I don't know if you are going to find these books at a much reduced price. Whatever you pay, it is money well spent. They have a great deal of information. I am constantly using my copies for reloading information and as a reference.
quote:Originally posted by Nebraska: Where's the best place $-wise to get this book? Also, is there a certain edition to be looking for?
Thanks.
I went thru this about a month ago. I think Cabela's, and maybe one or two other mail order places listed them for around $30, but they were either out of stock, or, were selling an older edition. I ended up calling the publisher and getting the newest edition, plus the newest update. $50.
Go to http://www.riflemagazine.com/ and look around. They're the publishers of the "Pet Loads" series. Got the latest one for Christmas - I think it's 1200 pages or so. It's great reading.
R-WEST
------------------ "the spotlight of truth will cause the cockroaches of deceit to run for cover every time" Rush Limbaugh
Posts: 1483 | Location: Windber, PA | Registered: 24 January 2001
I have that set and I never looked at it again or refered to it. To me Ken Waters will test some rifle and go off on a tangent like that is the only rifle in that caliber and all of them must be like that.
I would rather have the new Nosler handbook or even #4. The book Wildcat Cartridges by Wolfe is interesting.
Waters is deeply concerned with getting the most accuracy from his reloads, and in my First Edition of his book the charts are carefully annotated to comment both on pressures and accuracy.
Personally, I think his work is invaluable and ought to be more known and used than it is....
I am just back from the basement with my copy of Ken Water's Pet Loads. It's got mildue on the inside covers and the binder rings are rusty. As I said I never used it again. I read the piece on the .358 Winchester and Waters likes the caliber on a theoretical basis. There is no evidence that he ever really carried a .358 Win in the woods.
He could not get the rifle to group so he sent it back to Stoeger to be reworked and the set triggers taken off.
He has no use for the 180 gr bullet which is my favorite.
So I could add that Ken Waters writes articles about rifle calibers that he does not know much about. I could add that I do the same thing. In Waters case he is charging money for it but it's entertaining reading.
Waters also says that bullets of 165 grs and up at 2200 to 2500 fps deflect less in brush so the .358 is better in brush for that reason. This is wrong. The cartridge may do well in brush but not for the reason he gives.
[This message has been edited by Don Martin29 (edited 05-23-2002).]
quote:So I could add that Ken Waters writes articles about rifle calibers that he does not know much about.
So, unless you've carried the rifle in the woods, you don't know anything about it? What about a guy who shoots a .308 Win. 2,000 times a year in practice and target matches, but hunts with a .270? Does he not know anything about the .308?
I think you're selling Waters a little short; if nothing else, he provides another source of data.
R-WEST
Posts: 1483 | Location: Windber, PA | Registered: 24 January 2001
Don Martin, why don't you give your copy of "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters to Nebraska? He is looking for an inexpensive copy (free is inexpensive) and you don't use your copy.
My copy of Waters book is the second edition dated 1980 and most of the articles in the book are dated from the 1960 and and 1970's. None are newer.
Will someone quote something from this book that helped them load better ammunition? Even one comment would surprise me. The book is nothing but a rambling story book of one cartridge at a time. They are just reprints from old magazines. I would never consider this a "reference" book.
I have had emails offering to buy my book. It was on the floor in the crawl space getting damp for 20 years. Now it's up here next to the computer. I am having too much fun with it right now. I think I will loan it to a buddy who is into historical stuff.
If Ken Waters is reading this I still am waiting for my letter to you to be answered! It's the letter challanging you to a position rifle match. You said that the 40X Remington was unsuitable for position target shooting. I am ready for your reply Ken. Still waiting after all these years.
[This message has been edited by Don Martin29 (edited 05-24-2002).]
Never one to do things the easy way, especially when there's a harder way that that gives you the thrill of feeling you're one up on everybody else, I made my own Pet Loads book by photocopying the articles from my magazine collection and assembling them in a loose leaf binder. Saved the price of the book, and it only cost me about $200 in labor and copying! Kind of like reloading to save money isn't it?
Anyway, I find Ken's articles very useful, taking into account that he usually uses only one gun to work up his loads. Therefore, whatever conclusions he reaches are only directly applicable to that one unique gun. For a few calibers, he may try two or even three guns, and this gives a little broader indication of the applicability of the loads. Ken has his prejudices just like the rest of us, but always did a pretty good job of sorting out what was based on data and what was based on preference.
Posts: 13243 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
I have the latest version of Pet Loads (something like 1000 pages) and find it very good for late night relaxation, entertainment. It is a decent additional source for comparing load information as well. The only downsides in my opinion are that Ken seems to be somewhat conservative in his loadings. It could be because of the particular rifle/pistol he is testing or the older/faster powders he used. And, since many of the articles are very old, there are many new powders which perform much better and at lower pressures than the ones he tested with. My two cents. Bait.
Posts: 487 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 07 December 2001
Will someone quote something from this book that helped them load better ammunition?
Yeah.......here you go. Read the section on how to detetmine relative pressure by measuring case expansion at the web. Much beter than loading until the primer falls out, the bolt freezes or the action (ie. lever action) stretches. Wouldn't that qualify as "Better ammunition" ??
One of the things I learned as a youngster was, to know when to listen. Ken Waters has forgotten more than most of us know about guns and reloading. He may not appeal to you. You may not like his style. But he can teach you something if you would take the time to listen!
So, how many books and articals have you published on the subject???
Posts: 813 | Location: Left Coast | Registered: 02 November 2000
Haven't read a thing by Ken Waters since 1993 when I wrote him a letter in 1991 asking about H322 with a 300 grain Barnes X bullet for a little Wildcat I had made off the 350 Rem mag called the 416/350 Rem mag. 2 years later in 1993, Ken has a new miracle cartridge out called the 416 Express. The 416 caliber bullet in 335 grain with a GC made by Beartooth Bullets is the bullet that was designed for the little 416/350 Rem mag. You can also get some info about this 416 Express of Marshall's website forums. Look under wildcat cartridges and the thread about powders for the 416 Express.
Posts: 1058 | Location: Lodge Grass, MT. Sitka, Bethel, Fort Yukon, Chevak, Skagway, Cantwell and Pt. Hope Alaska | Registered: 24 June 2000
