Another great one has fallen. Good grief. Hodgdon never made a grain of powder!
IMR never came out with much new. It's just that not much new has been developed powder wise. Thus the IMR line is still competative. It says a lot when the accuracy load for many cartridges that require a slow burning powder is still the 50 year old IMR 4350!
There isn't anything on either of their websites re this,do you have a link to anything? There was a rumor on the net that IMR had gone bankrupt a few years ago so I Emailed Tom Dierkin at IMR about it,he told me it was BS. And he was right! Jeff
Posts: 236 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 16 October 2001
I have been at lots of companies when they were sold. What to expect: 1) Layoffs 2) Sell off assets and out source work. 3) Cease R&D 4) Cease lower profit products 5) As soon as the bottom line is improved at the expense of the future, a highly inflated public offering is made. Many employees will buy that stock. The buyer will make a huge profit AND retain 51% of the new stock.
What does it mean to us handloaders? 1) SR7625 be dropped from the line 2) Many powders will be made over seas. 3) We could be stock holders!
That makes absolutely no sense in this case. IMR MAKES gun powder, but has no source to capital, and a weak marketing department.
Hodgdon SELLS gun powder, but has no manufacturing (save for Pyrodex). They have strong marketing skills.
In this case, I would think that ADI (Australia) should be worried that Hodgdon is going to shift production to their owned subsidiary. If nothing else, their bargaining strength is greatly increased. JMO, Dutch.
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000
Back when IMR was a Dupont company I might have screamed about this. Since their sale I feel the company has gone to hell not because they didn't make good powder. But because they didn't know how to market it.
I like Hogdon powders and feel they offer a tremendous value for the dollar.
As shooters we don't have a better ally in the Support of our hunting and fishing rights than the people in Shawnee Mission KS...
Posts: 457 | Location: Kentucky | Registered: 25 February 2002
This might possibly have several GOOD side-effects:
- Hodgdon's has been a leader for over 50 years in making various powders available to American shooters. Now they can even cook up new ones based on their perceptions of the market needs.
- IMR is a Canadian company...as such they have to tread lightly with the rabidly anti-gun Canadian government. Now, Hodgdon can always bring IMR home if the political pressures become too great. That may get them a bit more leverage with the Canucks, who desperately need more employment in their eastern sphere.
- It may prevent IMR from evenutally going under as political pressures worsen in Canada. Profitable or no, there is only so much a company can do when faced with a hostile federal government.
The Hodgdon group is one of the few that have always been 100% supporters of the Second Amendment. That is true even if doing so sometimes irks the U.S. NRA and disturbs its "in bed with the feds" wishy-washy politics as usual.
I figure we should give them a chance and see what good might come of all this. We can always turn a cold-shoulder later if they earn that reaction.
AC
Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001
Dutch, you can't imagine how many times and how much bs I have had to listen to about the synergy of the acquisition at each company. Forgive me if your sales job doesn't make me bang a drum.
-- A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.
Clark, what's this bull about synergies? No one said anything about synergies.
IMR was dying. Their business was to milk a cash cow, and the cow was running dry. Their share of the market was dropping, quickly.
You know what the future of IMR was? Chapter 7. How much machinery and employees would be left, then? I've heard all this "they're going to ruin the company" stuff before. What a load of serious bull. Reduce R&D? Explain how R&D can be reduced below 0, and I'll start paying attention. Dutch.
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000
I've got to free up some cash to lay in a supply of 3031 in case it goes away. I use it in so many cartridges. Guess I'd better write Hogdon ask them not to muck it up.
Hodgdons is a great company, in getting what consumers want and supporting gun rights. May be the best thing for IMR as they may be better at marketing it.And maybe bring it back home.
My personal experience with them is they were the only major shooting sports company or organization who tried to help us set up a TV Network for Shooting Sports with some dollars.C&H was a small one that helped also...Ed.
Hubel is right about Hodgdon, they are a great company. Read their mission statement.
I've used their products on many occasions, but have grown to love IMR. It sounds like a good arrangememt, and I have no doubt the people from Kansas will do well by us.
