All of you...

Do anyone now the twist-rate in my .222 Rem Sako L461 Vixen? I have trouble achieving high velocity and tight groups with the 60 grs Nosler Partition.

Do anyone have experience in reloading this combination? Data??

Hope you can help me out, Thanks!

Pete

[ 06-12-2002, 21:19: Message edited by: .358PCAK ]

Pete I suspect that the twist is 1-14" and that is way to slow for the 22rem if you wanna use the 60 graisn bullets! but you already know!

Regards

Mads

Sako 222's are 1 in 14 twist, which doesn't cut it with 60gr bullets. Drop back to 55's and you'll improve accuracy and pick up velocity at the same time. I don't shoot anything heavier than 50 in my 222's.

Thanks for information about the rate of twist!

I guess you are right about the 60 grs bullet, craigster. The issue is though, that I several times have achieved excellent performance with 53 and 55 grs bullets(Sierra HPBT and Hornady V-Max) in my rifle. My goal isn�t bench rest accuracy with the 60 grs Nosler, just a good load for roe deer hunting here in Norway.

In a rifle whit 1-14� twist, at what velocity can I achieve groups at 20 � 30 mm with the Nosler?

Maybe I should rechamber the Sako into a 223?

Any suggestion for a 50-55 grs good performance bullet in .224 for small sized deer?

Pete

Mads; you "danske drenger" should keep on "kicking some buts" in the World Cup. Well done so far

Rather than rechamber to 223 (you'll still have the same twist), you could rebarrel to 223 with a slower twist (7"-10"). Then you could use the heavier bullets on your small deer. But then you wouldn't have your 222 anymore. A perfect reason to buy another new rifle!

Try the Barnes X bullets in the 55(?) grain version and I think you'll be happy. I've seen deer on a buddy's video being just hammered by this bullet out of a .223. The accuracy and velocity should be adequate for this bullet in the .222 also.

Another bullet that holds together and quite often exits on coyotes is the 55gr. Sierra GameKing. When I lived in Ariz. I used it in a 222Sako and also a 22/250 for javlina (35-45lbs.) and never had a blowup. Pete

Pete I'll see what we can do! I think that we have 50 -%0 against the English!

What kind of groups are you getting with the 60 grains NP's? And yes I think that they will be a very good bullet for roe deer to!

You could consider the 55 grains Trophy bonded or teh x-bullet 50 or 45 grains - what is the smallest bullet weight that you are aloved to use in Norway?

I wouldn't rechamber it! Rather rebarrel it as Craigster said - but give the others bullets a try first!

Regards

Mads

Tried the 50 grains Barnes X a few years ago in my Sako in 222 Rem - didn't hit a 50x50cm square at 80 meters. Switched to a much larger piece of paper and could finally se holes in it - some 50-80 cm apart.... This with a gun that shoots 11mm groups with Sierras 55 grain Game King THe 45 grains Barnes X shoot very good but aren't legal for roedeer in Sweden
K9

Hello .358PCAK:

I have measured the twistrate i my Vixen 222rem and its 1-14". I have tried several different bullets and have very good results with the 55 grain Hornady SP for roedeer and the 50 grain Hornady SPSX for crows/fox. Both is loaded with 22,0 grain N133. In my rifle they have same POI and groupsize (5 shot/100meters)is 10-12 mm if i do my part of the job and barrel is clean.
Groupsize grows to about 40-60 mm with 60 grainers, but with Norma 4,0g (63 grain SP) factory ammo it holds a group around 18-20 mm ?!

My neighbour uses the 60 grain partition in his rifle with 1-14" twist and his best groups are around 2" but it drops roedeers on the spot.

I asked the exact same question about rechambering to 223 and got a lot of reposts advicing me not to and now i'm glad i didnt.

Stig

I own a Steyr with short bbl and regular stock in .222. It shoots 5 shots of anything under an inch from field rests. Never tried benching.

Problem is its a 1:14. Why the hell did Nosler not choose 55 grs for its Partition???

