routine when loading straight from the Uniflow. You can't baby the handle and you must be consistent. If I have a bad throw due to a stick powder not slicing clean, I dump that case back into the hopper and throw 2 or 3 charges into a cup and then dump that back into the hopper and continue. The baffle is very helpful and recommend you buy and use it.

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How much accuracy will be lost if the charges vary say .4gr or .5gr?

May I suggest you do an experiment with your rifle and load, varing the charge over a .4 gr range and see what it will do? Certainly none of us can tell what it will do to you.

Many of us feel that charges must be within .1 grain or it will be inaccurate. Maybe...IF it's on the ragged edges of what shoots well. But a properly chosen load will have a range in which such tiny variations don't mean a thing.

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Originally posted by bkmastr:
... Any guesstimations on how far it would throw off my group if the charges varied .4gr thanks for any input you may have!

It depends on how close to the center of the Harmonic Node your Load happens to be.

If you think of the muzzle moving in a Harmonic Node as an elongated " 8 ", the very most accurate loads are found at each end, where the muzzle nearly Stops and then reverses direction. For discussion, consider the loop 360deg, even though it crosses and recrosses itself. At the Apogee and Perigee of the " 8 ", think of them as the very best spot for the most accuracy. Your Loads may vary either side of those points by 0.2-0.4gr and still get excellent accuracy, it depends on the Cartridge.

Lets say your Bullet exited at the exact Apogee when the Load was 26.0 grains. And if you had loads of 25.7, 25.8, 25.9, 26.0, 26.1, 26.2, and 26.3, lets say you still have very small groups. The best way to determine where the best Harmonic Node is located, is still the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method.

Now to your question. if your normal Load is 26.2gr and if the load varies -0.4gr(to 25.8gr) then your accuracy should still be as good as the 26.2gr load. If however, the variance is +0.4gr then that moves you farther from the Harmonic Node to 26.6gr. It still may do OK, but not as well as when it varied toward the Node.

The farther your Muzzle gets from the Harmonic Node, the more it is moving and that causes the groups to be Larger.
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However, the amount of Powder is just one component in the Cartridge and they all have to be as close to the ones used during the Creighton Audette Testing as possible. Same with Bore condition.

Best of luck to you.

thanks guys! hotcore... i've never heard of the Creighton Audette Load Development Method. Makes sence! i've loaded alot of test loads for my .223 and am now working on my new 25-06 with the winchester 75 gr hp. I hope to "mist" a few prairie dogs long range this summer. once again, thanks for the help.
ps... i was just looking in my reloading manual and with varget, starting load is 43.6gr @ 3200fps, add 1.8 gr and it gets you another 100 fps all the way up to 50.7gr @ 3600fps. that in mind, every .5gr would be around 28 fps. which may not be all that much for what kind of shooting i do (0-300yards). of course i am not going to just throw my charge into the case and seat the bullet. safety comes first, and i will need to do the basic check, and eyeball the charges in the case. i load around 3400 fps, so that gives me alot of room for the load to be off to the point it causes pressure issues. i'm sure my thrower will not be off 4grs. when i do accuracy loads for punchin holes in paper i will most certainly weigh every load. thanks again guys

quote:

Originally posted by 375fan:
I use a Lyman electronic powder dispenser, quick easy and every charge is the same. Consistency is what I'm looking for from my loads.

I have the 1200DPS, probably what you have too? It can be off! Watch your final weight after the beep and use a second scale when you are finished to take random samples. All in all though, it's the best and most accurate repeater I know of. Unless you want to spend 7 or 8 thousand bucks on a medicorp pharmaceutical scale...

I like my DPS1200. And like Whatthe said, you definitely have to wait and see what weigh comes up after the beep!

Because I use Lee Perfect, scale .22Hornet-, .222Rem and .223Rem. Also 9mm Luger and .357 Rem Maximum, because those are T/C Contenders.
.308Win, .30-06Spr and 9,3x57Mauser; no way.

It depends. For longer range, a +/- 0.5gr either way will change your POI quite a bit past 300yds. if you are just blasting an AR @ 100yds, no problem.
I weigh all my stick powder charges as the measures can vary as much as 1gr for each throw. It does play havoc w/ precision rifle loads. Ball/spherical powders can be thrown as accurately as +/- 0.1gr.

