What I didn't know was that the moderator would squeal to the administrator about it.

Unless you were drawn here to contribute to the reloading press discussion by happenstance?

Just so I know for the next time, would I have sparked your ire if I had not directly quoted from his PM? I promise to play fair.

To get this back on topic.

I am curious as to how easy it is to change the dies on the Dillion and LNL. Specifically, I would use the press to load .223 and .45 ACP. How much would I need to change to move from one to the other (besides dies)?

lets assume 3 dies..
on the LnL, its stick and twist the 3 bushings, changing the shellplate and spring
adjust powder, or pop in another powder thrower, if you really want to get fancy ...

1 minute, from having dies and shell plate handy to adjusting powder ...

if you have to change from large to small primers, add 2 minutes, just to be careful..

btw, this is HIGH side estimates, assuming you have already set the dies once before.. it takes ME longer to get the right plate out of the drawer and get the die box than changing them

jeffe

Jack,
on my SDB, it takes probably 5-10 minutes to change from large to small primers and change dies. i had expected the 550 and 650 guys to have chimed in by now, though.

As shown this pic of my XL 650, I acquired an extra tool head per caliber as well as a second priming unit (SP + LP). Presently, caliber switch takes me about 15', not counting readjusting the powder measure. Sooner or later I'll take the next step and buy extra powder measures.

quote:

Originally posted by NEJack:
To get this back on topic.

I am curious as to how easy it is to change the dies on the Dillion and LNL. Specifically, I would use the press to load .223 and .45 ACP. How much would I need to change to move from one to the other (besides dies)?

The Dillon has the best setup IMO; a tool head that holds the dies. Pull two pins & swap the entire tool head out w/o ever touching the dies. The LNL works too, just have to remove each die. Put the powder measure back on, swap the shell plate & you are ready to go. You can change calibers in maybe 2min. If you have to go from large to small primers, say 5min. One reason I prefer the 550B to the 650 for multiple calibers, it's just easier to change over.

Short of spending 10k or more Im a Dillon guy.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
The Dilon has the best setup IMO; a tool head that holds thge dies. Pull two pins & swap the entire tool hejad out w/o ever touching the dies. The LN works too, just have to remove each die. Put the powder measure back on, swap the shell palte & you are ready to go. You can change calibers in maybe 2min. If yo uhave to go from large to small primers, say 5min. One reason I prefer the 550B to the 650 for multiple calibers, it's just easier to change over.

For rifle reloading, where you often need to change up the setup (add a shoulder bump here, switch to a neck die there, change a bullet, etc.), the Hornady excels. You can swap any single die or tool with a flick of the wrist, and the Hornady PM will work in any station, so you can have two or more steps before dumping powder if you want. BTW, a Hornady PM and linkage will work in any station on a Dillon press too.

If you like the idea of buying a whole PM for each toolhead, get a Dillon. The PM must be really hard to set up, what with most of their users recommending buying a separate one for each toolhead.

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by BigJakeJ1s:

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
The Dilon has the best setup IMO; a tool head that holds thge dies. Pull two pins & swap the entire tool hejad out w/o ever touching the dies. The LN works too, just have to remove each die. Put the powder measure back on, swap the shell palte & you are ready to go. You can change calibers in maybe 2min. If yo uhave to go from large to small primers, say 5min. One reason I prefer the 550B to the 650 for multiple calibers, it's just easier to change over.

For rifle reloading, where you often need to change up the setup (add a shoulder bump here, switch to a neck die there, change a bullet, etc.), the Hornady excels. You can swap any single die or tool with a flick of the wrist, and the Hornady PM will work in any station, so you can have two or more steps before dumping powder if you want. BTW, a Hornady PM and linkage will work in any station on a Dillon press too.

If you like the idea of buying a whole PM for each toolhead, get a Dillon. The PM must be really hard to set up, what with most of their users recommending buying a separate one for each toolhead.