Will eventually try the Barnes X, but they are costly and I�ve heard things about their accuracy ...

Hermann

Sheister, I have already tried the 55 grs Barnes X. The bullet did a very good job on the roe deer, but it was difficult the achieve tight groups, and I had some hard work to clean the barrel inside(I just hate that!!!). The best groups was 50 � 60 mm, and that�s way to bad for a 222. I thought the reason was the rate of twist, and decided to try the 45(?) grain X with coating. That was a disaster: I could barely hit a football from the bench at 100 meters.

Pete in Idaho and K9, Maybe I should try the GameKing, all though I�m a little bit skeptic to conventional bullets in small caliber for roe deer.

Why I am talking of rechamber my rifle is that a 223 will be able to drive the Nosler at higher velocity and maybe then the 1-14� could stabilize?

Mads, I get groups at 60 �75 mm with normal pressure, and round 40 � 50 mm if add a little more powder.

Hey Stig, why is that 63 grs Norma factory load that good? Maybe I should get a package of those and change the original 63 grs with a 60 Nosler? I can contribute to your neighbor�s experience when it comes to the Nosler and roe deer

Pete

Hermann, agree with you about the 55 grs Nosler. Maybe they see a bigger marked in all 22-250 � shooters??

I wouldn�t use to much time and money on those 22 Barnes X bullets if I was you

Pete

I have shot a lot of deer and antelope with the 60 gr. Hornady in my L-461 222 and a Rem 722 and they sure do kill well and get complete penitration...grps run about 1" and thats good enough for big game...the same guns shoot sub 1/2" with 40 gr. and 50 Gr. Bal. tips...

Thanks for responding Ray!

What kind of, and how much powder do you use behind that 60 grs Hornady?
You to have that original 1-14� barrel?

Pete

358PCAK,

I too have a box of 40 60gr partitions left after trying them in my sako 222rem. They just won't stabilise.

I use the 55gr Sierra Gameking at 3000fps and allthough I haven't been to Scotland yet to stalk roe a friend of mine has used this exact combination and swears by it.

Gentlemen

I�m afraid I have to admit that I bought another box of those dammed 60 grs Nosler today. Let me try just one more box�

Pete

The only deer I ever shot with a 222 was with a 50 grain remington factory load and it destroyed a chunk of spine and threw chunks out the other side. I like either of Hornady 60 grain bullets and have used their 55 grain soft point also. These bullets hold together well enough. Stability is a function of length and the X bullets are long as are partitions due to the extra jacket material. The 63 grain Sierra semi spitzer could be just what your looking for. Truth is though never look a gift horse in the mouth, that excuse for a new rifle is a strong call.

I guess you�ll all right about the need for a new rifle. Perhaps a 22-250 with 1-12� will be the perfect combo for the 60 grs Nosler for a small deer rifle? I will follow those advices for the 55 grs Sierra bullet(and other 50 � 55 grs sp bullets)

Pete

For Roe deer I would use a bullet that holds together a little better: Sierra 55 with cannelure, the Spitzer without boattail. Also Nosler BT, as the base is quite strong. A 55 grs Interlock from Hornady, but I think in .22 its no Interlock? Cannelure and flat base. Norma makes a 60 grs SP load, will try that.

Hermann

I don't think you have to go to 22-250 with all the noise and blast that that entails!

Try the 55gr sierra gameking or the 63gr norma factory load which I hear great things about.

If you really want to shoot the 60gr nosler then a 223 (standard sporting twist of 12)would be just the ticket BUT resale value in Sweden would be low? (No norma ammunition)Alternatively rebarrel your 222rem to a 12 twist.

I think you can try the 55 grain sierra GK without having to worry about anything! I've used that bullet on ten or so roebucks (and a few other roedeer and other critters) and most of the time it has exited leaving a good enough bloodtrail in the few instances when the hit animal didn't drop on the spot! I've used it from 25-225 meters - no bullet failure so far! Well, it didn't exit on, I think, two shots - one headshot at about 25m and one shot in the spine also at close range (roebuck facing me). I've shot through shoulders with it and have gotten exits even then. Eventhough I've used it with success I can't help feeling that the 222 (and its likes) is on the verge of beeing adequate for the job...???
Good luck!
K9

I use a Sako75, a .222 Remington. That rifle has a 14" twist. I have no problems stabilizing 62grain Norma SP bullets, which I load with 19.6gr Norma 200 and Federal primers.