Posts: 594 | Location: MT. | Registered: 05 June 2003
This doesn't set well with me at all. I reload for 11 different calibers using mostly IMR powders. I dread the thought of having to work up accuracy loads all over again. It's taken me years. Some powders will probably be discontinued, especially those with similar numbers. I see nothing good for the shooter coming from this acquisition. Best wishes.
Have shot Hodgon powders for years and Have also shot Brownings and Browning has not made any firearms, but they are still great firearms. Out sourcing is the way to go, most mfg. companies do it. Most powder lots are a little different then the ones before it and that hasn't changed in years so if you are shooting for accuracy you have to deal with it which is part of the reloading game. Good Luck
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cal Sibley: [QB]This doesn't set well with me at all. I reload for 11 different calibers using mostly IMR powders. I dread the thought of having to work up accuracy loads all over again. It's taken me years. Some powders will probably be discontinued, especially those with similar numbers. I see nothing good for the shooter coming from this acquisition. Best wishes.
Cal, reloading wise, I'm in the same boat you are, but I think it will be a good merger. You are right, they probably will drop some duplicated "number" powers, but I'll wager a guess they drop their H numbered products. Why: because they imported most of them, they have moved mostly to and spent much money promoting the "Extreme" powder series, and finally they paid good money for the IMR product line. Don't forget too, the surplus line of powder wasn't going to last forever.
I would not look for any major changes to be immediate. Heck, I still think of IMR as DuPont, and it hasn't been that way for some time!
Posts: 594 | Location: MT. | Registered: 05 June 2003
I have used powders from Alliant (Hercules), Norma, RWS, Hodgdon, Accurate, and IMR-Dupont since 1954. It is all good, and I hate it when ANY powder is discontinued! ANY lost powder cuts our options. I hope Hodgdon keeps the IMR line exactly as it is except for possible exact duplicates like IMR/Hodgdon 4985, etc.
While I am not as dependent upon IMR's powders as I once was I too am concerned but now I know some other powders are pretty good also.
In particular IMR 3031 has even sentimental value to me as well as it's performance. That is one powder that I really would miss if it changed.
As far as I can tell or remember the IMR line has been so consistant. Now not everything made in 1950 is the best today. Almost everything can be improved. It's even in their name.
This just can't be as serious as what happened in 1964.
quote:Originally posted by Savage 99: ...In particular IMR 3031 has even sentimental value to me as well as it's performance. That is one powder that I really would miss if it changed. ...
Now there's another one for the "you might be a gun nut if..." thread.
But darn it if I don't understand...
Posts: 2324 | Location: Staunton, VA | Registered: 05 September 2002
quote:Originally posted by seafire/ B17G: I just emailed Hodgdon indicating as a consumer that I hope they keep the IMR line available.
I hope others take a few moments to do so also, and they can hear from consumers and what consumers want.
Fine idea, but maybe unnecessary. I did it, this what I sent:
quote:Congratulations on your recent acquisition of the IMR powder line. I have been an enthusiastic user of the IMR and Hodgden powders since 1971, when I began to reload. I buy H-870 (until very recently) and H-380 in eight pound jugs, and stock at least one pound of each IMR type at my loading bench at any given time.
The "rumor" and concern among many reloaders (see http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=009968 ) is that somehow the long standing Hodgden powders and IMR powders might somehow be consolidated and combined at the expense of eliminating some useful selections in both lines, that, upon first blush, seem redundant.
I, among many others, look forward to continued use of the full IMR line, as well as the full Hodgden line, since much of our loading is with long established loads in what are sometimes "finicky" cartridges. Faced with having to change loads, I would not look forward to repeating my experimentation with as large a selection of powders as are in the marketplace today.
Thank you for your consideration, Ed
Here is the reply I received:
quote: Ed, We have no plans to consolidate the lines from either company. We feel that they both have unique (excuse the wording) features and advantages. We will continue to supply the products unchanged and from current plants. We look forward to doing more aggressive marketing and updating some of the IMR data etc. We hope that you will continue to use our products and appreciate the business that you have given us in the past.
Good Shooting, Phil Hodgdon
{EDITED to add:} I thanked Mr. Hodgden for his response and he acknowledged with this:
quote:No problem, I just hope that all of our IMR customers will have patience with us, as we move the packaging and distribution to Kansas, and get manuals and information out etc. We pride ourselves on customer service, and right now I feel like we are not up to speed yet on the IMR line.