Andy

I would tend to agree as far as rifle loading & specific die swapping, but for mass quanitities of pistol ammo or say 223/308, There isn't much swapping of dies that goes on. Everything gets FL sized, you can use an X-die to avoid trimming, away you go. The Dillon PM is no more diff to setup than any other measure. The lack of a micrometer powder bar means you have to set it up from scratch when swapping powders/calibers, but a Akutek bar solves that. I only have an extra PM on my 550B for rifle rounds becuase of the bar swap from small to large.

well ive got both and to squelch the argument there isnt squat diffence in the time it takes to swap things. There both fast. A square deal is a bit slower but once youve got it down its a 5 minute job. Who here doesnt have 5 minutes. that been said, me im a bit lazy and tend to buy a press set it up in one caliber and leave it. Before i had a fire that i lost all my gear in i had 6 square deals set up and a 550. A little differnt know. I have 3 lnls, two with case feeders, one for 223 one for 44 mag and one for 45 colt & acp. One with no case feeder for 308 and various other rifle rounds i want production loading. I have a 550 set up and another in the box i will set up today. I used the one 550 for odds and ends and will now run one with small primer and one with large. My ulitmate press woud be a 650 with a hornady measure. I love those hornady measures. The quick swap insert makes swapping calibers or loads much faster. I have about 20 of them set up in charges i use the most. Even bench mounted one. Kind of handy to adjust the measure on a stand and then swap the insert into the measure on your progressive. Did i tell you i hate swapping about anything!

quote:

The Dillon PM is no more diff to setup than any other measure.

With the Hornady PM, you can use a micrometer insert (like you suggested), or you can swap pre-adjusted standard metering inserts, with no tools, and you don't have to empty & re-fill the hopper if you don't change powder. You can even swap in a drain to empty the PM while still on the press. And all of these features are 100% Hornady factory supported.

Andy

Got another chance to look at both the Dillion and the Hornady the other day.

I like the LNL system. My single stage press is a Hornady, and that is something I love.

The Dillon looks like it is designed very well. If I was only going to use it for one thing, I would go with that. But I will hopefully be loading 45 ACP and .223. I think for what I want the Hornady will be the better set up. Now I just have to convience my bride to let me get it!

One thing I haven't heard mentioned is the difference in powder measures. I have 2 Dillon presses, a Square Deal B, and an older RL-450. If the Dillon line of loaders have a weak link, it is with their powder measures. They are the sliding bar variety, and are made from die cast Aluminum. Being as they are die cast, and the internals of the housing are not machined after casting, they are built to quite loose tolerances compared to the steel, rotating drum measures like Hornady, Redding, Lyman, and the like.

I've had to send back my Dillon measures twice because both of them siezed up using H-110, which is a very fine ball powder that gets lodged in between the die cast housing and the sliding Aluminum bar. Aluminum against Aluminum is a bad combination that can, and in fact does cause galling. Dillon has addressed this somewhat by coating the bar and inside of the housing with a Teflon type of material. The problem still exists however.

Another issue is with long grained, very coarse rifle powders like IMR 4831. These powders are difficult to meter in any measure, but they are exceptionally bad in the Dillon. The rotating drum measures like the Hornady and Redding accomplish this somewhat better.

Finally the Hornady set up has much stronger linkage that offers better mechnical advantage. The linkage on my Dillon Square Deal is quite "Mickey Mouse", containing plastic wing nuts accompanied with strip steel inserts to engage the threads. My Square deal is in .44 Magnum, and was one of the first ones sold after they came out with them. Perhaps they've improved on them since, I don't know so I cannot comment. From my experiences, if I were going to buy another full progressive press, I would go with the "Full Dress" Hornady LNL. As always, your milage may vary. Bill T.

I do have another question about the Hornady press.

My wife relented, and said that I can get after we get some other things paid off. So I am starting to buy a few odds an ends that I will need like the shell plates and such.