That load, in my rifle, has no problems in achieving 4-shot groups below 15mm at 100m, and I haven't even started improving that load yet.

I just can't figure this handloading stuff, it drives me nuts. A truth in one rifle is a bad joke in another. I'm not saying that you people are wrong when you say a 60gr bullet won't stabilize... I just say it will, in my rifle....

The load works great for roe deer, and it is actually a copy of Norma's factory loaded 222's. I just extend the OAL somewhat to fit my rifle better.

Regards
/HerrBerg

It is not the weight but the length of the bullet that usually causes stabilization problems. Not all 60 grain bullets are the same length. Early 6mm. Remington rifles had 1in 12 inch twist, would not always stabalize 100gr. bullets. Was changed to 1in9, problem solved. 358CPAK try a heavy [60gr. or so].223 bullet with a semi point, they are shorter and might stabilize in your gun.

Norma�s 62 grain SP is indeed short and stubby, for its weight.

Regards,
/HerrBerg

Thanks!

Hermann, what�s a cannelure As you have seen for yourself there are several people on this board whom recommends the 55 grs Sierra � that is the Game King. And I think I will follow your and the others advice�s about that.

1894, I will try that 63 grs Norma factory load, and maybe � as I�ve wrote before, exit the 63 grs SP and replace a 60 Nosler. I�ve been thinking of rebarreling my Sako into a .223 with 1-10� twist, but not before the .222 � barrel is pass�.

K9, interesting to read about your experiences with the 55 grs Sierra Game King. I will defiantly buy a box of those. I share your opinion about the 222 marginal for roe deer, and I find the 6,5 mm more suited. Nevertheless, I find it fun to take a roebuck or two a year with a nice little 222. Actually the 222 is my all-round rifle. I use it for roe deer(Nosler), fox(Hornady V-Max), bob cat(Nosler), beaver(V-Max) and competition(Sierra MK Moly)

HerrBerg, It�s my knowledge for the differences in loads and rifles who has driven my to start this topic. That is also the reason for why I bought another box of 60 grs Nosler the other day. I won�t be beaten by only one box of Noslers

Thanks for the tip, NE 450 No 2, I guess you are right about the length of the bullet, but just partly. I measured bullet length this morning and discovered that the 55 grs V-Max was o,5 mm longer than the 60 grs Nosler, and the V-Max is the bullet which I�ve had the tightest groups: 3 shot in 7 mm at 100 m in my Sako. Yes, I know I can cut of the plastic tip and then the V-Max will be shorter, but I still believe stabilizing a bullet is a matter of rate of twist, velocity, weight, length and shape, and maybe length is among the most important issues.

I will start some reloading (the 222) this week, and I`ll keep you all updated. Please continue replying this topic � its very valuable

Pete

Cannelure ? Spelling? A groove around the bullet for crimping. I meant it will ( to some degree ) prevent slipping of the core. It doesn�t strenghten the jacket, just to the contrary, but it could work as a point where the jacket breaks, leaving ( hopefully ) some lead and jacket at the rear together.

Hermann

BTW I have shot some Roe deer ( and some varmints ) with .222 and Hirtenberg 55 grs Nosler Solid base. Thats one of the better Hirtenberg factory loads, can recommend it highly.

Hermann

Thanks for lighten me up, Hermann

Pete

I believe you can get 55 grain trophy bonded bear claws in .22 caliber now.

Ok, I admit it: I’m crazy, but hell its fun...