With ball or flake powders right from measure stick powders I weigh each one. I try to not use to many stick powders.

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Originally posted by p dog shooter:
With ball or flake powders right from measure stick powders I weigh each one. I try to not use to many stick powders.

Don't limit yourself! You will find that stick powders often give the best results. If your looking for just a plink'en round, use what ever lifts your shorts, otherwise use what groups best..

that is actually primarily what i am useing right now. finished up the 3031 on the 223 and just finished varget with the 75grainers in the 25-06. was thinking of going back to aa 2460. it is my best over all powder with any bullet weight in the 223. nobody around here has it tho

There is another issue that I am surprized no one has brought up and that is whether the error in the thrown charge is less than the error in powder, which in most cases makes it a non-issue.

What I am saying is if that .4 gn error yields 25 fps and the powder itself varies 28 fps with identical charges, the error is less than the powder itself is capable of.

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I have the 1200DPS, probably what you have too?

Whatthe, Yes that is what I have,had for 10 years and yes I watch weight after beep, also do random weights on scale. Have loaded umpteen thousands of rounds with it and have found it to be extremely reliable. I follow warm up procedures to the letter. If I even suspect something is amiss I'll start over from the beginning, I'm alittle anal when it comes to my reloading. All told it is a great tool for reloading.

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Originally posted by 375fan:

quote:

I have the 1200DPS, probably what you have too?

Whatthe, Yes that is what I have,had for 10 years and yes I watch weight after beep, also do random weights on scale. Have loaded umpteen thousands of rounds with it and have found it to be extremely reliable. I follow warm up procedures to the letter. If I even suspect something is amiss I'll start over from the beginning, I'm alittle anal when it comes to my reloading. All told it is a great tool for reloading.

It is an awesome scale! And you're right "very accurate". I always us the black trickle insert regardless of the powder. a little slower but very accurate with the sticks. Slower is O.K., gives me time to throw down some suds between powder and seat!

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Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

How much accuracy will be lost if the charges vary say .4gr or .5gr?

Darn little!

quote:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wasbeeman:
When I finish a block of cases, I look at them under a strong light to make sure the powder looks pretty level in all of them.

IMO this step is mandatory for those that don't weigh every load.

With all due respect, I do beg to differ. If you are shooting a 416 Rigby with 95 grains of whatever, than .4 to .5 makes little difference. However, just about any .22 cal bullet between 40 and 80 grains, the difference can be significant! Perhaps not in a plinking round but can ruin your day hunting little dogs out at 3 and 4 hundred yards.

I use a slow and ancient Belding & Mull powder measure and I have found once set---with ANY type powder it maintains accuracy. I weigh a charge every now and then to check, but just throw most. You will find different brands of case will make much more difference than a slight difference in powder charge. Oh yes, by all means look at the charged cases on the block to see if they all look same.

I weigh every 10th charge when reloading pistol rounds, but I weigh every single charge on my rifles. Not that I am worried so much about slight variations, but that I have the time to do so and am somewhat anal about accuracy. Errors in bullet placement are going to be mine and not my equipment or ammunition.
ema39

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
What I am saying is if that .4 gn error yields 25 fps and the powder itself varies 28 fps with identical charges, the error is less than the powder itself is capable of.

The effects would cancel each other on some cases and be cumulative on others, so velocity variation would double.

I use a DPS1200 and have found that watching the weight (minus) with the pan removed between charges will indicate if zero begins to wander.

thanks for all the helpful information guys. At one point i was seriously considering getting a 1200dps or a rcbs, but have read so many negative reviews on both but mainly the 1200 dps... Also, on a normal year probably load under 3000 loads with all calibers combined. this year however i started reloading 9mm for a friend, and just loaded 800 within the last couple weeks. I may just end up getting a new rcbs balance scale. My old one is not accurate and will show two different weights when i take the pan off and put it back on. I had to go back to my old lee magnetic dampened 100gr scale. It seems to hold a zero and won't show different readings.

quote:

Originally posted by bkmastr:
thanks for all the helpful information guys. At one point i was seriously considering getting a 1200dps or a rcbs, but have read so many negative reviews on both but mainly the 1200 dps...