My question is on the Hornady powder measurer, is it worth it to get the pistol rotor or will the standard rotor work ok? Also, is it possible to take the powder measurer off and use it seperatly (I was thinking of setting the charge on the bench, then dialing it in on the press)?

you get a pistol and rifle rotor .. and pistons .. pistons are cheap.. so its easy to get them set, then turn them out, and pop them back in .. check, of course ..

for me, i keep the primer cam and primer slide springs .. i bent 2 cams, so i keep a spare..

can of compressed air is a good thing!

yes, you can dismount and get close .. though a couple primed cases will let you do it quickly on the press.

i frequently take the powder measure out, when doing load dev, and charge the cases when the shell is at the top of the press .. easy to do, and fast ..

Has anyone used the RCBS progressive press?
I load mostly rifle, but you know how many you need to load for a good time with pistol....
I m a RSBS guy though and though. When loading rifle I make sure each is loaded for precision. So dose anyone have there .02 for RCBS??

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
Has anyone used the RCBS progressive press?

I don't know anyone who personally uses an RCBS Progressive, but with that said I've examined the press pretty well and it seems to be patterned after the Dillion 550. While copy is the sincerest from of engineering flattery, I would go with a Dillon if that type of press is what you want.

Actually the sliding tool head is yet another reason I would go with the Hornady LNL. It doesn't have that huge cutout in the top of the press to accept it, making for a more solid setup.

In progressive rifle reloading rigidity is everything. The Hornady LNL, with it's locking die inserts, is a much more solid set up. Yes, it may take a few more minutes to change out dies, but the mechanical strength factor it achieves with that design, IMHO, is worth it.

With that said, there is nothing "wrong" with the RCBS machine, and I'm sure with RCBS's reputation in the industry, they will back up everything they sell should any problems arise. Bill T.

quote:

Originally posted by billt:

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
Has anyone used the RCBS progressive press?

I don't know anyone who personally uses an RCBS Progressive, but with that said I've examined the press pretty well and it seems to be patterned after the Dillion 550. While copy is the sincerest from of engineering flattery, I would go with a Dillon if that type of press is what you want.

Actually the sliding tool head is yet another reason I would go with the Hornady LNL. It doesn't have that huge cutout in the top of the press to accept it, making for a more solid setup.

In progressive rifle reloading rigidity is everything. The Hornady LNL, with it's locking die inserts, is a much more solid set up. Yes, it may take a few more minutes to change out dies, but the mechanical strength factor it achieves with that design, IMHO, is worth it.

With that said, there is nothing "wrong" with the RCBS machine, and I'm sure with RCBS's reputation in the industry, they will back up everything they sell should any problems arise. Bill T.

Now how much time will the progressive press save me over say a turret press?

quote:

Originally posted by James Kain:
Now how much time will the progressive press save me over say a turret press?

A lot, regardless of make. I own both. A Dillon progressive, and a Redding T-7 Turret press. A turret press is much like a single stage in that you only accomplish one thing on one case with every pull of the handle. The only advantage a turret press offers is the ability to switch from one die to another by revolving the turret.

A progressive press, again regardless of make, performs several tasks on several cases with each pull of the handle. In short it maximizes motion to produce several results at once. Resizing and depriming at one station, neck expanding and repriming at another, and powder drop at another, and finally bullet seating and crimping at yet another station. All at the same time, with one pull of the handle.

You get a finished round with every pull. Not so with a turret, or a single stage because all of these operations have to be done seperately. Bill T.

Thanks, was just wondering about the time savings.
How about the RCBS piggy back? This turns the single stage into a progressive press. I talked to RCBS just a little while ago and they are sending me some documentation on it. That would make a good setup for me. Having my Lyman Turret Press and my RC turned into a progressive.

QUOTE]
Now how much time will the progressive press save me over say a turret press?[/QUOTE]

I have a pair of Layman AA Turrets that I can load around 150 rounds an hour on. I just put a case in and run it up, lower flip the head and keep going. The powder measure rides the top.

My Dillon 300's that I have put an auto drop powder measure on (LEE TYPE) will do 300 rounds an hour, progression of the shell plate is manual as is case insertion/removal.