Yesterday I started a new project: The Nosler 5P. That is the “Nosler Partition Protected Point Private Project”(Yea, you can add some more Ps if its suitable). First of all; those 60 grs Nosler bullets doesn’t weight 60 grs according to my equipment, but 59. The “project” is about reducing the weight and shortening the bullet, simply by cutting of the led tip. You then got a nice stubby bullet with a tip very much like Normas fabulous Oryx. The length are reduced from 20 to 18 mm and the bullet weight are reduced to 57,6 grs – all of them. I guess the BC are a bit reduced too, but it doesn’t matter since I very seldom have a long distance shot. I also picked out the cases with biggest case capacity. I guess I start some reloading tonight. I will test velocity, accuracy and bullet performance. Ill give you all a complete “project report”.

The crazy Pete

358PCAK,

Sounds fun! But I'm not convinced that the partition is actualy necessary for continental hunting of roe with broadside shots.

In contrast to your labours my 55gameking load was arrived at by measuring the jump to the lands and loading 3 sets of 5 rounds in half grain increments up to max published load with H322 in new brass. The max load went slightly under half an inch for 3 and that was that!

I personaly would try the Norma 63gr bullets in component form if I could get them.

.358PCAK,

I am not at home now and off the top of my head, I use 55grn Speer SP for roe over 25grns of BL(C)-2 which is quite a moderate load. It works superb on Roe with minimal meat damage unlikel Nosler BT in this caliber. It will print honest 2/3" groups out of my Ruger Allweather. I really don't think you need a premium bullet of any description for roe. When i get home i will double check my data and edit if required...

Regards,

Peter

Thanks for your contribution Pete E

I�ve registered that a lot of you guys stick to conventional bullets, and have no need for a premium bullet like the Nosler for roe in the 222. I have two demands for a bullet for roe in 222: The bullet should exit on every broad side shot and the meat damage modest.

Pete

I use 60gr Hornady HP's w/ 25gr. or H335 in a Rem. 788 w/1@12 twist and get 1 in groups. My mini 14 w/the same powder and a 60gr Part. gets 1.5 in groups at 100yds. but the twist is 1 in 9. Go figure. These were worked up in these rifles, don't use them unless you work them up. In E Texas the Deer are small and the bullets work well when you place your shots in their head.
If I can't get a good shot I don't take it. There may be another day?

Patrick,

I am not sure i would class Aberdeed easily accessable, but thats where our lease is! In fact I am heading up there for the weekend later today

.358PCAK,

The Speer gives the kinda performance you want; what ever you do stay alway from hollowpoints and Balistic Tip as the meat damage can be pretty bad. I would think any conventional SP at 50grn or 55grn would do the trick of Roe...I have never really found them tough on bullets.

Regards,

Peter

Friends,
I have an Anschutz 1533 222 stutzen that loves 50/55grs bullets, less than 1cm group. The load is 19.1/19.2grs of IMR4198, I still have a can of it
I don'use 222R for hunting, in Italy is not permitted and in Hungary is normal to do long shots, and for this i use 6.5x55Se or 7x64Brenneke, but I saw an about 150meters shot on a roe deer, using a Nosler Ballistic Tip. Well the result were in line with your wishes, no big meat damage and bullet exit hitting the chest.
Hope that this help. Is it possible for a foreign hunt in Norway? Have you some suggestion?
thank you very much in advance,
bye

Hi Stefano, and thanks for your reply!

This is not the topic, but I allow my self to do this - once :

There are lots of possibilities concerning hunts in Norway. Moose, deer, reindeer and roe deer is the most common big game, but you can also hunt different kind of small game, but the populations are not so great as in lots of other countries. You can either contact a bureau for a trip, or you can get to know a person with his own private property (I have by the way ) and suggest an exchange.

I give you a link to a web page where my company presents some fish and hunt products. Still unfortunately only in Norwegian language (except some of the salmon rivers).

www.jakt-fiske-fritid.com

Take care
Pete

I see a some of you guys are from Norway or Sweden. Buy any chance do you have a good source for 5.6x50R brass? I would prefer RWS but price is more important. Hirtenberger brass is $64.00 per 100 at Huntingtons, but is there somewhere that is cheaper?
Richard