Don't know where you are reading the negs on the 1200DPS, but as far as I am concerned it's the most accurate a consistent scales I have used and I have used lots and lots!??

It was on the midway usa site. Don't get me wrong... there were alot of positive as well, but a 3.4 out of 5 is something i'm not sure i wanna take my chances with. jmo tho

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewp...productnumber=279731

another vote for the DPS 1200. Mine sat in a box in a rental storage unit for a year. Unheated, un airconditioned and so forth. When I took it out and set it up, it went right back to work.
With some folks, the only way they can brag on their stuff is to trash someone else's. Often without ever seeing or owning the other stuff. And, of course, you have the my stuff cost more, ergo, it must be better crowd.

Whatthe I have loaded 100 or so pounds of imr type stick powders I just prefer ball when I can get to work. For high volume loading like for Pdogs ect where one is loading thousands of rounds I'll go with a ball.

Right now I am loading 4831 in my 338 mag 4064 in my 416 and 4198 in my 45-70. I use stick if it is the best and I don't have to load hundreds of rounds at a time.

I weight every charge for my hunting loads, every tenth for plinking ammo - there is not much to loose there.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Whatthe I have loaded 100 or so pounds of imr type stick powders I just prefer ball when I can get to work. For high volume loading like for Pdogs ect where one is loading thousands of rounds I'll go with a ball.

Right now I am loading 4831 in my 338 mag 4064 in my 416 and 4198 in my 45-70. I use stick if it is the best and I don't have to load hundreds of rounds at a time.

Sounds good to me! 100 Lbs? You're almost as bad as me. I go to the range twice a week and compete somewhere at least once a month or at least try to. I have a 408 Cheytac (M200) and an AI (AWSM) 338 that eat powder like a kid eats candy! Between these two powder eaters, my two 308's and AR 15's, I went through 23 Lbs. of powder last month alone! I have even been contacted by the ATF!

As has been mentioned numerous times, I have found little to no differences in 90% of the loads I have thrown or measured. There are other components that weigh into it as well as were already mentioned, but overall I throw most all of my loads anymore.

I have and use 4 different Uniflow measures depending on which/ or what I am loading for. They are numbered so that I don't grab the one with a small rotor and head to the range to load for a rifle. This I have found makes a difference in the consistency depending on what your loading with or for. Anything over about 35grs with the smaller rotor and a stick powder will get sort of squirrelly as will lower loads using the large rotor. One exception I have also found is that the large rotor is better for flaked powders than the smaller for consistency. I use both stick and ball the most, and with a consistent rhythm, and a tap or two on the plastic funnel I rarely have any issues with short changing the desired load.

I don't shoot competition, and only target practice or hunt. I do weigh out the loads for a couple of rifles but these as others said, are used for ranges exceeding 600yds. Out this far the tiny bits add up, and combined with field conditions and shooter issues will throw a group out in a heartbeat literally.

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Mke / Tx

I think to perhaps call this one a day is to say that "consistency" is what breeds accuracy. Once you have found your load, it is critical for the sake of accuracy to maintain consistency through-out your loading process. Everyone here has their own idea of how accurate they want their load to be. Be it hunting, tactical, BR etc..But one thing I feel we all have in common is maintaining the load we decided is our keeper. So to do this we must:

1. Maintain case dimensions, cleaning, trimming and integrity.

2. Bullet consistency by weighing and eying our selected bullets and keeping the O.A.L dialed in the same as our test O.A.L.

3. Bullet seat pull. Keeping the bullet seated in the case with a consistent pull out weight.

4. Use the same primer, powder, and powder weight.

This is the basic formula to maintain duplication of our selected test load. If one is to wonder off in any way i.e. dirty flash-hole different primer, different O.A.L etc., chances are you are not going to have the same results you liked in your selected load. Now if your using this load to hunt and you have a margin of error, well O.K. However, if you are shooting BR and even tactical, wondering off your proven parameters can and will cost you at the range. So I think it's fair to say that "consistency" is our goal and you can go from this point to how you are going to use that load i.e. hunting plinking etc..