The 550 I have will do about 400-425/hr with manual plate progression and hand inserted cases.

the 650 will do a comfortable 550 and hour with full progression juts add a bullet with an auto case feed.

I have an old Star with a case Dillon case feeder with manual plate progression that I can run about 400 and hour with also. Just add a bullet and flip the shell holder.

Greg

One thing you can do that will be helpful in making your decision, is to go on You Tube and type in "Dillon 550", or, "Hornady Lock N Load", or most any make of press you are intrested in. There are many videos posted there that you can watch to give you a better understanding of what goes on with these tools when they are in operation. As they say a picture is worth a thousand words. A video is worth 10,000 more. Bill T.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V48xgW80A0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzrvZ0MLkwI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...QHU0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...7ekw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4_4Phh-Sqk

Here are several you might find helpful. Bill T.

the piggyback is both "contraption" and "neither fish nor fowl" .. when installed on a press, the press can't be used for rifles, and IIRC, the piggyback only does pistol ...

oh, yeah, and costs more than a lee autoloader

Call the Piggyback what you will, but it WILL load rifle cartridgess, up to the .30-'06 case length. The last use I made of the press was to load ~500 .223s without a single hiccup.

I have had mine for about ten years now, and I won't say I have never had an issue. What I WILL say is that once you learn the press it works well enough I have no desire to go buy anything else. RCBS' customer service has always been first rate, in my estimation, and I will stick with them.

without a doubt, rcbs customer service is excellent.. the only thing i ever returned was a piggyback "1" ...

while i have no doubt you can use the piggyback 1,2, or 3 to load 30-06, rcbs says 7.62x79 is about the longest ..
http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/...yback_III_Manual.pdf
and i would NOT use it for a belt case.. just my opinion...

the ammomaster progressive is kind of interesting though.. but spendy

I have somewhat a different opinion, I guess... it is my experience that if a shell comes out of a chamber, it will go back in. Brass has the peculiar characteristic of spring back. I understand about belted cases; I also know that the belt is/was nothing more than a marketing ploy, and belted cases partially-sized while staying off the shoulder go right back in the rifle they came out of.

Now, having said all that, I would not hesitate to load my Magnums on my Piggyback II if I needed a couple hundred rounds; I just don't shoot them that much. Not throwing rocks at the Hornady, Dillon, Redding, or any of the other... I just got started with RCBS, have learned my Piggyback II and how to make it run like a sewing machine, and I will stay with it.

Doubtless
You sound like a fine reference for them. thanks! I'll keep my eye out for a kit on the market .. and might even give it a try again

The only issue is that it costs so damn much! Almost as much as just buying one straight out.

Since there are a bunch of fans of the lock and load here, am I the only one who gets a couple thousandths variation case to case using the LNL, that I don't get from my RCBS single stage or Dillon 550? I get almost the same variance with the 650 or the 1050 dillons, but with the handgun calibers, the accuracy is better than I can test. With the LNL (which was a single stage) I sometimes would get .008 case to case variance. Hornady did not reply to my email requesting guidance, so I boxed it up and just figure my set up time is longer and use the RCBS- but if there is some secret handshake I don't know about I will use the thing...

quote:

Originally posted by NEJack:
After spending way to much time handloading .45ACP with my single stage press, I am thinking of moving up to a progressive press.

Since cost is a big factor, my first thought was to go with the Lee press at about $150. I would prefer either the low end Dillion or the Hornady, but that might not be able to get passed my wife.

Is there anything wrong with the Lee progressive press? I would hate to buy it, only to replace it in a few years.

In an attempt to maintain your marital bliss, get the Lee Press. Mst guys find that it does the job well. It isn't as pretty as the Dillon, but it does work. All progressives require adjustments to get them working properly. Once you get the Lee adjusted properly, it will crank out thousands of rounds equal to the Dillon or Hornady.