Thanks again, Phil
{/edit}
[ 10-09-2003, 21:30: Message edited by: eshell ]
Posts: 588 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 08 April 2003
I just sent them a email last night.. I got the same reply as eshell.. But I also asked in my email if they had any planes to change to the round containers.. In his reply he did say in the future they do plan to change to the round canisters.. Which to me is a GOOD thing ..
Living within 5 miles from the Hodgdon location, I have had occaision to meet Bob, Phil and Bruce when he was alive and I will say that they are all gentlemen and honest to a fault. I have no doubt that if Phil says there will be no change other than packaging and marketing, then that is the way it will be. I wish them nothing but success and prosperity. Anyone can stop in anytine and ask any question and they will be remarkably responsive.
Posts: 3942 | Location: Kansas USA | Registered: 04 February 2002
No more FUNNELING the left over powder from the hopper back to the 1# IMR cans That is good news. Guess I'll still have to save a few pre-Hodgdon cans for nostalgia.
quote:Originally posted by Alberta Canuck: This might possibly have several GOOD side-effects:
- Hodgdon's has been a leader for over 50 years in making various powders available to American shooters. Now they can even cook up new ones based on their perceptions of the market needs.
- IMR is a Canadian company...as such they have to tread lightly with the rabidly anti-gun Canadian government. Now, Hodgdon can always bring IMR home if the political pressures become too great. That may get them a bit more leverage with the Canucks, who desperately need more employment in their eastern sphere.
- It may prevent IMR from evenutally going under as political pressures worsen in Canada. Profitable or no, there is only so much a company can do when faced with a hostile federal government.
The Hodgdon group is one of the few that have always been 100% supporters of the Second Amendment. That is true even if doing so sometimes irks the U.S. NRA and disturbs its "in bed with the feds" wishy-washy politics as usual.
I figure we should give them a chance and see what good might come of all this. We can always turn a cold-shoulder later if they earn that reaction.
AC
I realy have to agree with you on this one
Posts: 46 | Location: Friendship,Wis. USA | Registered: 18 November 2001
quote:Originally posted by heavy varmint: No more FUNNELING the left over powder from the hopper back to the 1# IMR cans That is good news. Guess I'll still have to save a few pre-Hodgdon cans for nostalgia.
Steve:
Looks as tho, we all can keep getting the powders that we like. Maybe they will use the Round Hodgdon containers.
I put IMR powders into empty Hodgdon containers and labeled them for years. Then I started to just use them straight from the can. I use Lee powder dippers and a beam scale.
Just got a 69 cent auto funnel, and it is easy to pour the powder back into the container from the trickler now. I pour the powder into an 8 ounce plastic empty yogurt container,( complete with lids) while I reload and then with an automotive funnel it goes easily right back into the metal IMR container.
Since I have an 8 yr old son, and a wife who go thru tons of yogurt, I have an endless supply of the containers. Considering I counted 60 containers of powder in my powder closet, guess I have enough to carry me for a while.
For nostalgia's sake, glad I have not thrown away an IMR container for the last year. I'd like to see them stay around since almost everything in our world is made of plastic, instead of metal anymore. With the Remington 710., even rifle are becoming plastic.
I've set thru the same bs as Clark, and I know what he's talking about. In this case though I think it's decidedly different. Hogdon is a fine company and, I think, run by fine people, so I'm all for it. We need more supporters of the industry and wour rights like the people of Hogdon. I personally like most Hogdon powders better than IMR anyway, so no matter what they do in my book it will be an improvement. I do hope they continue to market both, as I do use some IMR powder.
IMR powders are by far my favorite when it comes to rifles. 3031 is the best powder in the world, as far as I'm concerned.
IMR canisters are also my favorite. They are extremely space efficent and easy to pour powder back into...you just have to be smarter than the can!
Looks like I will be saving my 'ol metal cans for when they transition to the big, round, pain in the ass plastic cans...
It really doesn't matter to me who is writing the checks to pay the bills, as long as I get to keep shooting IMR powders. Hodgdon powders are great too, but I'm an IMR fan!
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