I know nothing of LNL or RCBS, or Lee, so can't comment on them. I have delt with all on warranty, and they all stand behind product very well, in fact I would have to say they are excellent. I do own a Square Deal B, and 2, 550's. I have never loaded anything but Ball Powders, Never Had a powder bar stick.I load for 6 handguns, and 4 rifles, I have a different powder bar for each caliber, and the only time I adjust is when I change lots of powder.The bars seem to be very consistent to me, and never vary more than 10%. The auto indexing is nice on the Square Deal, but I don't seem to miss it on the 550's. Just remember, that you usually get what you pay for, so keep in mind how many rounds you are going to load over you lifetime. Progressives all work, and everybody has an opinion. Get what best fits your needs and budget.

quote:

Originally posted by Hector:
I know nothing of LNL or RCBS, or Lee, so can't comment on them. I have delt with all on warranty, and they all stand behind product very well, in fact I would have to say they are excellent. I do own a Square Deal B, and 2, 550's. I have never loaded anything but Ball Powders, Never Had a powder bar stick.I load for 6 handguns, and 4 rifles, I have a different powder bar for each caliber, and the only time I adjust is when I change lots of powder.The bars seem to be very consistent to me, and never vary more than 10%. The auto indexing is nice on the Square Deal, but I don't seem to miss it on the 550's. Just remember, that you usually get what you pay for, so keep in mind how many rounds you are going to load over you lifetime. Progressives all work, and everybody has an opinion. Get what best fits your needs and budget.

That is the mind set you need to have!

This is a correction on my earlier post. I said did not vary 10%, what I should have said was does not vary by 1/10th of a Gr. Sorry for my error.

quote:

Originally posted by Hector:
This is a correction on my earlier post. I said did not vary 10%, what I should have said was does not vary by 1/10th of a Gr. Sorry for my error.

Thought that's what you meant.

I got a Dillon SDB that has loaded in excess of 100,000 rounds of 45 acp.

It has a "Forever" no BS warranty.

Actually, I got five of them, looks like a row of blue robots.

Rich

Damn, Idaho! How much that stet you back? I've been thinking about those, just my normal places to shop do not carry Dillon.

I had 5 square deals at one time. they all went up in a fire. I know a couple of them had over a million rounds loaded on them. One had been rebuilt by dillon 3 times and was ready for it again. They WILL stand behind there products. Suer there not as stout as a 550 650 or lnl but there darned good little presses that will put out ammo as fast as a lnl or 650 with a case feeder. the short stroke on them is very fast. If dillon made a case feeder for a sd it would be the fastest loading press on the market. Thing is after all these opinions in this post is your going to get a decent press whether you go dillon or hornady. If you want reliablility go with the 550 as its manual index is just less to go wrong. If you want to use a case feeder id go dillon as the hornday case feeder doesnt hold a candle to a dillon. It works but isnt near as reliable. the hornady has two weakness in my opinion. the case feeder and the indexing system. the 650 has two also. the powder measure and the goofy priming system. the 550 weakness are the measure again and its definately slower. Want the best and have some money its the 1050 hands down but it has two weaknesses too. Again the powder measure and its a job to switch calibers and works best as a machine set up in one caliber and left alone. You want cheap and fast get a square deal. Again measures suck, its a bit more of job to swap calibers but not that bad. I wont load rifle and you cant use your own dies and its not as stout as the others but it sure will crank out lots of good ammo. Now if i could design my own press it would have the 550s primer feed on a 650 with a case feeder and a hornady powder measures and i personaly prefer the hornady die swappin set up as if you break a decapping pin or want to clean a die you can just snap out that one die. Or if loading .223s or 308s switch from small base dies for the ar to normal dies for the bolt gun is just a matter of snapping out one die and snapping in another. Now if theyd just redesign there single stage lnl so that dies adusted for the progressive would be the same setting as they are for the single stage.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I got a Dillon SDB that has loaded in excess of 100,000 rounds of 45 acp.

It has a "Forever" no BS warranty.

Actually, I got five of them, looks like a row of blue robots.

Rich